AC system completely shot.

[Markw]

So I had my van in the shop a week or two ago for an oil change and to get the AC checked out.

Well, according to them there are leaks -everywhere- and many of the seals are shot as well as the compressor. They quoted 2 grand for repairs. Hell I can get all the parts on Rockauto for less than $300.

So my question is...to someone that is moderately decent at working on cars how difficult would it be to replace the AC system on a 2005 Kia Sedona? We are talking full replacement...compressor, condensor, evap, seals, lines etc.

 

[wayne49]

Get another quote.

 

[maki2]

Get a second opinion from another shop. Or go to YouTube and learn how to inspect it and repair it yourself.

 

[bullfrog]

I would be very surprised if you are getting what you need or very high quality parts for $300. The basic principles of air conditioning are pretty simple, compress freon it gives off heat outside the vehicle and release the pressure it absorbs the heat inside the vehicle. Basically 2 heat exchangers ( a condenser outside and an evaporator inside ) with a valve or controlled pressure release as it enters through the lines to the evaporator. Usually a dryer or filter is required to keep the system from clogging up or becoming contaminated. Because of the high pressures having a sealed system and keeping it sealed is problematic and usually why they fail. Once the system is contaminated compressors lock up, dryer/filter gets clogged and valves stop working. There are restrictions on who can service and buy freon as it can damage the environment but it can easily be obtained. Some special equipment is required and can be expensive and if not used properly, dangerous. Vocational schools used to have Automotive Air Conditioning classes as well as some automotive parts stores, I would ask around the area you are in to see if that is still the case. Usually the most critical part is insuring the new compressor has the right amount of lubricating oil and the system is sealed and charged correctly. Removing and replacing the evaporator often requires working in tight quarters, some times removing the dash, heating ducts and heater core which should be replaced if you have experienced any decreased performance as both will probably have to be removed and can be a pain to go back and redo. Even replacing a simple heater core can be several hundred dollars worth of labor so shop around and be prepared to find more things that may need replaced. Shop price average is around $2,200 at a dealership $3,200. If your 2005 Kia has over 200,000 miles or isn’t in pristine condition otherwise I would spend my money on a newer better car (which is why modern cars are designed to fail) or roll the windows down and buy some cold drinks! This is the reason for comic solutions like a window AC and a rear rack with a generator as it is cheaper and can be transferred to your new vehicle! Lol!!!

 

[Markw]

I would be very surprised if you are getting what you need or very high quality parts for $300. The basic principles of air conditioning are pretty simple, compress freon it gives off heat outside the vehicle and release the pressure it absorbs the heat inside the vehicle. Basically 2 heat exchangers ( a condenser outside and an evaporator inside ) with a valve or controlled pressure release as it enters through the lines to the evaporator. Usually a dryer or filter is required to keep the system from clogging up or becoming contaminated. Because of the high pressures having a sealed system and keeping it sealed is problematic and usually why they fail. Once the system is contaminated compressors lock up, dryer/filter gets clogged and valves stop working. There are restrictions on who can service and buy freon as it can damage the environment but it can easily be obtained. Some special equipment is required and can be expensive and if not used properly, dangerous. Vocational schools used to have Automotive Air Conditioning classes as well as some automotive parts stores, I would ask around the area you are in to see if that is still the case. Usually the most critical part is insuring the new compressor has the right amount of lubricating oil and the system is sealed and charged correctly. Removing and replacing the evaporator often requires working in tight quarters, some times removing the dash, heating ducts and heater core which should be replaced if you have experienced any decreased performance as both will probably have to be removed and can be a pain to go back and redo. Even replacing a simple heater core can be several hundred dollars worth of labor so shop around and be prepared to find more things that may need replaced. Shop price average is around $2,200 at a dealership $3,200. If your 2005 Kia has over 200,000 miles or isn’t in pristine condition otherwise I would spend my money on a newer better car (which is why modern cars are designed to fail) or roll the windows down and buy some cold drinks! This is the reason for comic solutions like a window AC and a rear rack with a generator as it is cheaper and can be transferred to your new vehicle! Lol!!!

