Winter driving in flagstaff

[unicutie]

I'm doing my homework tonight on how to prepare for winter. I am from Texas mind you. I would like some advice on the tire situation. I read that flag gets significant snow beginning around December. That gives me a few months hopefully. I'm thinking that it would be best to get snow tires ; some questions :i will be spending more time in town, so should i look at winter tires? Or maybe swap for all terrain and get rid of my ht tires? If i go with snow tires would it be terribly unsafe to get them 2 at a time? I would get all 4 before it starts getting bad. Or maybe get some chains for now and save for a set in a few months.  If i got off road tires that were decent in snow i could just leave them on. But safety is important to me, if i wrecked i would be screwed.

. I'm going to try to van dwell. If i work at night i can sleep in the day when it's warmer and not worry about getting in trouble with parking, and be warm in a building at night when it's
coldest. Even buying a lot of propane i think it will be cheaper than trying to find a room.

I'm thinking about how to rearrange to maximize weight over the rear axle. Also about keeping my water from freezing. Maybe a foam box with a hand warmer tossed in our something. Or a small jug of boiled water. The lowest it seems to get is around zero F for the most part so i dunno how fast a 5gal would freeze on those nights uninsulated. I have ideas for insulating the walls and stuff, and there's a propane heater I'm gonna get. I still need solar &  bats too but that may have to wait.

 

[TrainChaser]

Whatever you do, remember this: Here in the ripoff state of WA, tire dealers will sell you snow tires, and discard your regular tires, so you have to buy a new set in spring. They mainly do this with women. Presumably, they will do the same thing with your snow tires. DON'T LET THEM DO THIS! (unless your old tires are bad and you were planning on buying others when you change back). And don't ask them to store them for you. Make sure that you get whichever tires they are taking off put back in the van.

Also, have them point out the year on the tires. Some places will sell people (women, esp) old tires that have been sitting around for 5 or 6 years.

(I've learned a lot of new cons since I moved here!)

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Tires marked M+S ( or M&S, M/S, MS) are all season tires that are approved for use in mud and light snow.  They can be left on all year around.

TRUE snow tires are marked with a graphic mountain and snowflake symbol, and are suitable for use in extreme winter conditions like blizzards.

The rubber compound used in snow tires is different than the rubber compound used in all season tires.  It's formulated to maximize traction in very cold conditions, AND SHOULD NOT BE LEFT ON THE VEHICLE WHEN REGULAR TEMPERATURES ARE HIGHER THAN 45 DEGREES.

Will you have someplace (like a storage unit) to keep the snow tires?  Cause trying to run snow tires in AZ in the summer would be a really bad idea, probably even a dangerous idea.

If you do have someplace to store snow tires, I would recommend that you get them mounted and balanced on junkyard rims.  You'll save money, long term.

 

[Stretch]

Any particular reason you've decided to winter in Flagstaff? I fear that, as a Texan, you're in for a rude awakening regarding winter - especially winter in the mountains. Unless you have a job that's holding you there (though if I remember from other posts you're mobile), I'd consider going to a lower elevation, at least.

 

[highdesertranger]

I have seen feet of snow on the ground in Flag during the winter, also bitter cold temps. think single digits. highdesertranger

 

[unicutie]

Yea i may have a job here, i will find out in a couple of days, that's why I am considering staying. I've looked up the historical weather data and seen the single digits. Yikes. I've considered finding a room. And yea I've also considered wintering in sedona, just that the van dwelling situation there is a bit more stark.

 

[unicutie]

from what i'm reading around the net, flagstaff keeps their roads pretty well plowed in town. I have all season tires on my van. dunlop rover ht in the back and some cheaper ones in the front. I think i'm gonna stick with that for the time being. and maybe invest in some good snow chains. Drive really slow after this winter I'm going to most likely look for some land in the desert to buy, so I will want off road tires, I may save for that instead and skip the winter tires. If I'm mainly going 15mph in town anyway and doing minimal driving as possible, it might not be a big issue. I have big chrome bumpers after all heheh. I've been studying winter triving techniques but Maybe once it starts snowing I'll find a lot and practice

 

[highdesertranger]

the trick is getting from where you parked to the plowed roads. highdesertranger

 

[unicutie]

heh i gotcha. well, what happens if you drive with chains on when it's not very snowy on the roads, or it's icy? like say there's a foot of snow in the parking lot but the roads are plowed.

 

[RVtrek]

I grew up driving in MN winter and we never had snow tires.  We always used all-season tires, and the only vehicle we every had any troubles with was my dad's pickup (2-wheel drive) going up the driveway with nothing loaded in back.  Other than that, we're good.

You didn't mention what kind of vehicle you're driving.  Is it front-wheel, rear-wheel, or all-wheel drive?  Makes a big difference.

My suggestion: Get some nice new all-season tires, and don't go out driving in blizzards.  Give the snow plows a couple hours to do their thing.  And DRIVE SLOW!  And DON'T TAILGATE!  Give people lots of space, way more than you think is reasonable.  Accelerate slowly.  Brake slowly.  Once you master those basics, you'll be fine.

Then, when you've got the basics down, go find a huge empty parking lot right after a fresh coating of snow, and push your van to its limits.  Try braking hard, see what happens.  Try turning too fast while in motion, see what happens.  Try accelerating when turning, see what happens.  You'll learn what your vehicle does in the snow and what its limits are.  It's a great education.

