4x4?

[LucidPhotographer]

Anyone ever had a van converted to 4x4? I know that isnt a cheap thing but I keep seeing them all over the internet and they look interesting. I dont mean the AWD Safaris or whatever, a full blown 4wd conversion.

 

[bk2valve]

I did own a 1991 Ford E250 van with a 4wd conversion.....Frankly, although I thought it would be perfect for my needs, it was not and I would never own another.....It was done by a professional driveline/suspension&nbsp; conversion outfit in Oregon when it was new, so it was a good job I guess.. <br /><br />I didn't like that it had only about two inches of suspension before hitting a chassis bumper...making it extremely rough riding. I don't know if it is common to have that little suspension travel but it sucked. I got terrible mpg as well...about 12 with the 351 and E4OD trans.<br /><br />The newer vans may be done differently but then you are talking $40 to $50k...<br /><br />Not worth it to me....<br /><br />As usual, YMMV...<br />Bri

 

[LucidPhotographer]

All good points. 2 inches of suspension travel seems extremely short though. I eventually would like to do some "backwoods" boondocking which would require 4wd. I like the idea of a van better than a truck/truck camper combo.

 

[josephusminimus]

You ask good questions.&nbsp; As a person who's done a lot of rough country boondocking and would never have considered owning a 2WD for the last 30-or-so years, this RV has caused me to do a lot of re-thinking about the issue.<br /><br />Eventually I concluded there's no practical compromise.&nbsp; A person's either going to have a place to live, or he's going to have a vehicle for serious boondocking, and never the twain shall meet.<br /><br />Forced me to think I might eventually get a mini-trail bike to haul along, or some other similar thing.&nbsp;

 

[bk2valve]

@Jack, That is what I do now if I think I will want to go back-country much. I carry a 1981 CT110 Honda traily on a receiver hitch rack...I don't think I will carry it this winter since unless I am pretty sure I will be using it it makes the rear doors pretty much unusable unless I take it down off the rack. If I was going to pull a trailer like you propose, I would make room on it for my traily.<br /><br />@LucidPhotographer, If you do decide on a 4wd van just be sure to give the suspension a serious going over to make sure you have good travel. SoulRaven has a 4wd van and I think he is pretty happy with it. He will likely be either at the RTR or not far away...and you could look at his rig if you make it there.<br /><br />I saw a rig a while back at the local WallyWorld that a guy had put a lot of time and energy into...it was very, very interesting. First it was a Class C...vintage 80s or early 90s...a short one with only about 18"to 24"beyond the rear axle. It was 4wd making me think that it was a conversion....although I have seen a few 4wd older class Cs, they are far and few between and I believe they are custom made.<br /><br />This one was had at least a 4" lift as well. Then it was pulling a homemade ute trailer with a traily moto, a sea kayak, some kind of gold mining rig,,,,dry washer and/or dredge...can't remember exactly....the trailer had a lift to it as well. All wheels took the same size 16" wheel and there were two spares on the trailer....<br /><br />It was pretty skookum and my impression was that he did some Baja travel, etc. I wish I could have chatted with him but I had something else going on.....<br /><br />A guy can build whatever he wants I guess.&nbsp; <br /><br />One rig I have always thought would be cool is a 90s vintage Toyota 4wd truck with a Chinook poptop camper on it.<br /><br />http://www.toyotamotorhomes.com/4_wheel_drives!.htm<br /><br />Bri

 

[Willy]

&nbsp;For back country RV'ing, a 4x4 is the way to go. A truck/camper is about the cheapest and most flexible rig to have. Personally, I don't like taking off and leaving my rig unattended and want to be nearby in case somebody messes with my stuff. Also, many of the most beautiful places I've been to couldn't be accessed without a 4x4. I carry a MTB anyway, so can do some exploring. <br />&nbsp;If I were to live in an urban setting with just occasional forays into the boonies, then a step van would be my choice. One could also do the camper van thing, and they're near ubiquitous now, but they don't really have much room and are harder to insulate properly. ..Willy. &nbsp;

 

[LucidPhotographer]

