2020 RTR location??https://www.cheaprvliving.com/forums/images/smilies/huh.gif

[djpotts2554]

:huh: Any word as to when and where the 2020 RTR will be held? I want to plan my vacation to coincide with the two weeks of the event. It's only three months away.

 

[Suanne]

We are still waiting on the BLM. Our most promising location has the BLM staff estimating Cost Share (HOWA's portion of BLM's staffing cost for the event). We want to make sure we can afford it … preliminary Cost Share numbers exceed $20,000 (which RTRs have never paid for before).

 

[Qxxx]

 … preliminary Cost Share numbers exceed $20,000 (which RTRs have never paid for before).

Wow, wow, wow  :huh: Not completely surprising, as there are estimates that it costs the gobmint $100,000 and more to deal with Rainbow family gatherings.

FWIW, a while back I made a suggestion that maybe RTR could be located "inside" La Posa South, between the area of the last toilet (near the water and dumpster station) and where YARC camp is located. This is about a 1 mile distance, and very few people camp there, even during the Big Show as the roads are rough. [font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]La Posa South is already setup to handle 1000s of RVs. [/font]

Many informal groups of Class-As go into the main LPS area and congregate during the Big Show. I figure RTR could have several smallish encampments and local seminars over the mile distance. In addition, of course, several groups use Roadrunner south of LPS for their get togethers: eg hamfest, busfest.

So, just a thought.

 

[Suanne]

BLM has informed us that RTR gatherings within the Colorado River District, which is where the La Posa LTVAs are located, will cost us $6 per person, per day. So, some quick and dirty math, for 10 days and 10,000 participants, that would be $600,000. Not affordable.

FYI: After this change in fee structure, I still applied at several of the Field Offices within that district (Special Use Permit and detailed Operations Plans and event maps). I demonstrated that the previous fee structure should be re-instated, but did not successfully change their minds. The $6/person/day remained the ruling of the District Office management.

And, in my discussions with the BLM reps at the Field Offices, I both requested and proposed other location options. The only place that was offered to us us as a possibility was exactly the same place we had it last January, but with a cap on attendance for next year at the $6/person/day.

Note: We are looking into other pay-for venues. And we are looking at adding multiple smaller gatherings throughout the year. We're evolving.

 

[Cammalu]

Not fair for y’all to take the whole burden. $6 a day is surely affordable for all. That comes with water and bathrooms and trash.

As this grows I think you’ll have to start charging. It’s just not sustainable.

 

[rollinghaus]

As we all know, nothing is really for free. Half the time being a vandweller we are in a gray area as it is. To have it as an ever increasing event you would have to charge for the event. Limit the size and that's it. Nothing is permanent nor last forever. I have never made a RTR and if the event ceases to exist perhaps it will be for the best. Big Brother is always watching and perhaps it's time to disappear.

 

[highdesertranger]

I just sent Bob an email this suggestion was in it.

rent the park in Quartzsite and have the seminars there. they rent the park all the time. in this way there is not one big organized RTR camp and basically take the BLM out of the equation. everybody can camp in smaller groups wherever they want. no more BLM hassle, no more port-a-pottie rental and no more dumpster fees, those fees can go to the park rental.

or plan B rent a bunch of short term spaces at Tyson Wells or one of the other outdoor vending areas. and not only hold the seminars there but set up the fundraising booths there. this would give you much greater exposure and basically more exposure is what you want in fund raising.

a few announcements could be made on KBUX the Quartzsite radio station. I believe the Newspaper "The Desert Messenger" would run ads for free because of the non-profit status of HOWA.

highdesertranger

 

[Qxxx]

I just sent Bob an email this suggestion was in it.

rent the park in Quartzsite and have the seminars there.  they rent the park all the time.  in this way there is not one big organized RTR camp and basically take the BLM out of the equation.  everybody can camp in smaller groups wherever they want.  no more BLM hassle,  no more port-a-pottie rental and no more dumpster fees,  those fees can go to the park rental.

"rent the park". Excellent idea. Although parking might be an issue for a mob of 5000 RVs.
"[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]everybody can camp in smaller groups wherever they want". Excellent idea. 
[/font]"no port-a-pottie rental". Excellent idea.

$600,000 is nuts. There could be some notification of where various specialty groups, like tent campers, music, singles, whoever, are camping, so people could always visit those areas over the 10 day span to see what's happening. The old diehards can always go out to the old place in Scaddan Wash.

 

[highdesertranger]

there is a ton of parking at the park. however I see your point and hope there would be carpools. highdesertranger

 

[bullfrog]

I think the caravans are a great way to disperse as well as the many that use the long term areas like the Y.A.R.C. and form more areas of interest groups there like ham radio, rock hound, music, party, arts and meditation with general locations or gathering points identified and using a local transportation company,church or school system to have buses make daily runs from and to those areas and the park would work well. I along with many others I believe would enjoy being able to walk to a pickup area and be shuttled to the park rather dealing with the dust and dirt roads and the less the damage to the BLM roads and area the better. Meeting people on the bus that are camped close by would help form more relationships, sort of a mobile campfire. Blm land is plentiful and with all the organized programs conducted in the park it would be the same as the big tent gathering. Great idea HDR!