I wasn't intending on doing the freon part, I know that's a tricky procedure and I wouldn't trust myself far enough to do that part...I was just going to replace the physical components. Also, the van doesn't even have 200k miles on it, it's currently at 120k and according to Carfax I'm the 2nd owner and the car has, apparently, been maintained so I don't understand why the AC system is shot. I may get one of those lights and check for the dye...if the leaks are as bad as they said they are it should be fairly easy to see it.

The 4x60 AC (4 windows down at 60 mph) is kind of what I have been doing,

As for the quality of the parts at that price point, I would be ordering the parts from Rockauto...so....

 

[bullfrog]

I would take it to a shop that specializes in automotive air conditioning and get a second opinion. Look for wet or dirt collection around the front of the compressor pulley and line connections. If the compressor clutch engages when you turn on the ac and the dryer has a sight glass see if it is clear (good) or milky (bad) looking. The dye works well to find small leaks but you may need to use a vacuum pump and test equipment ( freon detector ) to verify larger leaks which are usually found in specialized shops. If the system is really low on freon the compressor may not even engage. If you are going to do it yourself and if there is still some freon in the system ask them about removing it for you as not to damage the environment.

 

[Cajunwolf]

I wasn't intending on doing the freon part, I know that's a tricky procedure and I wouldn't trust myself far enough to do that part...I was just going to replace the physical components. Also, the van doesn't even have 200k miles on it, it's currently at 120k and according to Carfax I'm the 2nd owner and the car has, apparently, been maintained so I don't understand why the AC system is shot. I may get one of those lights and check for the dye...if the leaks are as bad as they said they are it should be fairly easy to see it.

The 4x60 AC (4 windows down at 60 mph) is kind of what I have been doing,

As for the quality of the parts at that price point, I would be ordering the parts from Rockauto...so....

First off, I buy all of my auto/truck parts at Rockauto and have for years; I've never had a problem. You're getting the same parts or better as any you get from a major auto parts store for around half the price delivered to your door. But, one has to know which parts to order.

What year is the van? How did the A\C fail, slowly not cooling over time (a leak), or suddenly? Is the clutch engaging at the compressor when the A\C kicks on? Too low a pressure (low on gas) will cause this; not enough to clear the pressure switch. Jump the relay to test. It would be best if you did all this before worrying about the compressor. Now, if your orifice or restriction device on the discharge after the condenser has trash, the most common cause is a compressor that has self-destructed for one reason or another.

Reading the thread, I see @bullfrog is bouncing around the solution and the most common problems. In my opinion, and from Mr. Frog's informed posts, It's most likely a leak, and if it were me, I'd throw my manifold (Harbor Freight $60) and see if she's just low on gas, and if so, I'd add some to get her going again; then look for leaks. But you must have some gas left in the system to do this! A note here; you will have to add the die; the factory does not. Auto Zone has it and a chinky but cheap little rig to add an ounce to the system. They also have the pin light (batteries not included), so you can see it glow. Be very careful! Getting within three feet of this substance guarantees you can get that crap all over you and anything you touch, so beware! The most common place for a leak to occur is at the hose to pipe swaged connections. Run your fingers around each one to see if there's any oil residue.

A freon leak sniffer is $80 at Harbor Freight; they work great; I have one. You will need one to check for the evaporator leak. Put the detector in your vehicle with the A\C going and the windows up. You can use it under the hood after running the A\C but with the engine off and inside a shop. Work the tip of the tool around all the connections and condenser coils. If you have too much air moving around, it defeats the purpose. Now, if you have a leaking evaporator, it's in the HVAC box under the dash; need I say more?

If you want to learn to be a do-it-yourselfer and can afford the basic tools, you can do any troubleshooting and repairs you feel comfortable doing. If you don't feel comfortable doing the repairs yourself, you at least know what the heck they're talking about so you don't get taken to the cleaners. You can get a charging manifold and vacuum pump from Harber Freight for under $150. Whenever you open the A\C system, you need a new dryer; I keep spares; they're cheap. And by the way, most A\C systems today use 134 or something similar; if not, you can convert the system for 134 cheaply.

