A quick question about shore-power wiring

[Van-Tramp]

So, my can has 120v shore-powered wired through out the van. Normally, if I am camped at a place with electricity, I would plug an extension cord into the outlet on the side of the van. I have no breaker-box or converter/charger setup. Once I am plugged in all the 120v outlets in the van are 'hot'.

Inside the van I have a 1000 watt inverter off the two 12v batteries. There have been times where I ran an extension cord from that inverter, out the rear door, and into that outlet on the side of the van. This would, of course, deliver the inverter power to all outlets. Easy stuff...

The question I have is this; Couldn't I simply create a short extension cord with two male ends, plug one side into the inverter and the other side into a female wall socket? Wouldn't that also deliver power to all outlets? It isn't like the wiring requires the current to only flow *out* those outlets right?

Obviously I would not want to have my Inverter plugged in when I plug into sore-power.

As you can see from my attachment photo, my Inverter is very close to a shore-power wall socket. It would be simple to create a 6 inch male-to-male cord to do this. I'm just hoping for someone to back me up in this thought. Or am I missing something?

 

[WheelEstate USA]

It will work just fine using the short connection as you suspected. For safety, I'd want to make sure the exterior shore power receptacle is capped. Don't want some yo-yo sticking a finger in it....or maybe you do

If you can find some 90 degree male plugs it would lay flat, rather than a loop.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

It will certainly work.

The only potential problem, from a safety point of view, is that, if you don't plug and unplug it in the right sequence, you're going to be holding an energized, exposed wire.

Are you sure that you'll be the only one dealing with this? Might your son be travelling with you at some point?

Remember that Murphy was an optimist.

They make receptacles that accept the female ends of extension cords, which would certainly be the approved way of doing this.

Regards
John

 

[Zil]

As posted. It will energize all the outlets, including the male end on your outside shore connection. The jumper with two male ends can be dangerous. If you don't mind occasional shocks, go for it.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

DANGER WILL ROBINSON

It will work as you stated, but IMHO, there is too many things you have to remember and there are no fail-safes in your system.

Biggest problem is as bindi&us said, you have a hot male terminal on the outside of your vehicle, just waiting for some inquisitive kid to stick his finger on; huge liability issue. This terminal would be hot anytime the jumper is connected.

Second, I don't know what would happen if you forgot the jumper and plugged into shore power; whatever it is, it probably wouldn't be good.

Third, as Optimistic Paranoid said, you have to be very careful with unplugging, as you are dealing with a hot male plug.

Too many things to remember and all you have to do is forget once to wreck your day. And if you are not the only one using your van, the others have to be aware of a system that is not normal.

 

[Duck]

http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|328|2290035|2290042&id=1233021

Put the transfer switch in after the shore power outlet.
There are better ones, but something like this should do the trick. Allows one or the other to work, no outside wiring hanging about required.
EDIT: If you wanted to do it manually, you could also use a http://sterling-power-usa.com/sterlingpowerusamanualcrossoverswitch-1.aspx
and still end up zap free for 30$ instead of 80$ for the automatic.

 

[WheelEstate USA]

I like the manual crossover switch if you can spare the $20. Sure would make things virtually foolproof and a bit safer. In our case, I feel better since Margie would be safe using it.

 

[Van-Tramp]

Thanks all!

Lots to think about regarding this.

Yea, I do understand the risks associated with it, and honestly I'm thinking that continuing to run an extension cord out the back door and to the standard inlet is the easiest way to go (and no risk).

I think if I get around to doing any hardcore re-wiring of the shore-power inlet, I will add the manual switch as well as a breaker-box for additional safety.

Thanks again

 

[WheelEstate USA]

The only risk (over the long cord) by using the jumper is the exterior plug if it isn't covered. If it doesn't have a cover now, you might find a chair/cane rubber foot that will fit nicely.

 

[Van-Tramp]

My outside shore-power inlet does have a spring loaded weather-proof cover.

I am the only person in the van 99% of the time, and even those other times no one else would ever be plugging in the van but me. I guess that is pretty minimal risk, but I am still undecided on if I want to take that risk... I can get pretty dumb sometimes. I'd hate to have a fire just to save myself such a minor inconvenience.

 

[WheelEstate USA]

As long as your jumper is wired correctly you will have no more risk of fire than with the long cord...in fact, safer since there's no cord outside to be messed with by anyone walking by or moisture. Better if you need stealth and no pulling out the heavier cord, which for me would be my 50' 12/3 heavy duty....that I'm very particular about how its rolled and stowed. (nuts to those skimpy cheapo orange cords...one point I refuse to scrimp on is wiring)
Your inverter should have its own fuse built in, so you're safe with the jumper as long as your 120v is correctly installed. It must be since you've done it with the cord without issues.
(didn't you do the build??)

 

[Van-Tramp]

It was done professionally by the van conversion company back in 89-90. I have since rebuilt all the woodwork inside the van, but not the original 120v or 12v wiring. It was all in too good of shape to mess with.

 

[WheelEstate USA]

Sounds like you're good to go with the jumper then.
I carry a tester like this...
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Gardner-...ster-1-clam-5-clams-master-GFI-3501/202867890

Quick, easy test before you plug in anywhere using 20A AC.

Doesn't check voltage, but makes sure the source is wired correctly. Plug in to a good shore power and check inside receptacles.

Some campgrounds have 20/30A on the same receptacle and another for straight 30A RV and a 50A too. There are also adapters available (have one)....so I "can" hook to 20A minimal use.

 

[Van-Tramp]

Well, that didn't take long. I just got back from a weekend camping and using my spiffy little male-to-male-plug-thingy. I got back into town, plugged in, and immediately heard a POP and squeeeeeeeeaaaal!

I just blew my inverter because I, in the first time using this setup, forgot to remove the plug from inside the van before plugging back into shore power.

Well, I wont be using that setup again

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Sounds like you're good to go with the jumper then.
I carry a tester like this...
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Gardner-...ster-1-clam-5-clams-master-GFI-3501/202867890

Quick, easy test before you plug in anywhere using 20A AC.

Doesn't check voltage, but makes sure the source is wired correctly. Plug in to a good shore power and check inside receptacles.

Some campgrounds have 20/30A on the same receptacle and another for straight 30A RV and a 50A too. There are also adapters available (have one)....so I "can" hook to 20A minimal use.

Jay,

Have you ever heard of a Reverse Neutral Bootleg Ground? Very few people have.

Do a Google search on that term, then watch the Youtube videos Mike Sokol from the Noshockzone has done. It's a real eye opener. Turns out that tester you linked to can't always be trusted.

Regards
John

 

[Donedirtcheap]

x2 on the transfer switch. With your money, go with an automatic transfer switch. Default to the inverter and treat the shore power as a generator.

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http://www.electrical-online.com/simple-diagram-of-a-generator-transfer-switch/
Utility power in would be power from your new inverter.
Generator in would be shore power.
So all your wall plugs will be hot off the inverter, when you plug into shore power it will act as the generator and power all the plugs.

Some transfer switches will time out for 30 seconds before closing to the generator side to allow a short gen warmup/stabilization time

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Did you gfi?