Are my batteries toast?

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How will you charge a 24v battery? your 100w solar is set up for 12v. Your truck is set up for 12v. Even your systems are 12v. It isn't hard to goo from 24v DOWN to 12v. It's getting the 12v UP to 24v that is harder. Also, the cooler the battery tech ( lipo, AGM) the more you need to understand about the care and feeding of them. Many get away with basic batteries, basic solar and basic chargers for years. Yes their batteries don't last as long as they would if they were coddled and cared for perfectly, but there is a balance in the lower cost and simplicity.

Honestly before you buy new batteries, you need to sort out the issues that ruined your last set. Otherwise you will ruin another set. That is if they are ruined. Put them on the ground in front of the truck with cables for a while, get them plugged in on a charger somewhere, even take them to a auto store where they will charge and test them. They may not be 100% of new but they may not be ruined either.
 
Good point about 12v vs 24v charging. I know diddly about this kind of thing.


Sternwake says not to bother with my current batteries since the acid is not clear.
 
Not sure how I ruined the batteries... aside from not attending to them quickly. I just don't get the reasoning behind the 12 or 14 gage wire used by the rv place that installed the system. Probably just trying to save money by using cheaper wire but for $1300 you would hope they'd do a better job.

I think I will take Jims advice and try to recharge / save my batteries by charging them with some jumper cables off my engine. Couldn't hurt.

How long should I leave the engine running? 15 minutes?
 
I'm not sure how long it would take from that point to show that they will hold a charge. I'm not sure what auto parts stores you have like Auto zone, O Rilleys, Advanced auto, but here you can drop them off for charging and testing for free. Maybe Canadian tire does it too.
 
what about dumping out the cloudy acid and starting with fresh?
 
Gary68 said:
what about dumping out the cloudy acid and starting with fresh?

Doing that will destroy the battery. Plus you would be creating a nasty hazmat situation with the dumped out cloudy acid that could create several state/federal criminal charges.
 
Gary68 said:
what about dumping out the cloudy acid and starting with fresh?

The cloudiness of the electrolyte is the plate material.  It has likely accumulated to the degree in the bottoms of the cells that one or more is shorted out.

I would NOT recommend trying to charge these batteries, and  certainly not by hooking them via jumper cables to a running vehicle with computer controlled anything.



Even if one successfully gets them to maintain 12.6v 24 hours after removal from the charging source, their capacity is compromised to a huge degree and any level of depletion/ cycling will likely push them over the edge of usefullness.

I still have my old group31 flooded battery on the floor in my workshop, and I know its original capacity is well less than half the 130AH  it had when new.  The electrolyte does not get cloudy until it has been bubbling vigorously at 14.x volts for a while.  I am surprised it is still going.

I'd put efforts in to wiring it up better for the next set of batteries, and yes most anybody being paid to wire things will likely use too thin of wire and use poor crimp connectors, and poor crimping tools.  The worst wiring jobs I've seen came from a RV joint, in a new RV.  Looked like the worker used a hammer on the crimps, not even a hammer crimp, just a hammer.  It worked 'just fine' for 3 years.  In actuality it was not far from a complete failure at best and at worst, an electrical fire that whole time.
 
One Awesome Inch said:
What do you guys think about these batteries? Found them on cl for $150cdn each. 1.5 years old.
They are lithium 24v and 20 amp hours. They sound like good batteries but not sure about the 20 ah?

$150 for 20AH (~16AH usable) vs. >$200 for two GC2s at 200+ AH (100+ usable), even less with a 12V marine battery.

JMO: I think lithium batteries should be left to people who understand their systems.  Still too new, still too much disagreement on how to care for them, still too expensive.  Try to resurrect your current batteries first (cheapest solution) and fix the rest of your system before spending money on new batteries.

One Awesome Inch said:
Not sure how I ruined the batteries... aside from not attending to them quickly. I just don't get the reasoning behind the 12 or 14 gage wire used by the rv place that installed the system. Probably just trying to save money by using cheaper wire but for $1300 you would hope they'd do a better job.

Read HandyBob; a couple of his epic rants are about RV dealers using too small a gage of wire.  I read HandyBob 'Battery Charging Puzzle' four or five times before I understood and was able to design and build a robust system (2 years running and very happy with it).

 -- Spiff
 
the wake has spoken so thats the route i would take

so trying to massage an abused battery back to life is pretty much a waste of time,correct?
 
When the electrolyte is cloudy before it is even attempted to recharge, there is no point in trying to massage it unless it is an absolute end of times emergency.

Any 12v lead acid battery slowly drained over a period of months to anything below 10.5 volts is unlikely to respond to attempts to revive it. Certainly do not rely on any battery which does 'appear' to respond.

Sulfated batteries can be massaged and sometimes massaged quite well given enough time at absorption and EQ voltages, but a 12v battery drained to 6.37 volts over 3 months with cloudy electrolyte, before application of any charge current, is a goner.

They are worth the core charge only, in my opinion.

If the undersized charge wiring to them is not upgraded, I would just get the cheapest 12v battery possible until one can improve the undersized and poorly terminated wiring.

Such systems will chew through any battery quickly, no matter the quality or design, so it is best to view them as disposable until the wiring and terminations are upgraded.

There will be stories about successful battery revival, you tube videos with unsupportable claims, and other delusions regarding lead acid batteries and their magical revival. I do not believe any of them.

Time is the killer. The longer a battery sits under 80% charged, the more its plates will be occluded with sulfates, the more time it rests there the harder those sulfatges become, never to redissolve back into the electrolyte.

When the electrolyte is cloudy and the battery is at half its fully charged voltage and has not yet seen any charge current, it is a goner. I'd not waste any time or electricity trying to refill it.
That balloon was deflated, stepped on, and dipped in tree sap. It will never inflate again.
 
Okay I'm going to just replace the batteries and not bother with them based on sternwake's advice. Thank you! ☺

Another question...

This is my battery isolator. I know that one stud goes to the starting battery/alternator and one goes to the house battery.  One is already going to the true ignition source in the fuse panel relay (glad I don't have to mess with that)But there is only three studs. Which one is supposed to be ground?

Pic:

 
One Awesome Inch said:
Okay I'm going to just replace the batteries and not bother with them based on sternwake's advice. Thank you! ☺

Another question...

This is my battery isolator. I know that one stud goes to the starting battery/alternator and one goes to the house battery.  One is already going to the true ignition source in the fuse panel relay (glad I don't have to mess with that)But there is only three studs. Which one is supposed to be ground?

Pic:



The base of the unit is the ground. It is to a metal surface. 

The ignition source could go to a switch, (Which is how I have mine) so you can chose when to run power from that source.
 
So it's already grounded then?

The wire going to the "true ignition source" is going directly into the ignition fuse/relay. It's already previously wired up so I can just leave it... hopefully!
 
the ignition wire is ok. the wires to your alternator and house batteries is way to small. the breaker is probably to small too. highdesertranger
 
Batteries sold as Lithium-Ion are probably Lithium-cobalt, and are a fire hazard and loose significant capacity just sitting. These also seem to be overpriced for used batteries. Only go 24v if you know what you are doing. Lithium-Feric-phosphate is what I recomend. (LiFePO4 aka LFP aka lithium-iorn-phosphate.)
 
As per Jims comments I am going to stick with 12v. Seems like a better idea, especially with my limited knowledge on the subject.
 
highdesertranger said:
the ignition wire is ok.  the wires to your alternator and house batteries is way to small.  the breaker is probably to small too.  highdesertranger

I am replacing all the wire with 4 gage as per the pic below. Thanks for your advice!

 

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