 

[towboater]

So I had my van in the shop a week or two ago for an oil change and to get the AC checked out.

Well, according to them there are leaks -everywhere- and many of the seals are shot as well as the compressor. They quoted 2 grand for repairs. Hell I can get all the parts on Rockauto for less than $300.

So my question is...to someone that is moderately decent at working on cars how difficult would it be to replace the AC system on a 2005 Kia Sedona? We are talking full replacement...compressor, condensor, evap, seals, lines etc.

On a 17 yr old rig it is possible that u have just a very very slow leak. If it is r134a it can b purchased at Walmart or any parts store without a license ( maybe not all states). Get one can and a cheap hose kit for installing in low side port. If compressor doesn’t run when turned on u can either jumper the low pressure switch to energize the compressor or run a temporary hot wire to compressor from a 12v source. Add 1 can and wait and c if small line gets warm and large line gets cold. If that happens then c if it keeps cooling for a week. If so run it. If not u will need to spend some money.
I m not advocating destroying the environment just what a lot of shops would do. Best of luck

 

[Markw]

First off, I buy all of my auto/truck parts at Rockauto and have for years; I've never had a problem. You're getting the same parts or better as any you get from a major auto parts store for around half the price delivered to your door. But, one has to know which parts to order.

What year is the van? How did the A\C fail, slowly not cooling over time (a leak), or suddenly? Is the clutch engaging at the compressor when the A\C kicks on? Too low a pressure (low on gas) will cause this; not enough to clear the pressure switch. Jump the relay to test. It would be best if you did all this before worrying about the compressor. Now, if your orifice or restriction device on the discharge after the condenser has trash, the most common cause is a compressor that has self-destructed for one reason or another.

Reading the thread, I see @bullfrog is bouncing around the solution and the most common problems. In my opinion, and from Mr. Frog's informed posts, It's most likely a leak, and if it were me, I'd throw my manifold (Harbor Freight $60) and see if she's just low on gas, and if so, I'd add some to get her going again; then look for leaks. But you must have some gas left in the system to do this! A note here; you will have to add the die; the factory does not. Auto Zone has it and a chinky but cheap little rig to add an ounce to the system. They also have the pin light (batteries not included), so you can see it glow. Be very careful! Getting within three feet of this substance guarantees you can get that crap all over you and anything you touch, so beware! The most common place for a leak to occur is at the hose to pipe swaged connections. Run your fingers around each one to see if there's any oil residue.

A freon leak sniffer is $80 at Harbor Freight; they work great; I have one. You will need one to check for the evaporator leak. Put the detector in your vehicle with the A\C going and the windows up. You can use it under the hood after running the A\C but with the engine off and inside a shop. Work the tip of the tool around all the connections and condenser coils. If you have too much air moving around, it defeats the purpose. Now, if you have a leaking evaporator, it's in the HVAC box under the dash; need I say more?

If you want to learn to be a do-it-yourselfer and can afford the basic tools, you can do any troubleshooting and repairs you feel comfortable doing. If you don't feel comfortable doing the repairs yourself, you at least know what the heck they're talking about so you don't get taken to the cleaners. You can get a charging manifold and vacuum pump from Harber Freight for under $150. Whenever you open the A\C system, you need a new dryer; I keep spares; they're cheap. And by the way, most A\C systems today use 134 or something similar; if not, you can convert the system for 134 cheaply.

The van is a 2005 Kia Sedona and I don't know whether the A/C failed suddenly or over time (I bought it last December in northern Oklahoma...it was around 10-12 degrees F outside so didn't need the A/C ).

Based on what the garage told me, and if confirmed when I take it in for a 2nd opinion I can get a replacement set at Rockauto that includes the compressor, condenser, drier can, what looks like all the seals, the oil (though the desc says the compressor is pre-oiled),,,well, here's the link below:

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinf...RFbffo1k64vcrh64B3L6nSXSUcaCRlqCVCme43vbMPOtx

All for $254 and the lines are less than $20 each. After that it would really only cost me time (though I have never replaced an A/C system on a car before but there are tons of videos at the college of YouTube (including one by Chris Fixx who has tons of car repair/maintenance videos)).

