Vagabound's Build-Out - 1993 Ford E350 Box Truck
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Progress Update:
Bed Bath and Beyond
I spent most of my time at RTR working on the truck. The front wall is now in place as well as the bed platform. Photos of that progress are forthcoming.
That means I can now stop taking the mattress in and out every day to work on the truck, and I can use the storage under the bed platform, which makes things a lot better. I was finally able to walk around without tripping over things inside the truck.
Finally.
Well, it was a lot better until I bought an RV door and a window from one of the large RV suppliers in the Quartzsite yesterday. Now the floor space is clogged up again. Newish door and window as a package for a much haggled $225. See photo.
The main reason for my post today is to ask for help.
The shower was supposed to be next, but I think I need to postpone it to work on the door and window. I know very little about installing a door or a window in a box truck or anything else for that matter. I think I have the general idea, but I need to do it right the first time. I seriously don't want to screw up and then be forced to take the big piece that I just cut out of the wall and stick it back in the wall and duct tape it there to cover the gaping wrong-sized hole, etc. You feel me, dog? ;-)
I should mention that I'm in a remote spot without good internet access, so even if I wanted to sacrifice bandwidth to watch YouTube videos about installing doors, I can't. I may not be able to remedy that before I'm forced to install it. So, if anybody wants to provide tips or a very basic step by step instruction, that would be great. What I mostly uncertain about is what I need to do between the door jamb and the wall itself. In other words, do I need to put some kind of rubber gasket in there or do I just screw it into the wall and come back later with some sort of foam or caulking or weather stripping. That part is a bit unclear. A solution that does not require difficult to obtain, custom parts is a solution that I'm going to pick.
Oh, and one more thing. I discovered yesterday that this door, especially the latch, is highly sensitive to whether the door jamb is square or not. So I need to know how to get it exactly square when I put it in the side of the truck. And what that really means is I need to know how to allow for adjustment of the door frame angle after I cut the hole in the truck.
As always, any help will be greatly appreciated.
Tom
Bed Bath and Beyond
I spent most of my time at RTR working on the truck. The front wall is now in place as well as the bed platform. Photos of that progress are forthcoming.
That means I can now stop taking the mattress in and out every day to work on the truck, and I can use the storage under the bed platform, which makes things a lot better. I was finally able to walk around without tripping over things inside the truck.
Finally.
Well, it was a lot better until I bought an RV door and a window from one of the large RV suppliers in the Quartzsite yesterday. Now the floor space is clogged up again. Newish door and window as a package for a much haggled $225. See photo.
The main reason for my post today is to ask for help.
The shower was supposed to be next, but I think I need to postpone it to work on the door and window. I know very little about installing a door or a window in a box truck or anything else for that matter. I think I have the general idea, but I need to do it right the first time. I seriously don't want to screw up and then be forced to take the big piece that I just cut out of the wall and stick it back in the wall and duct tape it there to cover the gaping wrong-sized hole, etc. You feel me, dog? ;-)
I should mention that I'm in a remote spot without good internet access, so even if I wanted to sacrifice bandwidth to watch YouTube videos about installing doors, I can't. I may not be able to remedy that before I'm forced to install it. So, if anybody wants to provide tips or a very basic step by step instruction, that would be great. What I mostly uncertain about is what I need to do between the door jamb and the wall itself. In other words, do I need to put some kind of rubber gasket in there or do I just screw it into the wall and come back later with some sort of foam or caulking or weather stripping. That part is a bit unclear. A solution that does not require difficult to obtain, custom parts is a solution that I'm going to pick.
Oh, and one more thing. I discovered yesterday that this door, especially the latch, is highly sensitive to whether the door jamb is square or not. So I need to know how to get it exactly square when I put it in the side of the truck. And what that really means is I need to know how to allow for adjustment of the door frame angle after I cut the hole in the truck.
As always, any help will be greatly appreciated.
Tom
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jimindenver
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I know nothing of adding a door or window but can say you are doing a very thought out, detailed build.
Tom,
A couple questions.
Looks like an aluminum door and it's pre-drilled. Yes?
How tall is the door? (Do not include the frame).
How much height do you have inside the Box where the door opening will be? (Below wherever the finished ceiling will end up).
A couple questions.
Looks like an aluminum door and it's pre-drilled. Yes?
How tall is the door? (Do not include the frame).
How much height do you have inside the Box where the door opening will be? (Below wherever the finished ceiling will end up).
It worked better for me using 2x3" framing around the inside of the door opening. That gave the wall more strength and also something to screw the new door frame into for hinge and latch support/
For doors and windows, the OEM's use Butyl Tape. It's like a putty and stays soft for years. I'd recommend 3/16" thick x 1" wide x 50' light gray or white. This is pushed onto the back of the frame all the way around the door. It's tacky enough to stay put until you have the door screwed into the opening. Also I'd recommend using SS screws not the aluminum ones that come with doors and windows. They tend to snap off even if you pre-drill the holes in the wall. Screw length should be at least 1" and a few 2" or longer to get into the 2x3" framing around the hinge and latch areas.
