30 gallon metal drum as greywater tank.

[compassrose]

I see a problem with your drum idea. If you are laying it on it's side the you will have a ground clearance problem. If upright, you can put the drain in the flat bottom like a sink drain (will drop your line down to 1-1/2 or 1-1/4" pipe ... use an "agricultural" 1/4 turn ball valve on it to open/close) and mount it inside your vehicle. I have 20" skirts on my bus with a lot of road clearance below that. I will not use drums. This is what I am doing. Will it cost more? Maybe. Probably. Will it fit where I need it to fit? Most definitely. Maybe it will give you some ideas...

Please keep in mind that this is in a 40 ft fulltime residence skoolie conversion. It is NOT a stealthy van. I am about as stealthy as a pink elephant with purple polka-dots...

I currently have a too small RV black tank and no grey tanks (throwing away what I have). Once I get into my daughter's back yard, I will drop the too small RV black tank and build two new tanks. One grey, one black. They will be made from 1/2" exterior plywood | 3/4" rigid foam house insulation |1/2" exterior plywood | vinyl pond liner glued to plywood with PL375 adhesive (seams will be glued up with vinyl shower pan liner glue there a 1X2 (3/4" x1-1/2") frame sandwiched between the plywood along with the insulation - everything will be glued & screwed together). I will be able to mount the fittings more securely as well (solid block of wood where the fittings attach). The exterior will be painted with two coats of Deckover that I bought for $30 ( 5 gallon bucket from the oops! counter @ Home Depot) to seal against the road grime and spray. It is a variation of the very old Fiberglass-on-Plywood tank building method that many of the coach converters use. And I can make the tanks fit where I want the tanks to fit. I'm running SuperStrut lengthwise off of the floor framing and that will be used to hang water & waste tanks as well as LP tanks, LP generator and an air compressor (I have REALLY big tires). The Superstrut is bolted thru the floor frames every 27" (where an "L" shaped framing member already has a couple holes drilled into it) and the nuts have a dab of EU6000 to keep them from unthreading due to road vibration (yet I can still get them off again... just not easily). I do have a question in my mind that I will need to make a decision on (and some measurements). I have a large space at the rear of the bus that will hold nothing... I could run my grey water to a tank there. It would give me a much larger grey tank and a much larger black tank. A much larger black tank would be nice since I have a residential toilet (replaced toilet lid with oak one I already had that matched the wall-covering & used a foam sewer seal) and currently the black tank will only hold 8 flushes (estimate about a 10 gallon black tank). When I am on full hookups, I bypass my waste holding tanks. Having a residential toilet allows me that luxury.

Like I said, I am not a van. But maybe what I am doing will give you some ideas that you can use in your van. Good luck. BTW, here is a link to just one of many tank calculators that you can use to play with numbers. Panner has a tank specification calculator will let you design a tank based on capacity (gallons)and you can download it to your computer to use offline. On Panner, to use a cylinder, visualize the pipe/drum standing on end, the bottom is always "FLAT"

 

[Almost There]

Compassrose - when you're trying to use that too small black tank, place some bricks in the toilet tank to take up some space. It's an old trick to cut down on water usage. You'll have to play with how many bricks you can use before you get to the point where the toilet doesn't flush effectively.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Compassrose, while I am sure the plans you described would work, it certainly sounds like it would be a lot of work to build it.  I was wondering if you were familiar with the MANY tanks available from someone like this: 

 http://www.plastic-mart.com/category/34/rv-holding-tanks

They'll even custom install whatever fittings you want, wherever you want them.  How much do you really expect to save over buying one of these pre-made tanks?

Also - and you may already be familiar with this, but I'll throw it out there for anyone else reading this thread and doing homemade builds - you could arrange things so that the graywater tank either drains DIRECTLY, or drains THROUGH the blackwater tank.

The later serves two purposes.  If you drain the blackwater tank first, then run the graywater through it, it does a really good job flushing out the blackwater tank.  The other reason is, if the graywater tank is getting full, but the blackwater tank isn't , you could run some of the graywater into it to extend your boondocking time.  Of course, for the later to work the outlet on the graywater tank will need to be higher than the blackwater tank for obvious reasons . . .

Regards
John

 

[highdesertranger]

I posted a link awhile back that lists a bunch of rv salvage yards nationwide. https://vanlivingforum.com/showthread.php?tid=13198&highlight=used+rv+parts here's the link. highdesertranger

 

[compassrose]

I am familiar with the websites that offer the various tanks. They won't fit and custom is out of my price range. More to the point, I do not want an RV tank that is unable to be repairs. Most RV tanks are polyethylene which is difficult to repair.

