What's (watts?) normal?

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Stephen

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We are on our maiden voyage in our 1993 RV. We are learning and discovering faster than I would really like. One of the things I am discovering is that our house battery doesn't seem to last as long as I thought it would. Boondocking, we don't run the lights but use solar rechargeable ones. The house battery only is used for running the water pump and charging our 2 iPads and 2 phones. In two days, the battery is down to half and I have to run the engine to charge it back up. What I want to know is if that is normal or should I be looking for a drain somewhere.

I want to get solar, at least portable, but it's tough to do while on the road. Any help would be great!
 
Use a meter and measure the battery current with the battery charged and everything off. You really need a multimeter. Harbor Freight sometimes has them free with a coupon, Amazon has them for $5.
 
Battery might be close to shot.... Especially given you don't have solar to keep it topped off.

Can get a 100w system for as little as $200 with a cheap controller.
 
Trebor English said:
Use a meter and measure the battery current with the battery charged and everything off. You really need a multimeter. Harbor Freight sometimes has them free with a coupon, Amazon has them for $5.


I have a multimeter but my knowledge of electricity is, unscrew the old bulb and screw in a new one.


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bardo said:
Battery might be close to shot.... Especially given you don't have solar to keep it topped off.

Can get a 100w system for as little as $200 with a cheap controller.


Battery is new. I'm looking at solar, but other than portable, wouldn't have a clue how to hook it all up!


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What is the model of meter? Do you still have the manual that came with it?  You need to set it to measure amps, disconnect one cable from the battery and reconnect going through the meter.  Start with the highest amp scale the meter has, 20 amps maybe.  Write everything down.

Do you have a spare light bulb for brakes or turn signal?  When you disconnect the battery before using the meter complete the circuit with the light bulb.  If something big is on it will light up brightly.  This will not not hurt the light bulb.  Your meter amps circuit might have a fuse that could get blown with too much current.

How much current is there with everything off?  Do you have an inverter?     Make sure it is off.  Go around to each light, pump, whatever.  Turn them on one at a time and write down the amps used.

Don't do this with anything that heats.  No microwave, induction cook top, hot plate, coffee maker.  All of those are forbidden until you get your charging situation fixed.
 
The issue is likely not being able to charge your battery completely. There are drains on the battery even though you are not running things. There are control panels and alarms running all the time. You may need to stop at a campground with electric to give it a really good charge.

You mentioned it is down to half. Are you finding this out via the control panel in the RV? If that is the case the battery is down much farther than half. The panel will read full as long as the battery has at least 12.0 volts which is half.

Getting stuff on the road can be a hassle. You either have to sit in one area long enough or look forward and find some way to receive it at a place you will be in the future. There are a variety of ways to receive goods from UPS, shipping services and general delivery at the local post office. I recently had a 12v fridge in Yuma and had it delivered in Cottonwood.

Depending on where you are you may be able to pick up a portable locally.
 
jimindenver said:
The issue is likely not being able to charge your battery completely. There are drains on the battery even though you are not running things. There are control panels and alarms running all the time. You may need to stop at a campground with electric to give it a really good charge.

You mentioned it is down to half. Are you finding this out via the control panel in the RV? If that is the case the battery is down much farther than half. The panel will read full as long as the battery has at least 12.0 volts which is half.

Getting stuff on the road can be a hassle. You either have to sit in one area long enough or look forward and find some way to receive it at a place you will be in the future. There are a variety of ways to receive goods from UPS, shipping services and general delivery at the local post office. I recently had a 12v fridge in Yuma and had it delivered in Cottonwood.

Depending on where you are you may be able to pick up a portable locally.


Thanks, Jim. I'll try that. I think you may be right about stuff running whine the scenes. I do know that before we left and everything was off, the battery stayed up just fine. I am probably expecting too much between charges.


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what type of battery bank? one 12v, two 12v, two 6v? how do you charge it? RV converter? do you have a generator? sounds to me like you need solar. highdesertranger
 
highdesertranger said:
what type of battery bank? one 12v, two 12v, two 6v? how do you charge it? RV converter? do you have a generator? sounds to me like you need solar. highdesertranger


You're right. 1 12v only charged by converter.


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It does not mater how new the battery. It maters what battery you have, how you charge that battery, and how you use that battery. So, what kind of battery do you have? Make model and size.
 
Is it a sealed battery or can you take the caps off?

If you can get the caps off, you need to get one of those battery hydrometers so you can REALLY know hat is going on.

If I'm not mistaken, this is the one Sternwake recommends:

[url=https://www.amazon.com/OTC-4619-Professional-Battery-Hydrometer/dp/B0050SFVHO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1491061955&sr=8-1&keywords=otc+4619]https://www.amazon.com/OTC-4619-Professional-Battery-Hydrometer/dp/B0050SFVHO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1491061955&sr=8-1&keywords=otc+4619[/url]
 
Optimistic Paranoid said:
Is it a sealed battery

Acid lead. I can take the caps off.



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It will be fairly important to get that 'new' battery fully charged, somehow, or it will continue to dissappoint, and only degrade further and further faster and faster.


Running the engine to charge it back up, well, the potential exists for high amps to bring the battery to 80% charged quickly, but even under ideal circuistances it would take at least 3.5 more hours for it to reach 100% from that 80%.

