AC unit made from ice cooler and portable fan.

[BigT]

I'm guessing you'd need to live in a very low-humidity environment to avoid getting everything soaking wet.  

Here's the story. http://abc13.com/weather/diy-homemade-air-conditioner-for-around-$8/150681/

Still, if it works, you could run it with a 12 Volt fan and power it off your solar.  

 

[eDJ_]

Yes,  in more arid climate areas of the USA this concept has been around for some time.  It can even work with
just water.  (often called swamp coolers)  My Granddad was in the Air Force in Las Vegas, NV during WW2 and had one of these for his car.  They traveled through the desert during the evening when it was cooler and this
device made it feel like A/C.

By the later 1950's JC Whitney was selling a plastic bin that sit over the transmission hump in cars
that would be loaded with ice. The lid contained 12 vdc fans that plugged into the cigarette lighter.
This De Soto shows one mounted and ready to use.

The ice was more effective at cooling and cold drinks & food could be stowed in it during trips.


It is interesting to look back at things we once used and have since forgotten. 

Myself, I wish someone would begin to build the "Crosley Icy Ball" mechanical refrigerator again
only as a smaller more technically advanced model, which could incorporate solar energy into the
design.

Something using a plastic Cooler and much more mobile than this 1930's vintage refrigerator.

Operators manual for the Icy Ball

http://crosleyautoclub.com/IcyBall/IB_Manual/operations_manual.html


[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icyball]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icyball[/url]

 

[ZoNiE]

Those are all "air coolers" Not air conditioners. They do not remove heat and move it outside. They chill the air... until the ice melts... in about 10 minutes. Don't waste your money on those. It takes absorption or mechanical compression to remove heat. Both of those require energy.

 

[SoulRaven]

There are variations on these that work extremely well and will work in any humidity. Mine actually dehumidifies the air, just like factory A/C does, and a large block of ice will last 5-6 days. I don't really know what the amp draw on mine is, but it's only very slightly higher than running just the fan alone. Mine also works well without ice, just using water as the coolant.

We did a variation on one of these a few weeks ago for a friend. We used a 40 qt. cooler, fan, and adjustable exhaust pipe. What we did different, was we put the big block of ice, in a separate sealed container, inside the ice chest. It worked well, and there was no change in the indoor humidity. I'm not sure how long the ice lasted, as he pulled out 2 days after we made it, and I haven't heard how long the ice lasted. It lasted at least 2 days though, because it was still blowing cold air when he pulled out.

As far as the terminology goes, air cooler vs. air conditioner, if both cool the air or occupants, I would say either term is just fine.

 

[highdesertranger]

let me try to make this simple, AC works like a refrigerator. it takes heat from inside a closed area and removes it to the outside of said area, it keeps removing heat until it's cold inside the enclosed area. it really doesn't cool anything, just removes heat. the coolers do not remove heat but make the air cooler this only works until the humidity climbs to high(swamp cooler) or the temp of the water reaches room temperature with the cold water type(the type off grid keeps promoting). that is a very nonscientific explanation. highdesertranger

 

[WheelEstate USA]

Or...You could come up to the Oregon coast. We have yet to see a day it made it to 80f and its been mostly sunny days all summer.
Gets down in the 50s at night and freezes my my skinny butt. Can't believe I'm sitting here thinking about turning on the heater and y'all are talking A/C.
Quite a change for an Arizona guy.

 

[BigT]

It wasn't intended as a super serious post. It was just something I saw and thought would be interesting to explore a bit further.

 

[WheelEstate USA]

It wasn't intended as a super serious post.  It was just something I saw and thought would be interesting to explore a bit further.

We met a guy in Tucson last year who used one in his van and it did make a big difference. It was in the 90s and he was parked in the shade. 
If it weren't for the fact that we travel to cooler summer locations I would consider making one.

 

[ZoNiE]

No, it's not the same. Air cooling and Air conditioning are two totally different things. As Highdesertranger and I stated, Air conditioners are refrigeration units, they MOVE heat out mechanically. Air coolers cool the air. The heat is transferred to the ice block or whatever, which is in the same space, and then warms up and melts. It does not condition or dehumidify the air. It is simple quick comfort, but will not cool a space all day. You also have to buy Ice... Which was frozen by mechanical refrigeration process. The cooler does not remove the heat from the room.

 

[highdesertranger]

I personally like bindi's idea. highdesertranger

 

[eDJ_]

The Crosley Icy Ball was a great idea as Rural Electrification was years away and there was need of
some form of cooling that would produce dependable refrigeration.   Those were shipped all over the world
and missionary hospitals even used them to keep medications cool that required it. (such as insulin).

If smaller versions of those were available today they could cool 40qt ice chest with gas stove and a plastic
bucket of water.  The ice chest lid may need some modification but it could be done.   It sure would make
off grid living a lot easier. 