Should be able go get the Butyl tape and SS screws from any RV place or Lowes/Home Depot.
For doors and windows, the OEM's use Butyl Tape. It's like a putty and stays soft for years. I'd recommend 3/16" thick x 1" wide x 50' light gray or white. This is pushed onto the back of the frame all the way around the door. It's tacky enough to stay put until you have the door screwed into the opening. Also I'd recommend using SS screws not the aluminum ones that come with doors and windows. They tend to snap off even if you pre-drill the holes in the wall. Screw length should be at least 1" and a few 2" or longer to get into the 2x3" framing around the hinge and latch areas.
Should be able go get the Butyl tape and SS screws from any RV place or Lowes/Home Depot.
What Matlock wrote looks like good advice...I've never put one in. Assuming they are split-jambs (jamb comes apart and sandwiches wall when screwed together) you don't have to be perfect on the cut out. When you say is must be square, I figure that means only relative to itself, since you can't really make a door plumb and level in a vehicle. It looks pre-hung, so just keep the gap around door-to-frame even, maybe set some spacers in there if it likes to tweak around too easily during install.
Probably important to shim it properly like any other door, because without solid support your screws will deform the frame, causing headaches. Good luck!
Probably important to shim it properly like any other door, because without solid support your screws will deform the frame, causing headaches. Good luck!
masterplumber
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Matlock and Brad both had good advice. Also, cut the opening just slightly wider and taller than the minimum needed, but be very careful to not go to big. If you go to big you won't have anything to screw into. On houses we usually frame the rough opening 1/2" larger in each direction. On a box truck I would only go about 1/4" bigger. This will still allow you to adjust the door slightly so it's square.
Thanks to all for the replies and info.
Got the window partly installed yesterday. The wall is slightly thicker than the window frame as it turns out, so I'm trying to deal with that now. Not sure if I want to put spacers on the window frame behind the screws, or remove a little of the wall wood on the interior around the window frame to allow the second part of the window frame to screw on. Pondering that now. Suggestions welcome.
Gary:
The door frame is metal and it has screw holes on the exterior edge / flange / lip of the door frame. The window is not rubber pop-in. It's an aluminum frame as well, but it came apart into two pieces that somebody else called a sandwich. BradKW provided the right term -- split jamb.
Jim:
Thanks, especially nice coming from someone who's seen ithe truck up close.
Matlock:
Aluminum door, yes. The only thing that I can see that is pre-drilled is the outside edge of the door which will lay flat against the outside of the truck. See photos.
Regarding measurements, suffice it to say for the moment that I've measured the door and the truck and ithe door seems to be barely small enough to fit in my available space. There may still be some sort of MacGyver modification necessary. I'll share measurements when I get to that point, if I remember during the flurry of activity. What did you have in mind regarding measurements?
Also, thanks for the useful information about framing and butyl tape. I've never used that tape before.
Brad:
Split jamb - window, yes. Door, no.
Square - yes, frame and door relative to each other only.
Pre-hung: yes.
Shims: Thanks for the tip. Would not have occurred to me.
MP:
Thanks for the tip about the size of the opening. Can't say I'm sticking to that in every place simply because I chose to use a Sawzall at one point and those things are not very accurate, and probably worse in my hands.
What I'm more concerned about at this point is whether I need to retroactively ensure that there is wood all the way around the opening. In other words, do I need to go back and make sure that I insert an extra stud vertically up and down both sides of the door where there may not be a stud now? If I don't, and I'm screwing through the side of the door/window frame into the wall, I don't know what I would be screwing into at this point. As luck would have it, foam in some cases, which clearly will not do.
----------
I've learned a few lessons so far:
* The Sawzall, while a handy, awesome, devastating tool, is nearly impossible to use to cut a straight line. That is especially true when using longer blades and when cutting through anything thick like a wall. In this case, the blade of course wanted to flex and it was almost cutting a beveled angle so that the outside opening for the window would end up larger than the inside opening from which I was cutting. Luckily I caught it in time and corrected it.
* Related to the problem above, instead of using the Sawzall mostly, use a circular saw to cut every straight line possible, stopping before the corners. Use the Sawzall or a jigsaw with a really long blade to cut the corners, if rounded. Doing this one thing saved me a lot of time, made my life much easier, and resulted in a much better cut-out in the wall.
* When picking up parts like this door and window from the used market, don't expect everything to fit exactly right, and budget extra time and probably a little money for workarounds to make them fit.
Photos below.
Tom
----------
Cut out done and window partly installed
Ugly gap around the window, and the window inside the wall farther than I want it to be.