I ask good questions and yall always give good answers. I have also thought about just having a 2wd and toting along an ATV for exploring deeper but then I also think it would be nice to have my rig with me out in the middle of nowhere away from everyone else.<br /><br />The truck/camper thing may be the way I have to go. So far I have yet to even see a 4x4 van in my area on craigslist or any other site. I was looking at some 4x4 conversion kits for vans and they would be out of my reach financially. $3500 for the 4 inch kit and that is without axles. With axles it showed $6700. Those were on http://www.ujointoffroad.com/<br /><br />The main reason for this question is I want to do some traveling for my nature photography. I live in Georgia and would like to get out west into the mountains and deserts. I figure I will need a pretty capable rig to get out into some of the "unmolested" areas. Otherwise I would just convert an enclosed cargo trailer which I may try doing anyway further along down the road. <br /><br id="tinymce" class="mceContentBody " />I'm not one that would be spending a lot of time in cities unless it's just catching a little shut-eye at a Walmart on my way somewhere distant.

 

[Les H]

I helped convert a caddy stretch loimo to 4x4 one time for an advertising gimik for an auto body shop. sat on a lifted 3/4 ton custom stretched pickup frame. 35" gumbo mudders and a snow plow to boot. Nah, not practical at all, but lots of fun to ride around in!
For real though, i live in alabama, and have been in some national forests in n ga, tn, va, w va. etc 10 miles from a paved road in my bus. More importantly, I made it OUT too. Gearing, tires and the driver make all the difference in the world. Even very good first two dont make up for a bad third (not that you are--) Ive owned a bunch of 4x4's ( i have an 01 blazer now), and have only used it a few times, in deep snow or a muddy construction site. I once followed a dirt road 17 miles into the desert in az.... in a rented kia sephia 4 dr.... with the wife and kids... tried to find the end of a row of oower poles. Turned aroubd cause i i didnt tell anyone where we were, ( honestly, i didnt know!). My point i guess is, if you WANT 4x4,go for it. But do you NEED it, and the lower mpg, and higher upkeep and maint?

 

[Willy]

&nbsp;It all depends on where a person wants to go. I can think of a few places, right off the bat, that nobody's taking a 2WD and I juuust made it with my 4x4 (gold claim on the bank of the Tulameen is one). I also blew the rearend on my '90 Sierra 4x4 and, after pulling the driveshaft, drove it around as a FWD. &nbsp;<br />&nbsp;For the most part, I don't need to stick it in 4x4 buuut.. it's those few occasions I use it that make all the difference. Another handy feature is the ability to stick it in bull-low range with the front hubs unlocked. This can't generally be done with a 2WD vehicle and, with a posi rearend, makes for a better backwoods buggy. ..Willy.

 

[wrcsixeight]

No doubt, 4x4's can go places no 2wd can.<br /><br />However a 2wd Van with healthy springs and tires, and a driver who understands where &nbsp;to place those tires, and how to carry momentum, can go places that have &nbsp;some 4x4 owners scratching their heads.<br /><br />I have an open Diff on my Van, but enough weight over the back wheels, that properly aired down, I have driven through sugar sand on the beach with ease. &nbsp;The trick is finding firmer places to stop, or turn around, and to let off the gas when forward momentum stops and carry recovery gear..&nbsp;<br /><br />But there also have been a few desirable campsites I found on foot that I would never attempt with 2wd, even if it had a locker but those were all in Baja, and I no longer explore that portion of the planet, unfortunately. &nbsp;

 

[minimotos95]

if you need 4x4 to get there what are you going to do if it rains or snows hard? you have&nbsp;a few&nbsp;options: try to drive out like you got in and risk getting stuck or sliding down a sidehill,&nbsp;chain up(real chains work great in mud) or wait if you have enough supplies... i would say the smartest thing to do is to get as far as you can in 2wd on dry or damp ground and stay there that way you can hopefully still get out if&nbsp;there is&nbsp;mud or snow... or if you break a front&nbsp;driveshaft or the transfer case decides it doesn't want to go into 4hi or 4lo...<br /><br />some&nbsp;people advocate only using 4x4 after you get stuck in 2wd, then there's others that go straight to 4hi as soon as they see gravel or a little powder<br /><br />fords seem to be the most popular for 4x4 conversions, usually the 4x4 conversions are built to look cool not go offroad. some are the real deal with&nbsp;heavy duty&nbsp;axles and lots of suspension. i agree about making sure it's one actually built to go not just a street queen...<br /><br />most "unmolested areas" are&nbsp;under conservation... illegal to drive or ride on, mainly because they don't want&nbsp;anything damaged... "stay on the trail" and what not. <br />avoid running over plants, leave no trace and watch out for rangers if you do this

