Any interests on making your vehicle handle better?

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Not That Bob

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Most of my background is racing, so I look at vehicles with racers eyes. 

Not to brag, maybe a little, I have help build a class winner in SCCA, built/drove road rally, built/drove drag cars and was crew chief for a blown alcohol FED.

Now I don't expect to turn my S10 into a road rally 4x4 camper but the same principles apply.

So if there is interest, I can explain some of basics to help make your trip down the road safer.

Let me know.
 
So next week  we can take our old vans on a can am track.  :huh:
 
I think the basics are all the same no matter what your driving when it comes to handling. Weight bias, spring rates, dampers, ride height, bushing materials, tire size. unladen weight vs laden weight, etc etc etc....

Id love to try this one day if I ever make it back to Japan: To wrestle a 5000lb van around a race track at pants-soiling speeds? Count me in!!!!!
[img=318x162]http://www.web2carz.com/images/articles/201507/dvan_gp_1437065694_615x314.jpg[/img]

My background is road racing superbikes back when GP500 still meant two stroke square 4 death machines and BOTT races still meant 1000cc V twins.
 
The principles are the same, but do the parts exist to do it? For example, I'd like less sway in my 3/4 ton van, but does anyone make beefier sway bars?
 
MrNoodly said:
The principles are the same, but do the parts exist to do it? For example, I'd like less sway in my 3/4 ton van, but does anyone make beefier sway bars?

I am interested I am beefing up my 1993 ford e 150
 

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Many Vans that become dwelled in, are older with tired springs and worn shocks barely adequate for an empty van, and then, they are overloaded.

The difference in handling of such a van compared to one whose ride height and spring rate is similar to when new, compensating for the dweller's load, is VAST.

My rear leaf springs were very tired. Ideally I would have gotten new leafs, but instead, I added firestone ride rite airbag helper springs. The reduction in leaning around corners was the most obvious effect, and big rigs at highway speeds could not push me all over the road as easily.

KYB gas a just shocks on all 4 corners further increased handling confidence, but are a pretty stiff shock compared to say a monroe reflex.

In 2012 I rebuilt front suspension and used thicker coil springs. With the correct PSI in rear airbags for the load I carry, good brakes, and properly inflated tires, even this top heavy van handles impressively.

Regarding brakes, many rear drum brakes do not self adjust properly, and then the front disc brakes then perform more work than they would have to otherwise, and stopping distances increase greatly. It seems the long life brake pads have no bite. Most scared I have even been behind wheel was with both feet on brake pedal, 220 LBs pressing everything on it, and the van only barely stopped in time with my long life brake pads from Napa. This emergency stop, would have not been an issue in another vehicle, it was only the emergency stop that revealed how anemic my brakes were, causing me to take action.

I now have Hawk HPS performance pads, bedded in properly to Brembo rotors, and can lock up the front brakes easily. I tend to rotate my tires more often than necessary, and When I do so, I pull off the rear drums, expand the shoes by the star adjuster until I cannot get the drums back over them, then contract them just enough until I can, then another click or 2 to make sure they do not drag. There are other methods.

Driving around with anemic brakes is dangerous, and not just to yourself.
Spend money and effort here first.

If your parking brake goes to the floor, it is very possible your rear drums are not self adjusting properly.

Improvements in my van from this point would be a RedHead steering gear, as the Apsco reman'd gear I installed might not leak, but is horribly worn, and cannot be adjusted tighter, safely. I replaced the Pot steering coupler with a flaming river U joint for a huge improvement in steering slop, now it is all within the crappy quality reman steering gear itself.
 
SternWake said:
Many Vans that become dwelled in, are older with tired springs and worn shocks barely adequate for an empty van, and then, they are overloaded.

The difference in handling of such a van compared to one whose ride height and spring rate is similar to when new, compensating for the dweller's load, is VAST.

My rear leaf springs were very tired...
Whereas the springs on my 2007 3/4 ton Chevy are stiffer than I need, particularly in the rear. I don't carry a huge load, so the whole van -- not just the axle -- tends to bounce up and down on rough roads. The stiffness helps reduce sway, though. Obviously, I don't want to go to stiffer springs to reduce sway even more. That's why I'm wondering about stiffer sway bars. I've tried finding the sway bar specs for 3/4 ton vs. 1 ton Express vans. No luck.
 
Sway is leaning around turns. if you rear springs are stiffer than you require, what about the fronts? Most of the weight is up there.

I once removed my front sway bar for treating rust and repainting, which I took 2 weeks to do.

Driving around without it was barely noticeable. When I put it back on it was more so, but not to the degree I thought it would be. Not sure if this is because I upgraded my front coil springs to thicker ones.
 
SternWake said:
if you rear springs are stiffer than you require, what about the fronts?  Most of the weight is up there.

Since the front is heavier, the stiffer (vs a 1/2 ton) springs are well matched. But the rears are meant to work with over a ton of cargo on board, which I'm not carrying.
 
I can only speak for Dodge vans as I have alot of years of experience with them. I'm really really new to the Ford TTB, and I have never owned a GM van.

A Dodge that handles good will consist of:

Front sway bar. (THICK ONE, like from Addco, or Helwig)

Poly urethane, or poly Graphite bushings from like P-S-T.

higher front spring rates if you have a 1/2 ton

Dodge Dakota drop spindles to lower ride height WITHOUT effecting steering geometry.

Carrera, or Bilstein shocks with adjustable dampening.

Panhard rod for the live rear axle.

50/50 weight bias, or as close as you can get to it.

15x7 front, and 15x8 0ET rear wheels to improve high speed cornering stability. 60 series tires for street.. 16" wheels and 50/45 series tires for road racing.

Drilled rotors and Steel brake lines. Air scoops for the brakes.

If I had to road race a Dodge B series, I would be prepared to use whatever HP I had cause its the only way your gonna steer that fat pig at that speed, Go fast into the corner, Go Fast, go deep! Scandinavian flick, PUNCH IT, and BACK MY *SS into every corner...

Oh Sh*t ok.. That's how I rode my buddies Honda Goldwing around Sears Point Raceway dueing track days hahaha.
 
MrNoodly said:
Whereas the springs on my 2007 3/4 ton Chevy are stiffer than I need, particularly in the rear. I don't carry a huge load, so the whole van -- not just the axle -- tends to bounce up and down on rough roads. The stiffness helps reduce sway, though. Obviously, I don't want to go to stiffer springs to reduce sway even more. That's why I'm wondering about stiffer sway bars. I've tried finding the sway bar specs for 3/4 ton vs. 1 ton Express vans. No luck.

There's a company in CA called Deaver Springs.  Well known in the custom and 4X4 world.  You can take your van to them, along with the weight figures for all four wheels from a CAt scale or similar, and they will put together a custom spring pack perfectly matched to that weight.

http://www.deaverspring.com/
 
SternWake said:
Sway is leaning around turns. if you rear springs are stiffer than you require, what about the fronts?  Most of the weight is up there.

I once removed my front sway bar for treating rust and repainting, which I took 2 weeks to do.

Driving around without it was barely noticeable.  When I put it back on it was more so, but not to the degree I thought it would be.  Not sure if this is because I upgraded my front coil springs to thicker ones.

From my time as a Jeep guy, I know the consensus there was that the sway bar really is only there to affect handling during maneuvers at speed - I.E. if a squirrel runs out in front of you and you crank the wheel suddenly, the sway bar keeps your other tire on the road.

At least that's my understanding. I drove a long time with mine detached.
 
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