 

[highdesertranger]

remember with true tire chains your max speed is 25mph. also many locations don't want you using chains if there is no snow or ice on the roads leaving you with the never ending cycle of chain-uo, chain-off, chain-up, chain-off, etc, etc............. gets real old real fast. highdesertranger

 

[unicutie]

yea i guess there's no perfect solutions, that is, not until i get my spaceship built.

Rvtrek thanks. Yea I have all season's on there, still pretty new with good tread, I got new tires less than 6 months ago. They both have some little sipes in the tread. My van is a one-ton long wheel base RWD van. I've read that LWB is a plus. I'm gonna move my heavier stuff more towards the back and grab a sand bag or two. Maybe I should scoop up some sand and rocks and stuff while it's still dry.

I worried about monsoon season too, and getting stuck in the mud. But it was not nearly what I was thinking it was gonna be. All i did was, not get into mud The one time I did get stuck, I unstuck myself with pine needles and chunks of bark and sticks.

All in all there haven't been all too many places I've been unable to go, except for extreme rocks and mud right after it rained. That said I would love to have a big monster truck 4x4 van with big mean tires I'd go everywhere. Maybe throw on some pontoons while i'm being fantastical, say see-ya to all you land lubbers

 

[tx2sturgis]

Staying in your van is gonna be tough...and chains are a pain. (See what I did there?)

BTW, Arizona approved the autosock:

http://autosock.us/

 

[TrainChaser]

HDR: "the trick is getting from where you parked to the plowed roads."

He's right. I used to work w/railroad crews, and could take my Chev Suburban home. Eighteen inches of snow between my driveway and the plowed road WITH 4WD. The snow kept building up in front of the bumper! Another nuisance was trying to get around all the abandoned cars left in the road. Mother Nature has an interesting sense of humor.

Those 'socks' look interesting!

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Another Minnesota winter driver: What RVtrek said.  

There are now a few all-terrain tires that meet the 'Severe Snow Service Rating':  https://blog.tirerack.com/blog/hunt...t-the-industrys-severe-snow-service-standards  I would look at one of these for all around driving.  I have Cooper Discoverer AT3s on my truck and go anywhere I want to (including out on unplowed lakes to ice fish) without problems and they aren't severe snow service rated.

As to cold weather: if you are not used to the cold you are going to freeze your a$$ off the first winter.  I would definitely have a Plan B.  It is very hard to sleep if you are cold.  

If I were going to sleep in a poorly heated van I would get the best winter sleeping bag I could, rated at least 10º lower than the lowest temperatures I expect.  Don't get down, down will soak up water vapor like a sponge and be worthless as insulation.  You will have lots of condensation from breathing.  Don't breathe into your sleeping bag, it will get wet.

Get a couple of hot water bottles for bedtime heat.  Filled with hot water, stuck in a sock, one down at your feet, one for your midriff or back; I use Nalgene 1 liter bottles.  Wear wool socks.  Wear a hat or a hoodie or get used to using the hood on the sleeping bag.  Wear mittens if it helps; I side sleep with my arm under my pillow so I do.  In real cold weather I make a small tent for my head out of a polypropylene throw; makes a small cozy room for my head and my breath warms it up.

Two liters of water should be enough for the day.  Since you are in town it will be easy to replenish; take them to work to fill at night.  Extra liters of water shouldn't freeze overnight unless it gets below -20º although the water could get slushy.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

As far as sleeping bags go, understand that the various ratings, 20, 0, -20, etc. are SURVIVAL ratings.

In a -20 bag, you are guaranteed you won't freeze to death.  Nobody said you'd be comfortable at that temperature.

 

[HumbleBeginnings]

Shop for sleeping bags that have EN comfort ratings. Those numbers are more trustworthy than the marketing numbers in the name of a sleeping bag. Here's a pic of an example. Find an EN comfort rating 10 degrees below your expected environment and you should be golden. 

 

[CautionToTheWind]

If it was me, I'd use studded tires (store the other 2 rear tires) -- permitted in Arizona from Oct. 1 to May 1

I'm from North Dakota and that's all I used in winter. 4x4's end up in the ditch as I drive right by. Over-confidence got the best of them.

Concrete interchanges and bridges can be unknowingly dicier and propensity for ice. I'm more concerned with ice/black ice than snow. You will get a road feel of the rear end wanting to break loose, that's the time to slow down. I remember Oct. 2016 driving with family in my cousin's Town Car (rear wheel drive) taking the scenic SE road outside of Flag, came upon heavy snowing and temperature was of concern (around freezing), going 55 I noticed the rear end was breaking loose, I slowed down to 35 mpg. Depends on how your vehicle manages; each is different.

 

[OutdoorFT]

Single digits isnt that bad. As long as you have a warm home or van to get into. past few years have been brutal in the NE. couple nights were -11 when I got out of work. wind chill is what makes it really bad.

I have a buddy who is a mechanic and big into vehicles...also a Northeast person. he told me to get all terrain tires for year round usage. Granted my BFG ko2s are noisy as all get out on pavement, I plow through half a foot of snow without breaking a sweat.

 

[bullfrog]

Housing costs are outrageous in flag due to NAU mainly, there are some campgrounds that are less than a room but still way high. As others have said roads get plowed but the bank created on either side sometimes makes it almost impossible to get to the road without a lot of shoveling. The coldest I've been in years was a couple of years ago in flag fortunately I was just passing through. It would have to be a good paying job as finding a room for less than $600 a person is difficult especially with high utilities in winter. Maybe your work place has a place you could park with an electrical outlet?