As for the amount of work to build a custom tank... I did not buy an RV. The bus is self converted. That means David & I converted it. When I say David & I, I do mean David and I. I actively helped to convert the thing. I did most of the work too since David was working the food cart while I worked on the bus.

I may be a "girl" but I am well versed in construction. Been doing it since 1979.

 

[rvpopeye]

Compassrose
I've seen your work in the bus and I think your woodworking skills are quite good !
I have no doubt you can build some strong boxes and convert them into tanks , not a difficult job IMHO.

I think something like that would be a good affordable option for debit servus instead of a metal drum .

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

As for the amount of work to build a custom tank... I did not buy an RV. The bus is self converted. That means David & I converted it. When I say David & I, I do mean David and I. I actively helped to convert the thing. I did most of the work too since David was working the food cart while I worked on the bus.

I may be a "girl" but I am well versed in construction. Been doing it since 1979.

Wow.  Chip on your shoulder, much?

I was not trying to suggest that a "mere woman" couldn't do it.  I was trying to suggest that it sounded like a LOT of - possibly unnecessary - work.  Certainly more than **I** would do unless I couldn't find some kind of commercial tank that I could make work.

But then, I'm widely regarded as being lazy.  Just ask anybody in my family. 

Have yourself a nice day.

Regards
John

 

[ZoNiE]

A GREY water tank should not have solids. You may want to consider putting a screen over your sink drain. In my Trailer, the Grey water tank effluent smells much worse than the black tank. I try to screen the sink drain, and I use the deodorant in both now.

Grey water from a kitchen sink can harbor bacteria that can make you very sick, and it doesn't take long to form. I wouldn't want it hanging around very long. For this reason, it is usually illegal to dump grey water on the ground as well. You are better off cleaning your dishes by scraping solids into the trash and washing in a tote/tub and if you must dump it, toss it over a large area in an uninhabited, dirt area. At least it will mostly evaporate and won't get poisonous. It's when it is allowed to hang around is the problem, and a rusting steel drum will not help.

 

[ZoNiE]

Compassrose, you may want to reconsider your tank design. One little pinhole, leak, crack, inside will turn your tank into a rotting mess, and you won't know it until it is too late.

Look for a plastics fabricator in your area. You may be surprised what You can have welded up out of polypropylene, PVC, or PE. If you use PVC, you can solvent weld fittings, and make easy repairs. The materials alone in your design may cost as much.

Here is another resource: http://customroto.com/rvsearch.asp
You can find 100 gal for as little as $250.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[compassrose]

Well, I won't know how much the materials will cost for these particular tanks. But I do know what they cost when I had priced out fabricated tanks compared to custom homemade tanks on the Eagle 05 we used to own. The difference in pricing was great. And those tanks were not all that oddly sized. And I would still need to insulate as I have boiled an uninsulated black tank dry while traveling in the summer heat as well as box them for protection from road debris.

I will do what I have researched. I'm pretty sure if the tank springs a leak, I will know about it. I most certainly knew with the POS RV tanks started leaking.

Please ignore the postings of the crazy woman.

 

[GotSmart]

Please ignore the postings of the crazy woman.

I am enjoying this!!! 

The give and give is the only way we learn!

If everyone agreed and only drove blue cars, we would have a blue carnation. 

It is the willingness to do different things that has created things like Airplanes, Disneyland, and BLT 's

 

[debit.servus]

If I am going to repurpose a 30 gallon metal drum, it has to be kind of tall and slender. I am still thinking about how this can be built. If I could seam weld I could build a metal box. Perhaps instead of a metal drum I could repurpose an old propane tank.

The cheapest (and within my capabilities) option I can see right now is to buy a 30/25/20 gallon plastic drum (whatever is the slimmest) and find some means to securely mount it under the van & behind the gas tank. To mount it perhaps use some supersized U-bolts with thick metal plates as washers (spreading the weight)? Then add the agricultural valve another poster wrote about with sink tubing coming in via a standard garden hose fitting. Protect the underside of the plastic drum with truck bed liner. Heat I am not really worried about, as long as it doesn't get hot enough to melt the plastic. As for cold, I do not plan to be much in sub-zero temperatures too much; I figure I could pour some rubbing alchohol down the sink drain when the cold comes to prevent the entire tank from becoming a block of ice.

BTW, the legnth from the underside of the metal van floor to the flat driveway ground I believe is 19" (I need to take measurements again and write them down this time). I measured from the underside of the metal van floor to the lowest point on the gas tank I believe to be 14".

When it comes to these projects and products, I am willing to pay a little more if it will be noticably or significantly better.

I did think about the wood box idea.