 

[Rollin]

One thing that&nbsp;surprised&nbsp;me when I lived out west was all the fences!&nbsp;<br /><br />Growing up in the&nbsp;mid-west, I always&nbsp;assumed&nbsp;there was all this vast open wilderness where you could just drive to.&nbsp;<br /><br />Although there is a lot of land, in reality there are few roads in&nbsp;comparison (hope that makes&nbsp;sense).<br /><br />In my&nbsp;experience there is more &nbsp;"drive-able" land in the flat/hilly areas. There is a whole lot less in the mountains.&nbsp;&nbsp;<br /><br />Hope that&nbsp;doesn't&nbsp;discourage&nbsp;you,&nbsp;because&nbsp;there are still &nbsp;lot's of places to get away from it all by&nbsp;vehicle.<br /><br />What we used to do was drive as far in as we could and back pack from there.<br /><br />Never could afford a 4x4 at the time. I remember really wanting one though. &nbsp;In reality I only got stuck once that I can remember.&nbsp;<br /><br />Having said all that, what about true 2wd with a winch?&nbsp;That's&nbsp;my plan.<br /><br />http://www.ehow.com/how_5949941_drive-2wd-off_road.html<br /><br />http://www.ehow.com/how_8300112_offroad-2wd.html

 

[josephusminimus]

I've been reading what everyone's saying on this thread and pondering it all.&nbsp; What WRCsixeight says about 2wd has a lot of truth in it in a lot of circumstances.&nbsp; And a 2wd with a winch might be something a person would be glad he had.&nbsp; A 4wd with a winch, for that matter, might also be.&nbsp; There's a WWII jeep at the top of a mountain in New Mexico someone a long time ago took into a place where a backpack would have been more prudent.&nbsp; Once a 4WD goes somewhere it can get stuck, it's not stuck the normal way of being stuck.&nbsp; Different order of magnitude.<br /><br />The USFS has put berm barriers up along a lot of old logging roads and numbered USFS roads, not to protect them, but because they've ceased maintaining them.&nbsp; Getting a 4x4 off one of those barriers, front wheels a couple of feet forward of the barrier and four feet off the ground is a task a person could enjoy while wishing he'd picked 2wd so's not to be tempted.<br /><br />My personal decision's already made, driven by economics but I'm going to enjoy watching you make yours.

 

[Lostinspace]

Rollin mentioned driving as far as you can with 2wd and then backpacking in. Another option is a small motor scoot. I have a small Yamaha XT-225cc dual sport bike I purchased several years ago. You can go anywhere a 4wd can and places a 4wd can't. And you can pack more on a small motorcycle than on your back.

A bike as small as a 100cc would would work fine. Just gear it down and put some trails tires on it and you're good to go. Carry it on your van with a hitch rack (HF sells one that can carry 500# way more than either mine or 100cc weigh). I remember a Honda 50cc that was marketed to hunters. It would go just about anywhere. Shame they don't sell it anymore.

Anyway get with a friend that likes woods riding and go out with him and you'll see the capabilities. And they are way cheaper than any 4 wheel drive and better on gas. My XT gets 76 mpg even at 9-10,000 feet elevation. A 100cc would be better than 100 mpg.

I just ask you to add it to the equation.

Wade in NW Florida

 

[josephusminimus]

Lost In Space:&nbsp; Good thinking on that.&nbsp; Back when I used to ride trail bikes a million years ago I had a Suzuki Bearcat 125 cc 2 sprocket easy change for offroad.&nbsp; Never tried to take it anywhere it refused to go.&nbsp; And it had an advantage of being able&nbsp;to lay over on its side and slide under the bottom strand of a barbed wire fence, though sometimes doing it required releasing the strand from a couple of nearby posts and lifting it enough to get the bike under.&nbsp; Then reconnecting the strand once it's under, naturally.<br /><br />Another nice thing about it was it had more staying power than a man chasing it on horseback and could go where a man chasing it in a jeep or pickup truck couldn't.&nbsp;

 

[bk2valve]