 

[BlueMarkOhio]

I'd first try to find a shop that does actual repairs instead of replacements to get a quote, since it is unlikely there is more than 1 or 2 parts gone bad.
But if you DO need a full replacement, you might consider converting to electric. That way you can set it up to run off the alternator while driving and switch it to house batteries when camping.

This compressor might be all you need (plus wiring by someone who knows what they are doing). Not a product endorsement (does Rockauto sell these?).

There are also full kits made for trucks and RVs starting at around $900.

https://smile.amazon.com/Automobile...utomobile-conversion/dp/B09NRKD27Q/ref=sr_1_6

 

[user 19146]

when i did my diy ac repair, I used air pressure and soap bubbles to find the leaks and make repairs to the gaskets/ o-rings after replacing the dryer and the compressor. the hard part was adding the air pressure to the system. I had to build my own air pressure adapter to a/c. why use r134a to find the leaks, that just costs $$.

 

[Cajunwolf]

when i did my diy ac repair, I used air pressure and soap bubbles to find the leaks and make repairs to the gaskets/ o-rings after replacing the dryer and the compressor. the hard part was adding the air pressure to the system. I had to build my own air pressure adapter to a/c. why use r134a to find the leaks, that just costs $$.

Interesting idea; I use nitrogen; air, unless well-filtered, can let in contaminants and moister, but in a pinch, I guess it works.

 

[Cajunwolf]

The van is a 2005 Kia Sedona and I don't know whether the A/C failed suddenly or over time (I bought it last December in northern Oklahoma...it was around 10-12 degrees F outside so didn't need the A/C ).

Based on what the garage told me, and if confirmed when I take it in for a 2nd opinion I can get a replacement set at Rockauto that includes the compressor, condenser, drier can, what looks like all the seals, the oil (though the desc says the compressor is pre-oiled),,,well, here's the link below:

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=9822676&cc=1430972&pt=17507&jsn=809&_nck=ZExt1ysfqhqWnq+EvUNdS3Txyey60IDtnjPWF5UU9J0BWQv7pvqZbkEUk86+AYIhylPKrF7bIqF7AJ+KJj38CeoeSfcrre0ApmWYRHEflzZHSGESmyRBxmIHKHpp3SP3dgOyquzaLBSC4yXtVAoSS6e8fIiOuHN/1WbYnKDbk+OtxRtZSpcrKnMHfA6tCO72rkVUlWEO/Tcyx0aSnch9Lxwts6tC/qYdDh4pKnvl+imot+oUED9KP1ijSb5kg8B95zt8oTqVi0YyoUZJgwtos6QwZTjCp16P/faGsmkSfZArvegs0N6RFbffo1k64vcrh64B3L6nSXSUcaCRlqCVCme43vbMPOtx

All for $254 and the lines are less than $20 each. After that it would really only cost me time (though I have never replaced an A/C system on a car before but there are tons of videos at the college of YouTube (including one by Chris Fixx who has tons of car repair/maintenance videos)).

That should do the trick, but have someone put gauges on it first. If it still has gas (pressure), add a can and check for leaks with soapy water. This could save you some money. Remember, it's starting into the off-season for automotive A\C shops. Get a quote with and without you supplying the parts. During the summer months, when their real busy, they will more than likely tell you to take a hike with your parts; they make their money on the markup. The best bet is to entice a tech into a side job for cash if you know what I mean; cash gets stuff done.

 

[Markw]

That should do the trick, but have someone put gauges on it first. If it still has gas (pressure), add a can and check for leaks with soapy water. This could save you some money. Remember, it's starting into the off-season for automotive A\C shops. Get a quote with and without you supplying the parts. During the summer months, when their real busy, they will more than likely tell you to take a hike with your parts; they make their money on the markup. The best bet is to entice a tech into a side job for cash if you know what I mean; cash gets stuff done.

According to the shop they evacuated the system due to the leaks so it's likely empty.