 

[highdesertranger]

I still say you would be dollars ahead if you where to get a tank for this purpose instead of trying to build your own. you do realize that a square/rectangular tank of the same capacity as a round tank would be much smaller. also metal is going to be subject to corrosion and rust. also what are the laws about dumping the contents with your home brew antifreeze. highdesertranger

 

[Gary68]

new/used plastic rv tanks should be pretty easy to come by

 

[debit.servus]

I still say you would be dollars ahead if you where to get a tank for this purpose instead of trying to build your own. 

     Do you suggest revisiting the old gas tank idea? Pick an identical gas tank and somehow mounting it behind the existing gas tank, would be a good and low cost choice. A strong plastic tank which I know already fits, comes with support struts, and a low point for a valve. PLUS It holds 35 gallons!

new/used plastic rv tanks should be pretty easy to come by

     I believe this is a case where this item is cheaper to buy in a physical store than online, because of the shipping costs. I searched YAHOO for "RV tank dimension search", first two results came up was plasticmart and pplmotorhomes. PlasticMart is too expensive, PPLmotorhomes was reasonable, they do not specify their dimension order (Legnth Width Height) in their tank dimensions. So if there is some low-key online store that sells low-priced new and especially used RV tanks, I am not finding it on a web search.

you do realize that a square/rectangular tank of the same capacity as a round tank would be much smaller. 

     Yes, I know. I do know that square tanks need thicker walls and/or external reinforcement.

also metal is going to be subject to corrosion and rust.

     I believe I wrote in my original post that if I were to use a metal tank I would need to line the inside with something to prevent rust.

also what are the laws about dumping the contents with your home brew antifreeze.  highdesertranger

     I don't know.

     Until I go fulltime, most of the time the tank will not get used. For trips to the Burning Man playa, where it's pack it in/pack it out. This is what I want 35 gallons for. Enough greywater compacity to store multiple friends water use for 7-10 days on a dry desert lakebed. It is also to get my moneys worth when it comes to paying to dump it. Who likes paying $7-15 to dump 5 to 10 gallons of wastewater. It also saves me time by not having to manage the greywater so often.

     In general, living spaces are comfortable not just by the big things, but the little things that add up. I am modifying the van and improving it by simplifying, automating, and organizing in many ways like a conventional house.

 

[highdesertranger]

I thought I posted this on this thread, maybe another. I don't know what area you are in but here's a list of used RV parts suppliers. http://www.gypsyjournal.net/RV Surplus and salvage outlets.html . are you gong to burning man this year? highdesertranger

 

[debit.servus]

... are you gong to burning man this year?  highdesertranger

Yes; I am attending Burning Man 2015, my second year. If I can afford it I would prefer this greywater mod be built before heading back to Black Rock City this year.

Would you recommend the old gas tank idea for a greywater tank? It looks like the best (and possibly cheaper) option.

If I had money this thread wouldn't be started by me.

 

[highdesertranger]

well a couple of questions, what are you going to line the tank with to keep it from rotting out or is this just a short term thing? the reason I ask is because a gas tank will not last long holding water. 2nd question how will you empty a gas tank? there is no provision for a dump valve on a gas tank. if this is just for occasional use why not get a poly drum and just transport it in the van. or one of these http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=i:aps,k:portable waste tanks rv . I use one of the latter when in areas where you are not allowed to dump grey water. they dump real easy. highdesertranger

 

[debit.servus]

well a couple of questions,  what are you going to line the tank with to keep it from rotting out or is this just a short term thing?  the reason I ask is because a gas tank will not last long holding water.  2nd question how will you empty a gas tank? there is no provision for a dump valve on a gas tank.  if this is just for occasional use why not get a poly drum and just transport it in the van.  or one of these http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=i:aps,k:portable waste tanks rv .  I use one of the latter when in areas where you are not allowed to dump grey water.  they dump real easy.  highdesertranger

The first question, I would look for a plastic gas tank identical to the one under the van. Would I need to line the inside of a plastic gas tank? Read my van modification thread linked in my signature. The second question, I would drill a hole in the lowest point possible to put an agricultural valve in for quick dumping. Or utilize the fuel inlet opening (where gas comes through to fill up the tank), for a purpose. Modify the top opening cap with an inlet barb fitting, then pipe the kitchenette sink drain to it. Bam! Greywater system for the rest of the life of the van.

 

[highdesertranger]

no you would not have to line a plastic tank. but you do have to clean it out the first time to remove ALL traces of gas. I mean ALL unless you want to mess up some ones dump station. 2nd if you do all your off road driving on playas that would work with the valve but if you ever wanted to go somewhere else off road that valve is going to be dangerously exposed. have you ever been to the hot springs next to the playa at burning man that would be a no go for your van, that valve would not make the trip. highdesertranger