Alternative to inverter generator?

[ganchan]

Even though I plan on resting my minivan at campgrounds with electricity when possible, there will always be times when I'm nowhere near an outlet -- so no "down and dirty" solution such as running an extension cord through the window.  But installing a real house battery system might be beyond my current resources, especially since I'd be outsourcing it to someone who actually knew what they were doing. The obvious alternative would be to purchase an inverter generator. But the good ones, such as the ultra-quiet Honda portables, also seem exorbitantly pricey. You get what you pay for, I guess.

Is there a cheap workaround for this situation? I've heard of someone who jumper-cabled their house battery through the hood of the vehicle, but that seems a little risky to me -- and as I mentioned, I may not be driving for long enough periods of time to get a full charge from the alternator or starter battery anyway.

Sorry if this us a dumb question. Electrical stuff makes my head spin....

 

[SternWake]

Even though I plan on resting my minivan at campgrounds with electricity when possible, there will always be times when I'm nowhere near an outlet -- so no "down and dirty" solution such as running an extension cord through the window.  But installing a real house battery system might be beyond my current resources, especially since I'd be outsourcing it to someone who actually knew what they were doing. The obvious alternative would be to purchase an inverter generator. But the good ones, such as the ultra-quiet Honda portables, also seem exorbitantly pricey. You get what you pay for, I guess.

Is there a cheap workaround for this situation? I've heard of someone who jumper-cabled their house battery through the hood of the vehicle, but that seems a little risky to me -- and as I mentioned, I may not be driving for long enough periods of time to get a full charge from the alternator or starter battery anyway.

Sorry if this us a dumb question. Electrical stuff makes my head spin....

There are many cheap work around solutions, but they are all short term, as inverters eat batteries, and chronically undercharging these batteries destroys their lifespans.  So you have to decide how disposable you will treat your batteries, and how much effort you will put into recharging them.   And the alternator does poorly to bring a battery from 80% to 100%, as this takes ~ 4 hours no matter the charging source. 

It is a trade off.  Once can make an elaborate system that can capable replace and fully charge a battery after every depletion, or just decide to keep over depleting the engine battery and have a means to jumpstart oneself, and after the starter battery fails, replace it with a somewhat more tolerant to deep discharge marine battery.

Either way, a battery only has so many cycles in it, and the number of those cycles is determined by how well it is recharged.  Good recharging is back to 100% after any depletion. Acceptable is over 80% charged for upto 2 weeks, but 3 weeks without a 100% recharge and the battery becomes a petulant and punch drunk. 4 weeks without 100% recharge and the battery likely only has half its original capacity to give, and shortly after that it cannot do what it could once do, and only then do most people try and fully recharge it, only to find it is too little too late, and then blame the battery, when the fault lies in a mirror.

 

[ganchan]

Thanks. I would happily consider a cheap-ish used inverter generator to top off the house battery on as regular a basis as possible, but I think several hours of noise at a time would make me a pretty unpopular guy.

I guess a trickle or float charger would only be of value if the battery was already almost full or serving devices with phantom power demands....

What I really wish was that the battery could simply be plugged into an AC wall socket, LOL.

 

[Matt71]

This is the Generator we're looking at
http://amzn.com/B00NHACROW

It's about $400 cheaper than the Honda, but seems to be equally reviewed. I've seen some comparison videos on youtube that show that it voltage output and noise level are pretty comparable. Might be worth considering.

 

[ccbreder]

I have that Westinghouse. It is as quiet as any 2000w generator with a load. If you want quiet, get a 1000 watt something and use it only to recharge batteries. I have not used mine for any long term, but so far like it fine.

 

[Almost There]

Is a 2000 really necessary if it's only being used to recharge the house battery system?

How much faster will it charge the batteries as compared to a 1000?

 

[SoulRaven]

I really like my system, it's cheap, and it has worked flawlessly for me for many years.

My house battery system is totally independent and portable, it is only connected to the vehicle via the cigarette lighter while I'm driving, but I also have a home made gas 12v DC generator to charge it if I'm not driving enough. Prior to charging while driving, I would run my generator about half an hour per week to charge my house battery, but your mileage on that may vary depending on how much power you use.

Mounted to a board which slides under my bed, I have a go-cart engine, hooked up to a car alternator. I got a muffler for it at a Honda shop and it is very quiet. Also on the board, is a marine battery box with my house battery in it, and mounted in the box with it are accessory outlets. Similar battery boxes can be store bought, ready to go, outlets and all. They are for boat trolling motor batteries. Minn-kota and others make them.

On mine, the whole works slides under my bed, and the battery w/ acc outlets is right under the front of my bed.

My batteries, both house and starting batteries came from a place in Salem Oregon called the Battery Exchange. They sell refurbished batteries cheap. My current set is on it's 6th year now, and my previous set lasted 6 years. These are the same people that sold me my battery protectors for $20 each to prevent over discharge of my batteries.

With this set up, if you had shore power, you could easily charge it with a typical battery charger. My system was just designed to never need shore power.

I probably have under $100 in the whole system, because I got the generator parts used. It's easy to make and there are plenty of directions online. When I was using ONLY my gas generator to charge my house battery, a 5 gallon can of gas would last me nearly a year.

I've had a lot of different systems over the years, and this set up is the best I've found to date.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Is a 2000 really necessary if it's only being used to recharge the house battery system?

How much faster will it charge the batteries as compared to a 1000?

Both the Honda and Yamaha 1000 and 2000 watt inverter generators have a built in 12 volt dc output for charging batteries, but in all four cases, the output is limited to 8 amps.  These things are basicly trickle chargers if used by themselves.


You need to buy a good, high-output battery charger, and use the AC output of the generator to provide power to THAT if you don't want to be running the generator all day.