 

[Elbear1]

Seems like the problems started when it was trademarked. Now its monetized when it was just supposed to be free camping, some speeches, and a potluck.

Maybe just hold it at the slabs.

 

[bullfrog]

Just think how many vans build outs you could do with what will be spent on BLM permits. Just let small groups like caravans camp out on BLM and larger groups use the long term areas with individuals footing the bill and a fund for those that can't afford the fee there. Working with the town of Quartzsite should be much cheaper and easier than the BLM.

 

[highdesertranger]

I have already heard back. it's a no go they don't want to listen. highdesertranger

 

[Qxxx]

C'est la vie.

 

[bullfrog]

I wonder what the reason is for wanting to use so much money to satisfy the BLM that could be saved by simply changing the format/grouping of the event so that that money could be used to a better end. Large seminar type gatherings in this day and age are better served by the internet and then reinforced by small personalized groups like the caravans. Large sound systems/video screens/stages and soon elevated seating will be required to do presentations effectively. Crowds are now getting so large the BLM will start to require on site law enforcement/public safety/EMT personnel to maintain order and site road repair after. Getting away from trying to get the BLM to do something they apparently don't want to deal with and working with a town like Quartzsite or one that wants what we have to offer sounds much better. Maybe we should start looking at buying one of those large TV evangelist's broadcasting facilities with a van build out assembly line and acres of land for volunteers to stay on. If bigger is better for the RTR then so would be the build outs. When we start looking at $200,000 for a place to gather buying a permanent piece of land starts to make sense. I bet HOWA could get a land grant from the government seeing as how much they put into low cost housing!

 

[VanDwellerMod]

I've read many good ideas in the forum for different venues and structures for replacing the "traditional" RTR.  We've got some clever thinkers and problem solvers here. I'd like to share some of my thinking as well.

Having been at the RTRs since their beginning, its purpose to build community and help those new to the lifestyle remains as relevant now as it was in 201l.  The RTRs event structure has proven itself scalable from 40 to many thousands of participants.  The mobile community's desire for a large event has not diminished, only grown.  

In contrast, large gatherings like the RTRs are not for everyone.  So, other types of gatherings, in addition to our traditional RTRs, are just as important.  One type of gathering won't be right for all nomads, all of the time.

For some folks, the Caravans are just the right size.  For others, one or two quiet companions are perfect for a camping group.  Sometimes, nomads go totally solo.  And, one individual may want all of the above at different times, as well as to be a part of the large yearly RTR.  

We are a diverse community, much larger than HOWA or CRVL.  The part of the mobile community I want to be with today, may not be the same part or even the same size or segment of the mobile community I want to be with tomorrow.  As individuals, our desires and needs change day to day, season to season, year to year.

So, the RTRs are not meant to be a one size fits all ... neither are the Caravans ... or this forum ... or the Build Outs ... or Facebook Pages ... or any of the many other formats or venues that we in our mobile community utilize.  We are vandwellers, RV'ers, vanlifers, car dwellers, full- and part-timers.  We are old, young, rich, poor, white, black, large, small; we are diverse.

So, instead of replacing the RTR format, which remains in high demand among many within our community, let's add to it.  Let's develop and encourage other opportunities in addition to the RTRs so that every nomad can find their people in a venue that suits them best at any given time.

That is, it's not the RTR or a different type of gathering ... rather, it's the RTR and many other different type of gatherings.

Myself and my colleagues continue to work with the public land's managing powers to bring the RTRs to the mobile community once again.  Concurrently, we are offering many other type of community building opportunities both in-person and online, to:  help those new to the lifestyle, assist folks in need, and encourage a kind caring mobile community.

I personally consider spin-off gatherings or groups from CRVL or HOWA a total and complete success -- other forums, other camps, other caravans, other YouTube channels, other blogs, other gatherings.

 

[LoveCareThinkDo]

Well, I think I am going to save them money, and just not go any more. There one time was enough for me. I think the goal of mentoring newbies could be more effectively handled by having special purpose caravans now. 

Perhaps I'll start a new thread...

 

[RVTravel]

Sorry hdr...I liked your suggestions.

 

[highdesertranger]

Bob wants everyone in one camp. which just happens to be the main reason for all the troubles and all the expenses. it's Bob's show he can run it anyway he wants. highdesertranger

 

[owl]

Large events on public land may be wearing out their welcome at least as far as willingness of government to pick up the added expense. Events like burning man are charging up to $1400 for advance tickets, $425 regular. As the expense of the event is shifted to the organizers they are left with no option but to charge participants a fee or cover the expense out of their pockets. A multi day event with attendance in the thousands is going to be quite expensive. If an individual or group is responsible for that cost, other than admission, where is that money going to come from? When admission for an event is charged on public land the government wants an even greater share. Ditto commercial sales at the event. With the incredible pressure on the area around Quartzsite already I can understand the government wanting to try and move events to other less used public land. I think buying private property would bring its own set of expenses and headaches. The answer, as I see it, is to return to the original concept of a small gathering, small footprint. These could be held at different places, different times thus giving participants more freedom as to which and where they could attend. This of course would require a loosening of central control which may not be a bad thing.