@Rollin....The reason everything is fenced in the west...or almost everything...is primarily due to grazing leases. In open range land the stock pretty much wanders everywhere. <br /><br />If you are sure it is public land...even leased for grazing, you have the right to go through a gate to get where you want to go...just remember to close it, no matter how beat up and unlikely it is actually doing it's job it is...a pissed off rancher is no small bump in the road. You will want to be sure it is BLM, BOR or USFS land though. <br /><br />I have set up a tent and camped within a stones throw of working cowboys and been fine...they pretty much ignore an old pharte on a motorcycle as long as he is not in the way.....<br /><br />On another note....unless you are intent on wheeling, as they say, I would guess you won't ever need 4wd in the desert west. You have to be really trying to go someplace ridiculous. If you just let some air out of your tires, you can navigate some pretty soft stuff...if it rains while you are in the outback, you better count on sitting right where you are until it dries out. If you have never met caliche, you don't want to meet it when it is wet...<br /><br />Caliche is a nasty form of clay-like mineralized soil that not only gets slippery as all get out but will build up on your tires til you are mired to your belly pan with stuff that hardens like rock when dry.....<br /><br />Much more than 4wd you need good sense and a lot of patience....<br /><br />If you think 4wd is essential I encourage you to have it but I can tell you I have watched a beatup old van full of campesinos in Mexico go right around a stuck 4wd truck and motor on up the hill. They got up to a level spot , piled out and the guys all went back to help push the 4wd out of trouble....<br /><br />I totally support what Les and wrc68 says. If you want to go places not usually gone to, spend a lot of time in questionable country and learn how to drive it.<br /><br />I lived about 15 years in Alaska never owning a 4wd. About 7 more with it and found that I rarely used it. I also have a 4wd truck and FourWheel camper and when we drove it throughout Mexico Belize and Guatemala, I only used the 4wd with the front hubs unlocked and to make use of the Low Range on some really, really steep gravel roads and that was about twice....and later met a couple on an old VW van in the same place (Sempuc Champey) so it wasn't really necessary.<br /><br /> If I were a surfer and planned on remote surfing in Mexico I would want it I think....or a prospector, etc.<br /><br />As usual...YMMV<br />bri<br /><br />

 

[josephusminimus]

I've admired these from a distance for about 40 years, never owned one.&nbsp;&nbsp; They're slow, 2wd &nbsp;workhorses, go anywhere and some even carry spare drinking water inside the wheel.&nbsp;<br /><br /><img rel="lightbox" src="http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzY4WDEwMjQ=/$(KGrHqF,!k8FC4G!6+M8BQu-6T!4Fw~~60_3.JPG" class="bbc_img" /><br /><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2005.../290825031810?pt=ATVs&amp;hash=item43b685d082" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2005.../290825031810?pt=ATVs&amp;hash=item43b685d082</a><br /><br />Short of owning a pack animal there mightn't be any object on the planet better able to perform the intended job of getting where a person might find 'undisturbed' nature to photograph.<br /><br />Not likely to find it, though.&nbsp;

 

[bk2valve]

In 1995 Loren Upton crossing the Darien Gap with a Rokon....He had already done it with his CJ5 in 85. <br /><br />At the same time he did it in CJ, a man named Ed Culberson rode and drug his BMW R80 G/S across with some bad blood with Loren. Loren now claims to be the first motorcycle across it. It is a mysterious place indeed...and the death of a man who wintered there with Loren is in the balance of the mystery....<br /><br />A good book is Ed's book, "Obsessions Die Hard" TeakWood press. Ed is now gone over the rainbow bridge....<br />Bri

 

[Willy]

&nbsp;Those things are damn expensive.. but soooo skookum! Even used, they cost an arm and a leg. Wouldn't be hard to build though, if you have some experience welding, and a front belt drive would be pretty easy to implement. ..Willy.

 

[LucidPhotographer]

I guess I am one of those that would rather have it and not need it than need it and hot have it. Yall do make a lot of sense though. A dual sport bike would be nice in case of a break down of the van/rv. Also whoever mentioned the fact that in most public lands you have stay on already made roads is right, I remember reading that somewhere online. I suppose an AWD vehicle would be decent to have, that way I wouldnt be too tempted to get into those "hairy" spots and be stuck.<br /><br />Jack, those bikes are very impressive. I have not see one in person but plenty of video and it would be great to have.