A new kind of battery

[pseudo_mccoy]

Article
"The batteries cost about as much as lead-acid ones, which are sometimes used now, but they last twice as long"

 

[kyonu]

Too bad these are all residential or corp batteries, and not RV.

So far the only success anyone has had with better batteries are creating their own large arrays of lithium 18650 cells (similar to a Tesla battery) to obtain the watt-hours they need at the voltage they need. It's enticing, but still very pricey...

 

[flailer]

Has anyone here looked closely at the batteries available from the Electric Motorcycle company: Zero? http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/

I believe that these batteries, because of their compact size, method of heat dissipation, and the single or multiple chargers option, would be VERY popular here.

but who am i?

p.s. I have ridden their bikes, and they are AMAZING !!!

 

[kyonu]

Zero uses the same batteries that Tesla does, in that all they are, are 18650 Panasonic Battery cells (which you can also find in Laptops dating back to 2005). Obviously the aH changes per cell, but you can buy a ton of these off the internet and make your own batteries.

You can youtube some videos of people creating batteries like this and putting them in cars and bikes and whatnot; its very effective. Used cells off Ebay are sometimes very cheap, but raising in price due to popularity.

Zero Motorcycle batteries, however, are very expensive, even more so than Tesla batteries.

 

[moblet]

The Aquion technology appears to be less weight and space efficient than lead acid, so not suited to mobile applications.

The current premium affordable off-the-shelf technology for mobile living is LiFePO4 (aka LFP). Safer, smaller and lighter than lead acid and comparable in price (or cheaper) when calculated over total energy charged and discharged over the life of the battery. Also much more robust than lead acid when it comes to charging rate and regime (e.g. no solar controller required) and depth of discharge.

 

[akrvbob]

LFP comes with a steep learning curve as a price for it's many great advantages. Be sure you are up to it.
I'm not!
Bob

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I spent way too many hours researching LiFePO4 batteries last winter when I decided to jump into solar. My conclusion: not ready for the average user. This is for early technology adopters and people with deep pockets. When it works, it's a lot better than FLA. When it doesn't work, it will leave a BIG hole in your wallet. And there didn't (last winter) seem to be a consensus on what works. I'm hoping that when I have to replace my current (new) batteries, the technology will have matured enough to go to something better than FLA.

-- Spiff

 

[blars]

I've been using LiFePO4 batteries for almost a year, and am very happy with them. They outperform my expectations. They are much harder to abuse than Lead-acid.

 

[HarmonicaBruce]

I've been using LiFePO4 batteries for almost a year, and am very happy with them.

I clicked on your blog, good talk about the LiFePO4 batteries.

 

[moblet]

With the LiFePO4's you can build your own battery if you climb the learning curve and have a workshop, or you can buy a battery with a built-in "battery management system" that is pretty much a drop-in replacement for lead-acid ones (you might need to use different controllers/chargers).

LiFePO4 starter batteries are sold widely for motorsport applications and will presumably gain share in the commercial and domestic automotive markets too. Whether it's due to LiFePO4 or some other technology I expect I've bought my last lead-acid battery.

 

[flailer]

I've been using LiFePO4 batteries for almost a year, and am very happy with them. They outperform my expectations. They are much harder to abuse than Lead-acid.

Thank You!!!

My (limited) understanding of their batteries is the real advantage is in heat dissipation. And my (limited) understanding is that it is HEAT that destroys the largest majority of batteries (they heat up during by the charging & discharge cycle).

Any thing to add ? I'll check your blog as well.

---

1) So, the charge-controller is part of the battery?
2) Is solar only?
3) And no external, stand alone, 110Vac controllers for AC or generator used are not available?

:huh::huh::huh::huh::huh::huh:

WhatUpWiffDat I'm cornfused.... Isnt 110Vac industry standard? duh!

 

[blars]

Most of the failures I've read of with LiFePO4 have been using either the "drop in" systems (optimized for different use) or overcharging due to using chargers set up for lead-acid. I'm not using a BMS, for charging/discarging at less than 1/2 C (130 amps in my system) they seem to cause as many problems as they cure. The vast majority of my charging is done with solar, the rest via alternator or a converter/charger that I would replace if used more.

 

[flailer]

Most of the failures I've read of with LiFePO4 have been using either the "drop in" systems (optimized for different use) or overcharging due to using chargers set up for lead-acid. .....

Wouldn't Zero Motorcycle's charge work? Half the price of a generator, and charges your batteries in 1 to 2 hours (plugged in of course)

ClickLink

 

[blars]

Wouldn't Zero Motorcycle's charge work? Half the price of a generator, and charges your batteries in 1 to 2 hours (plugged in of course)

Nope. For high-voltage battery packs.

None of the RV converter-chargers seem to be programmable for LiFePO4. Some marine ones are.
(The settings are different and if anything less complicated.)