back country vehicles, and many questions

[John Dough]

I work in New York City, (Bob's favorite place in the world, I'm sure).<br><br>I have a 1996 Dodge Ram, and 2 Labradors.<br><br>I'm thinking of camping out West on my vacation with the dogs, but I'm slightly worried about traveling in a dark green van in mid-summer, with the 2 dogs. So I've been looking on your blog for info.<br><br>One of my favorite pastimes is motorcycle camping, because it's cheap on gas, and it forces me to bring the absolute minimum. <br><br>Last year I went to the Smoky Mountains, the Ozarks, Texas, Yellowstone, Sturgis SD, on a 6000+ mile trip. Not much intentional offroading.<br><br>This year, or next year I want to do national forest and BLM camping.<br><br>Do you think a street motorcycle could make it to the same back country, that a van could? I have a Honda VFR750, and a Harley wide Glide.<br><br>I've been looking at 4x4 vans too. They're pricey, but how do they compare to a long wheelbase GM van, or an shorter wheelbase but extended Econoline? Seems it would be easier to high center the long wheelbase GM van, or scrape the back end of an extended Econoline.<br><br>Does anyone wish they had 4x4, or does it not matter too much?<br><br>I know these are random unrelated questions, but i'm trying to figure out what to do out of many options.<br><br>Thanks, this is an awesome blog.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>

 

[minimotos95]

welcome.<br>

<span id="post_message_1278683991">Do you think a street motorcycle could make it to the same back country, that a van could? I have a Honda VFR750, and a Harley wide Glide</span>

<br>it depends on how good of a rider you are, your tires and ground clearance. i have seen vstroms do stuff i would be worried about doing on a trail bike.. the harley would probably a worse choice then the vfr but on the vfr you have to worry about breaking the fairings. <br>i would say with a good(about 5 years of offroad and road experience) rider a street bike is equivalent to a lifted 2wd van. except the bike can go on single track.<br><br>the think to worry about with street bikes offroad is the tires, they make "dual sport tires" for street bikes, they aren't great on the road and don't last as long as normal tires but they are the only ones that can take the abuse of rocks, thorns, and impacts<br><br>i would suggest a smaller enduro or dual sport for the purpose, they are easier to ride offroad and built to take the punishment <br>something like a drz400 or wr250r which are basically modern dirtbikes that are 50 state legal with lights and e-start and can still cruise on the highway<br>but once again if you are a insanely good rider you can take just about any bike anywhere<br><br id="tinymce" class="mceContentBody ">my philosophy about offroading 4 wheeled vehicles is 2wd will get you anywhere you should go but if it turns to mud when it's time to leave you better have chains and/or 4wd to get out. <br>i can't speak on the ground clearance and angles of the american vans but i'm sure someone knows.<br><br><br>edit: just did some research the dyna wide glide uses a 21" front wheel which is the standard size for dirtbikes. but it's still 680lbs wet.

 

[John Dough]

Brandon, thanks for the answers, that was very useful information in helping me decide.<br><br>BTW For a time i drove a Mitsubishi box van on a job, I loved it, that thing went forever on a tank of gas, was skinny enough to zip through traffic, was light and peppy, and big enough so that you could lay down in the back.<br><br>I tried to look for one recently, or something similar, to me that would be a perfect road trip/vandwelling vehicle, considering it's great fuel economy.<br><br>I've seen little micro vans in Europe and South America, which are pretty neat. Sadly, nobody makes anything like it any more for the US market. <br><br>

 

[James AKA Lynx]

If you can afford the 4x4's it would be best for you to drive the backwoods. A Lot of people do not know how to drive and get into trouble. <br><br>I alot of people use their vans as a metal tent. Much better in weather. Your choice.<br><br>James AKA Lynx

 

[RJCooper]