The sequence of operation isn't that bad once you've seen it done.  I saw it on TV the first time I ever heard
of the thing.  One 5/8 or 3/4 the size without the hole for the ice tray could be serviceable enough for most
people's needs.  They could have a second smaller chest to hold an 8 lb bag of ice.

I've known of 2 Bearcat's in my area.  One the motor was on the boat but the lower end of the outdrive
was missing.  I'm guessing they took it off to service it but couldn't find parts.  The other was offered to
me at a dealer pending the owners not showing up to reclaim it.   Dealer never called back.  (they were surprised
I was even interested in it)  They offered it to me for $50 bucks to get it out of there.

 

[SoulRaven]

No, it's not the same. Air cooling and Air conditioning are two totally different things. As Highdesertranger and I stated, Air conditioners are refrigeration units, they MOVE heat out mechanically. Air coolers cool the air. The heat is transferred to the ice block or whatever, which is in the same space, and then warms up and melts. It does not condition or dehumidify the air. It is simple quick comfort, but will not cool a space all day. You also have to buy Ice... Which was frozen by mechanical refrigeration process. The cooler does not remove the heat from the room.

You are totally incorrect.  Mine will work with or without ice, and I have seen it drop the humidity in my van from 80% down to 30%.  My thermometer also displays humidity.

The week before the 4th I was selling fireworks.  It was 110+ outside, and stayed in the 90's until just before sun up.  My cooler was running nearly 24/7, in the tent during the day, and in my van at night.  To keep my van from getting too cold, I had to open some windows.  A block of ice lasted 5 days.  I needed to recharge my battery every 4 days.

Call it what you like, it does work, and it works very well.  I use it most often without the addition of ice, and it works very well that way too, just won't get quite as cold.

It makes absolutely no difference what process is used to cool the air, if it works, it works.  A jet uses no propeller, but it can still fly, and a balloon can fly without wings.

The only difference between my 12v A/C and your version of an A/C is the method in which the air exchanger is cooled, which is totally irrelevant if it works.  The heat expelled outside from a compressor type A/C is generated from the motor and the compressor.  It is not coming from inside the house.  The house air is sucked into the A/C, and passes through an air exchanger, then blown back into the house.

My A/C generates far less heat than a compressor model, which in some circles would be considered to be more green.

 

[ZoNiE]

So without ice, it's just a fan...

Unless it has a peltier thermoelectric unit in it. Then it transfers heat but if the whole thing is in the car, the heat never leaves...

 

[SoulRaven]

So without ice, it's just a fan...

Unless it has a peltier thermoelectric unit in it. Then it transfers heat but if the whole thing is in the car, the heat never leaves...

No, without ice, you still have the cool water flowing through the heater core cooling the air passing through it.  Even after running it all day long on a 90f-95f day, the water in the cooler will still feel almost cold to the touch.  Not as cold as like ice water if you add ice, but very cool to the touch.

Without ice, it will cool my van by at least 20f.  If you need more, then you add ice to more than double the capability.

There have been times when I have run mine for many days in a row without ice, and it would consistently lower the temperature of my interior down into the 70's when the outside temps were in the 90's.

The hardest part for me has been that it works too good.  It doesn't have a thermostat, so it is either on or off, and I hate turning it on and off constantly by hand. I would rather just leave it on.  So to regulate the temperature from getting too cold, I am adjusting windows to allow warmer air to come in.  This can take some fussing to get it just right.  Setting air exchanger in front of an open window so that it's sucking outside air in helps.

 

[amwbox]

...but how is it possible to keep lowering the temperature of the van if there isn't any new cooling source (ice)? For water to cool air, it has to absorb the heat from that air. So the temperature of the water would go up. Energy always has to go somewhere. Can't just disappear.

Unless I'm missing something?

 

[IGBT]

...but how is it possible to keep lowering the temperature of the van if there isn't any new cooling source (ice)? For water to cool air, it has to absorb the heat from that air. So the temperature of the water would go up. Energy always has to go somewhere. Can't just disappear.

Unless I'm missing something?

Maybe the energy goes into BS?

 

[SoulRaven]

...but how is it possible to keep lowering the temperature of the van if there isn't any new cooling source (ice)? For water to cool air, it has to absorb the heat from that air. So the temperature of the water would go up. Energy always has to go somewhere. Can't just disappear.

Unless I'm missing something?

I too have been curious about this phenomenon for many years.  One fellow I met a few years back, said he was a retired science teacher.  By his description of how it works, he said that the fan moving air through the radiator will cool the water, and yet the air exiting the far side of the radiator will also be cooled.

This theory seems to hold true with swamp coolers as well.  You can fill a swamp cooler with warm water, yet it will cool the air, and before long the water in the reservoir will be colder than the surrounding air as well.

With my cooler, the water level actually increases as it is used, in humid area's, I have seen my water level increase by as much as a gallon in a day.  With a swamp cooler, the water in the reservoir decreases, but is deposited into the surrounding air.  Maybe these water levels, either in the air, or into the cooler, have something to do with this.