Side of door frame showing bolt / screw / rivet thingies, but no split jamb as far as I can tell. If those are bolts or screws, they don't seem to come off.
View near the top of the frame to give you a better idea what the frame itself looks like in profile.
View of latch side of the frame. Are those little pieces of plywood supposed to remain there as permanent parts?
Tom
Got the window partly installed yesterday. The wall is slightly thicker than the window frame as it turns out, so I'm trying to deal with that now. Not sure if I want to put spacers on the window frame behind the screws, or remove a little of the wall wood on the interior around the window frame to allow the second part of the window frame to screw on. Pondering that now. Suggestions welcome.
Gary:
The door frame is metal and it has screw holes on the exterior edge / flange / lip of the door frame. The window is not rubber pop-in. It's an aluminum frame as well, but it came apart into two pieces that somebody else called a sandwich. BradKW provided the right term -- split jamb.
Jim:
Thanks, especially nice coming from someone who's seen ithe truck up close.
Matlock:
Aluminum door, yes. The only thing that I can see that is pre-drilled is the outside edge of the door which will lay flat against the outside of the truck. See photos.
Regarding measurements, suffice it to say for the moment that I've measured the door and the truck and ithe door seems to be barely small enough to fit in my available space. There may still be some sort of MacGyver modification necessary. I'll share measurements when I get to that point, if I remember during the flurry of activity. What did you have in mind regarding measurements?
Also, thanks for the useful information about framing and butyl tape. I've never used that tape before.
Brad:
Split jamb - window, yes. Door, no.
Square - yes, frame and door relative to each other only.
Pre-hung: yes.
Shims: Thanks for the tip. Would not have occurred to me.
MP:
Thanks for the tip about the size of the opening. Can't say I'm sticking to that in every place simply because I chose to use a Sawzall at one point and those things are not very accurate, and probably worse in my hands.
What I'm more concerned about at this point is whether I need to retroactively ensure that there is wood all the way around the opening. In other words, do I need to go back and make sure that I insert an extra stud vertically up and down both sides of the door where there may not be a stud now? If I don't, and I'm screwing through the side of the door/window frame into the wall, I don't know what I would be screwing into at this point. As luck would have it, foam in some cases, which clearly will not do.
----------
I've learned a few lessons so far:
* The Sawzall, while a handy, awesome, devastating tool, is nearly impossible to use to cut a straight line. That is especially true when using longer blades and when cutting through anything thick like a wall. In this case, the blade of course wanted to flex and it was almost cutting a beveled angle so that the outside opening for the window would end up larger than the inside opening from which I was cutting. Luckily I caught it in time and corrected it.
* Related to the problem above, instead of using the Sawzall mostly, use a circular saw to cut every straight line possible, stopping before the corners. Use the Sawzall or a jigsaw with a really long blade to cut the corners, if rounded. Doing this one thing saved me a lot of time, made my life much easier, and resulted in a much better cut-out in the wall.
* When picking up parts like this door and window from the used market, don't expect everything to fit exactly right, and budget extra time and probably a little money for workarounds to make them fit.
Photos below.
Tom
----------
Cut out done and window partly installed
Ugly gap around the window, and the window inside the wall farther than I want it to be.
Side of door frame showing bolt / screw / rivet thingies, but no split jamb as far as I can tell. If those are bolts or screws, they don't seem to come off.
View near the top of the frame to give you a better idea what the frame itself looks like in profile.
View of latch side of the frame. Are those little pieces of plywood supposed to remain there as permanent parts?
Tom
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highdesertranger
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use wood as a spacer between the outer and inner walls as others have mentioned. attach the inner wall to the spacer. the screws for the door will attach the outer wall to the spacer. butyl tape is a must and the plastic trim must be used over the screws on the outside. hope this helps. highdesertranger
And ... Wallah! (clean-up and trim not included):
That's the view through the screen door. The main door is open and flat against the truck.
It went in there almost like somebody had measured it.
BradKW: "Looks pretty good for a sawzall hole".
No way that's a Sawzall hole. At least not one done by me. It only looks like that thanks to doing 90% of it with a circular saw.
Gary68: "cutting giant holes in the side of your rig,now thats ballsy."
I must admit to a pucker factor of about 9.6.
HDR: Thanks.
Tom
That's the view through the screen door. The main door is open and flat against the truck.
It went in there almost like somebody had measured it.
BradKW: "Looks pretty good for a sawzall hole".
No way that's a Sawzall hole. At least not one done by me. It only looks like that thanks to doing 90% of it with a circular saw.
Gary68: "cutting giant holes in the side of your rig,now thats ballsy."
I must admit to a pucker factor of about 9.6.
HDR: Thanks.
Tom
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LeeRevell
Well-known member
Been following this quietly for awhile. Looks good. Howsabouts a pic of the outside? Open and closed. Thanks.
jimindenver
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It looks great except that first step is a doozy! lol