For my style and I am pretty backwoods in that I could live off of trapping alone.&nbsp; My vehicle of choice is 3/4 ton extended&nbsp;4x4 with a cap.&nbsp; I sleep in a tent, the truck hauls my gear.&nbsp; From food, water,&nbsp;power needs, fish rods (8), guns, canoe, kayak, clothes, foot wear, dry goods (4 bins), kitchen gear, traps and tools, etc.&nbsp; If I need to I make a stop at my storage unit and can get either a pop-up to pull which is hardly ever or a 4x6 enclosed trailer which is more for work or long trips from home base area.&nbsp; <br><br>I have all my lifes needs in the truck at all times, plus a canoe and kayak on top.&nbsp; I custom built my top out of wood and coated it with truck under coating.&nbsp; If you have seen the contractor caps with the tool boxes on the sides of the cap?&nbsp; Well mine is similar, but the boxes open on the inside.&nbsp; All my tote (bins) are 8" below the bottom of the tool box.&nbsp; I do handyman stuff or contract myself out to contractors on a daily basis, so I need my tools.&nbsp; However, with this set up if no tools were needed the boxes could carry a ton of other stuff.&nbsp; The 3/4 ton doesn't even squat loaded.&nbsp; All my clothes and important person stuff, stay behind the seat in backpacks or duffle bags.&nbsp; Organization and being able to keep it that way is key.&nbsp; With no one but me to touch things, I know where ever thing is. Unless a) I am camped in a private site and I hit the beer and Jim Beam or b) I partake with some hippies.&nbsp; <img class="emoticon bbc_img" src="/images/boards/smilies/wink.gif">

 

[Malibusurfer]

4x4 vans are very expensive unless you can settle on a older model... You would be surprised what a rear locker can do for you. Darn near get everywhere a 4by can get at much less $$.

 

[offroad]

And with offroad experience knowledge to air-down your tires. Bring a come along winch and some tree savers. Your should be able to unstick yourself with ease.

 

[masterplumber]

While I personally have a 4x4 truck and a KLR motorcycle that get me anywhere I'm liable to want to go, I've taken a Ford extended van on more dirt roads in Colorado and Utah than I can count. I used to teach Adventure Leadership at a private school for a couple years. We'd take the kids backpacking, mountaineering, and technical canyoneering on the weekends. As you can imagine most of the approach roads were dirt and sometimes somewhat technical. While there were times we drug a hitch, or had to dig some sand out from under and put rocks under the wheels, we never had to walk for help and in fact often helped others less fortunate. this was with an early 2000s Ford 15 passenger van, with 15 people in it, towing a 6x12 cargo trailer many times. Of course having the perfect equipment for the job is always preferable, but with careful driving and a willingness to stop or turn around if the track becomes more than your comfortable with, I'd use what you have and save your money for traveling.
As for street bikes on the dirt, my son used to have a 600 Bandit and it was more stable on gravel than my KLR due to it's lower center of gravity. If you're not interested in the really rocky and rough stuff your street bikes will be fine as long as you're careful.
Now take this with a grain of salt, I grew up chasing my aunt and uncle's desert race bug with a totally stock Ford Courier so I'd consider myself very experienced, but not an expert. Just remember to enjoy the journey, the vehicles are just tools to get you there.

 

[Blue]

have a revcon trailblazer... I used this in alaska for three years...

http://www.fourdoorbronco.com/board/showthread.php?5788-Ebay-1994-REVCON-TrailBlazer-4x4

it was too big, got terrible gas milage, and drew WAY too much attention. thats why I'm shifting to a dodge caravan now, and I rent this thing out to guys who need someplace to live in-town. It was awesome, but I wouldent do it again in that thing.

 

[Simran]

My 1 ton van with a hi top is so heavy that I've never had an issue with it. I've been in some pretty rough places too. In the snow even. The most important thing is to just remember what your driving and learn its limitations. The limitations of a 2 wheel drive van with weight in it are much less than a 4 wheel drive van in 2 wheel drive. I am a firm believer in 2 wheel drive vehicles. JMHO!