 

[IGBT]

A modern compressor air conditioner actually uses some of the technology of a swamp cooler.

The evaporator, which is exposed to the living area, gets cold by the high pressure liquid expanding into gas (this physical change is endothermic (absorbs heat(energy) ).  Water vapor in the air will condense on the evaporator and drip down into a common pan, shared by both the evaporator and the condenser.   The condenser, which is exposed to the outside air and insulated from the living area, receives compressed, hot gas from the compressor and cools it with cooler outside air (even 110 degree air is much cooler than the compressed gas in the condenser radiator).   The swamp cooler aspect of this is the water in the common pan.   The fan will sling some of this water on the condenser coils and it will evaporate, removing heat from the condenser similar to the way the expanding gas in the evaporator removed heat from the living space air.

The side effect of the water in the common pan is that this water comes from the living space air, so the air conditioner massively decreases the humidity in the living space air (dropping from up to 80% down to 30% in a lot of situations).   A pure swamp cooler can only INCREASE the humidity of the living space, as the evaporating water goes into the living space air.  You could of course cycle the air in the living space with outside air to keep the humidity lower, but some heat from outside would likely come in with the drier air.

This is how stuff works in reality.   In fantasy anything is possible.

 

[amwbox]

I too have been curious about this phenomenon for many years.  One fellow I met a few years back, said he was a retired science teacher.  By his description of how it works, he said that the fan moving air through the radiator will cool the water, and yet the air exiting the far side of the radiator will also be cooled.

The air might feel cooler...but the total effect still can't result in a lower temperature coming from nowhere. The energy is simply moved from here to there...but it can't be made to disappear. First Law of Thermodynamics tells us that the total energy of a system is constant, that energy can change form but can't be created or destroyed. Basically, energy=heat minus work done.

If you have a closed system where your total heat = 10
...and you add ice that can remove 4 by changing phase back to a liquid
...you still have a net heat of 6...because the water is already melted. Its the act of changing from solid to liquid that absorbs energy.
...if you keep using the same water, you can only eek a little more cooling out of it with evaporation...but that works only as long as the air can take up more humidity. 

This theory seems to hold true with swamp coolers as well.  You can fill a swamp cooler with warm water, yet it will cool the air, and before long the water in the reservoir will be colder than the surrounding air as well.

With my cooler, the water level actually increases as it is used, in humid area's, I have seen my water level increase by as much as a gallon in a day.  With a swamp cooler, the water in the reservoir decreases, but is deposited into the surrounding air.  Maybe these water levels, either in the air, or into the cooler, have something to do with this.

What you're describing there is evaporative cooling. Its the same way that sweating cools you. The energy it takes to make water change phase from liquid to vapor is taken from the surface of your skin, resulting in a loss of heat. The energy is used for that phase change. Swamp coolers work the same way. Heat is removed through evaporation. That's why they need a steady supply of water, and why they work better in dry air...more potential for evaporation.

The key thing is that the cooler still needs to remain on the outside of the building...otherwise that heat wouldn't be able to go anywhere.

The water level increasing in your cooler is just condensation from the ambient air.

The cooler sounds like a pretty good deal. Will investigate, but I doubt its working any thermodynamic magic.

 

[SoulRaven]

When I was maybe 9 or 10, I was visiting relatives near New Orleans. One day the house was unbelievably hot, and it was determined that the swamp cooler wasn't working.

So there was this box, sitting on a stand in the living room, that we proceeded to dismantle. Inside there was a radiator with a fan behind it, water in a tray in the bottom, and a pump with hose running to the radiator, and a return hose from the radiator into the water reservoir. This of course was electric. I was told it was a swamp cooler, but the inner workings were slightly different from other swamp coolers that I had seen previously. The other swamp coolers had a fibrous pad in front of the fan, that was kept wet by pumping water into a trough above the pad, which would then flow down through the pad, returning any excess water into the water reservoir below.

So there were 2 main differences between these tow versions, one used a radiator instead of a water soaked pad, and the one with the radiator needed to have water drained from it, and the one with the pad needed to have water added to it. Those were the obvious differences to me, and I probably didn't know much about humidity at the time.

Neither of the units that I was familiar with at the time sat in a window, they were sitting inside the house, and recycling indoor air. To my knowledge at the time, both were called swamp coolers, and both worked quite well at keeping the houses cool. Neither used ice.

Later I learned about humidity and how the radiator type removed humidity, and the pad type added humidity, each adding benefits in their intended environments. Evidently these two different types were sold in different areas where they were appropriate.

Today's versions of these for RV's is just a simple reincarnation of old technology except in 12 volt form. The workings and efficiency is pretty close to identical, only the power source has changed. Today, the efficiency can be improved by adding ice, which is something I don't remember being used in the models from yesteryear.

This technology has been successfully cooling homes for longer than the 69 years I've been around. So to all of the naysayers, I guess I will simply say check your history, all your physics or whatever theories on why this can't work have been proven wrong by history.