Regards
John

 

[Almost There]

Both the Honda and Yamaha 1000 and 2000 watt inverter generators have a built in 12 volt dc output for charging batteries, but in all four cases, the output is limited to 8 amps.  These things are basicly trickle chargers if used by themselves.


You need to buy a good, high-output battery charger, and use the AC output of the generator to provide power to THAT if you don't want to be running the generator all day.

Regards
John

Good to know, I already have the 1000 in storage. It's going to need a major tune up because it's not accessible to me for monthly running but it's bought and paid for years ago.

How high a 'high output battery charger' should I be looking for?

I'm wiring for multiple choices of battery maintenance - shore power, generator, alternator and solar (eventual add on)

 

[ganchan]

Good to know, I already have the 1000 in storage. It's going to need a major tune up because it's not accessible to me for monthly running but it's bought and paid for years ago.

How high a 'high output battery charger' should I be looking for?

I'm wiring for multiple choices of battery maintenance - shore power, generator, alternator and solar (eventual add on)

Maybe something like this?
http://www.etrailer.com/Battery-Chargers/CTEK-Power-Inc/CTEK56353.html

 

[HarmonicaBruce]

I can't afford a honda or yamaha, but here's a couple of high rated, cheap generators from china:

1000 watts, 36 lbs $135 (2 stroke)

3300 watts, 4 gallon tank, 100 lbs $272

You didn't talk about your power requirements, but in a minivan you can't be running too much stuff.

 

[akrvbob]

Are you going to be in towns or the country? If you are going to be in town you can recharge all your portable devices at once in a library. Put them in a daypack and plugged into a powerstrip at the bottom. Run the cord of the powerstrip out the bottom and plug it in so everything charges at once, then get online or get a book or whatever and stay until everything is charged.

I'd get a fast NIMH battery charger and charge AA and AAA batteries.

You can also get individual items that are solar (like a lantern).

Bob

 

[Bdog1]

You don't mention what you want to run? A good quality jumper box may meet your needs. It's not a great bargain by the Amp/hr, but it's portable plugs into 110or12v to recharge. Will run a fan, LED's and maybe a small inverter briefly. No odor, no noise, no gas.

 

[ganchan]

You don't mention what you want to run?   A good quality jumper box may meet your needs. It's not a great bargain by the Amp/hr, but it's portable plugs into 110or12v to recharge. Will run a fan, LED's and maybe a small inverter briefly. No odor, no noise, no gas.

A fan would be a huge plus, if only to push air through a makeshift air conditioner (ice-filled styrofoam cooler with a vent pipe). I guess I could get one that uses D batteries. Heck, in my dreams I could even power one of those little Frigidaire window units (I'd rest it in the cargo opening and ease the hatch down over the top edge), but I think that would just have to wait for a direct connection to shore power.... Or I could be a spendthrift and run my vehicle's air conditioning if things get desperate.

I've seen some little solar-powered garden "rock" lights that could probably illuminate the minivan at night. I'd keep them on the front seat to absorb sunlight during the day. Otherwise, I think I can get a lot of hours off of internally-powered LED lanterns, so that's no big deal.

I would also like to be able to use my electric hot plate, but it's 500W.

I can charge small devices like electric shaver, cell phone etc, from the 12V lighter plug, one a a time, while running daily errands in the van or driving to the next campground.

My laptop battery is good for 12 hours, so I'd just plug into any public AC outlet once a day and I'm good.

So honestly, I may not need a house system.

 

[HarmonicaBruce]

This may be what you need 12 volt 1 to 4 socket for less than $10.

Instead of the hotplate look at propane or butane stoves.  Lots of options for fans.

 

[ganchan]

This may be what you need 12 volt 1 to 4 socket for less than $10.

Instead of the hotplate look at propane or butane stoves.  Lots of options for fans.

Thanks. Anything to be conscious of regarding starter-battery drain, fuses, etc with this sort of multi-device adaptor?

 

[SoulRaven]

Thanks. Anything to be conscious of regarding starter-battery drain, fuses, etc with this sort of multi-device adaptor?

They have battery protectors available that will keep you safe and worry free.  I have one on both my house battery and my starting battery.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

How high a 'high output battery charger' should I be looking for?

Depends.

What's the total amp-hour capacity of your battery bank?  Flooded or AGM?  Does the battery's manufacturer have any specific recommendations listed in a user's manual?

Regards
John

 

[SternWake]

OP^ brings up excellent points.

Don't be afraid to rapidly charge depleted batteries as long as the voltage does not climb above~ 14.8v on Flooded batteries.

If you want to power 12v Devices while charging, then RV converters can handle doing so, but regular automatic 'smart' chargers will get confused when there is a load on the battery and this load changes or is added to or removed.

I regularly feed my single group 31(130 amp hours) battery 41 amps when plugged in, and the alternator will give it 75+ amps. My group 27 AGM will suck 110 alternator amps, and revels in such a quenching.

Most manufacturers recommend a 10% rate, meaning 10 amps for a 100 amp hour battery, but this is best for when there is no time limit on the charging, if you only have a few hours to plug in, then higher amp chargers are warranted.

Trojan recommends 10 to 13%
USBattery recommends 10%

 

[MK7]

If you want cheap and easy, then nothing beats a $90 marine battery and jumper cables out the window while you're driving. Just buy 4 little C-clamps to make sure that the jumper cables don't fly off.

Next up the cheap menu is probably an $80 2-stroke generator that sounds like a 1980's lawn mower + a $30 car battery charger that can charge at 2 and 10 amps and can also start your car at like 50a.

This is plenty of juice for recharging laptops, phones, etc. and power LED lanterns. While the genny's running, you can recharge them all on the genny's power and not the marine battery (while it's charging). 500w hotplate will ruin your battery. You buy a propane stove for that.