 

[signman]

Country boy locker: use your parking brake partially applied to fool the rear axle into thinking the load on the rear axle is even, (side to side), It will pull with both wheels, not just spin one. This comes from many years as a land surveyor working out of 2 wheel drive trucks.

It is well worth a try, use this trick before you dig yourself in too deep, and Don't forget to release the parking break when you get out of the tight spot. Do Not leave the break on just because it looks ruff, us it only when you need it. Works well with "air your tires down" for more traction. Duane

 

[Trekking]

Are you guys using standard van tires or are you using a more aggressive rear tires for off road in your vans. I wonder if tire chains on the van rear tires would help during the spring and fall going off road.

 

[Simran]

I use standard highway tread 8 ply tires on my van winter & summer. I tried to find some used chains for my van when I first got it but couldn't. New for 16" wheels is expensive but probably good insurance.

 

[Bdog1]

Although my EB Ford is 4x4, I have noticed weight bias front to back is surprisingly even. Much better than a pick-up truck. I think 2wd gets you 99% of places.

 

[akrvbob]

On anything but snow and ice, airing down your tires is the single best thing you can do. A 2x4 with aired down tires will often beat a 4x4 with full tires. Obviously you need to carry a 12 volt compressor.

I had a buddy bury his 4x4 Doge Cummins in the sand and he couldn't get out. He took the valve cores out and was at ZERO air pressure and drove (very slowy!) right out. When he got off the sand he put the core back in, aired up, and drove away. That was 6 months and no harm done.

Airing down is MOST IMPORTANT.
Bob

 

[Simran]

Bobs right here letting air out is fruitless in the snow

 

[signman]

I definately would not take the cores out,

#1 very easy to loose the core, then what are you gonna' do?

#2 too easy to loose the bead, you don't want to have to reseat a bead off road.

#3 driving with the rim on the tire with no air in it will probably ruin the tires

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Dropping the air pressure down to 10 - 15 pounds will work much better. Do Not let all the air out, your just asking for problems

 

[akrvbob]

Signman

#1 very easy to loose the core, then what are you gonna' do?
Experienced Jeepers always carry extras. You throw a bunch of them in with the compressor with all your tire gear.

#2 too easy to loose the bead, you don't want to have to reseat a bead off road.
Not if your going 2 mpg on sand for 50 feet. If it does, you get unstuck, put on the spare, and go to a shop and spend $10 to get it put back on. But you saved $100s on a tow bill!

#3 driving with the rim on the tire with no air in it will probably ruin the tires
It honestly won't if your going 2 mpg on sand for 50 feet. Todays tires are better than that.

They were remote and there only option was spending $100s for a tow. They had already dropped the tires to 10 psi and that didn't work. Actually there is never zero pressure in the tire, even without the cores there is a few pounds. My buddy knows more about this stuff than anyone I've ever know. He's seen and done it all. If he says it's okay for 50 feet with no cores, then that's good enough for me.

Of course I understand that you don't know him so it's reasonable you wouldn't agree.

 

[signman]

Never had the need to remove the valve cores in twenty years of land surveying in the sugar sand of Florida or the red clay of north Georgia. I've also owned 5 Jeeps and 2 tractor tired 2 wheel drive swamp buggies (kinda like a working version of the Naples swamp buggie racers) among many other vehicles.

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Land Surveyors work in some very remote places, with no tow trucks that are capable of making it to where we were, and no one likely to come by as we weren't even on roads. I surveyed for remote, cross swamp power lines.

 

[offroad]

If you want to get expensive and fancy you can buy BEAD LOCKER RIMS where you bolt the bead to the rim physically. You can air down to zero and that tire is not coming off.

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For entertainment look up videos of FIRE BEAD TIRE RESEATING. It's a trick to get the bead to reseat when it's loose on your rim and you can not air up.