'Ideal' would mean the vehicle's voltage regulator( which controls alternator amperage  output) would be seeking and holding 14.5v, and thick wire would be ensuring most of that 14.5v was also reaching the distant house battery terminals.

This is Extremely unlikely.  More likely is undersized wire drops a lot of voltage, and only a brief period right after engine starting where the vehicle allows voltages over 14.

About 1/3 less amps will flow into a depleted battery at 13.6 compared to 14.7v.

So running the engine is likely doing very little, and this is not so easy to improve.

Also, your 1993 converter, is likely only a Magnatek single voltage converter.  What is its voltage?  13.6v.  Too low to recharge a depleted battery quickly, too high for a fully charged flooded battery to remain at for many days+ on end.  Such converters are only OK, when plugged into the grid and basically using it instead of the battery to power DC loads.

So when you plug into the grid, it will likely take about 32 hours to take the battery from 40% charged to 100% charged through your converter.  It is also likely that 13.6v can never actually truly fully charge the abused battery no matter how long it is left at 13.6v.

So what does this mean?  Your current battery is doomed.

Either you accept this and replace the battery more often, or you improve your charging sources.

100 watts of solar would do a lot for you, 200 would be better.  A converter upgrade to an Iota or a Progressive dynamics will greatly improve battery charging when plugged into the grid.

The voltage your vehicle allows is not easy to manipulate, but fatter copper between alternator and house battery can improve charging when running engine greatly, compared to what it left the factory with in 1993.  

When  newb notices a battery is not lasting as long as they had hoped, it usually means the battery is super depleted, like in the 15 to 20% range, and ideally the battery would never have been brought below 50% charged. 

And that would be for a true deep cycle battery.  12v batteries, well extremely few are actual deep cycle, despite the sticker on the case stating otherwise.  Marine/RV/dual purpose batteries  batteries are much closer to the internal construction of a starter battery than a true deep cycle battery and starter batteries quickly fail when deeply cycled, even if recharged promptly and properly, as their plates are thinner and more porous to provide more surface area for high cold cranking amperage to turn a starter motor.

But, until you improve your charging sources, it does not matter.  the best lead acid battery chronically undercharged will last only a smidge longer than the worst battery chronically undercharged.

It is when the battery is regularly fully charged that a good deep cycle or even a marine lead acid battery will easily outcycle/outlast/outperform a cheapo battery.

I bet if you pull off the cell caps carefully, and shine a light into the cells, you will see( with eye protection) the plates are covered with white/gray flakey sulfation.  A true full charge might dissolve some of it, but it is possible much will remain, and this sulfation occuldes the plates, preventing the chemical reaction from taking place. 

While you might be able to warranty the battery and start anew, the battery manufacturer nor the retailer are at fault.  And unless you improve your charging methods you will be in the same situation in the same amount of time.
 
Thanks SternWake! The converter was changed before I left to a progressive dynamics 4655. I am looking at solar, but as stated before, I know next to nothing about this stuff. Looking at Renogy 100W portable. Just trying to make sure before spending that kind of $$. Thanks again.


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The PD4655 is a good unit, even if 55 amps is a bit much for a single 12v battery. I'd only really be concerned with this if the battery is super hot when the RV is first plugged in. In such a situation, and if you have the 'remote pendant' you could force it to a lower voltage and less amperage will flow, keeping the battery cooler.

Super hot is 95F plus and 120F means stop charging.

100 watts will do much to keep a single 12v battery happy. especially with light electrical usage.

Keep in mind that most people who get solar, also eventually start using more electricity, and then want more solar.

Adding more solar later might be as much work again, and more expensive as just getting more than required now. Portable is great, if one can leave it out without worries, and faces it east to catch the mornign sun. Solar flat on the RV roof starts providing something at sunup, and will not easily grow legs and walk away, and provides something until late afternoon/ early evening.

If you are in need of a digital multimeter, I recommend getting a clamp on Ammeter, which is a full function digital multimeter, but it has a clamp one can put over a single wire and see how many amps are flowing through it. An Ammeter is likely the best learning tool there is, when one also knows the voltage. With the clampmeter you can see how many amps are actually flowing from the charging sources into the battery from Solar.alternator or PD4655, and how many amps are flowing out of the battery from your DC loads, such as laptop lights and such.

https://www.amazon.com/UNI-T-UT210E...?srs=6579490011&ie=UTF8&qid=1491069071&sr=8-1

Above is not a personal product recommendation, just an example. Make sure any unit chosen can do DC amperage. Cheaper than the above and they are AC only

With it you can figure out how charged the battery is, and how much you can use, and when recharging one can get an idea for how long it is going to take to complete the charge.

Basically the more charged the battery is, the less recharging amperage it can accept at a given voltage. Hopefully that voltage is in the mid 14's whenever less than 100% charged.

So your pd4655 will likely bring your 50% charged single 12v marine battery to 14.4v at 55 amps, in a few minutes, I'll guestimate 10 to 16 minutes. BUt 14.4v does not mean fully charged. When the amps flowing into your single 12v battery, at 14.5v, tapers to about 1 amp, then the battery is or nearly is, fully charged. The hydrometer at this point can say for sure.

But in the future the ammeter alone can be used to accurately estimate how charged the battery is when charging by how many amps it accepts at its current voltage.
 
This is why having a user set charge voltage is so important
 

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