Umbrella Association/We Become Targets

[Kenwrite]

As I prepare to become nomadic next year, I have become worried.
Nomads are becoming more widely known.  And of course there has been reactions.  One in particular is that more and more municipalities are enacting "no sleeping in vehicles" ordinances.
Our society is become very "Us vs. Them".  "Them" is often any smaller, unorganized, different group, especially those with little or no collective power.  Like nomads.  There are precedents:  gypsies, the wandering unemployed of the 1930s, the post-Civil War freed slaves facing the KKK, etc.
I fear the time will come when we will need a larger collective voice, with some collective power however small.

I have no clue.  Am I seeing shadows?  I'd still feel better, safer, more confident if there was an organization or association to join that had our backs, that could speak for us, that could go to court for us.

ANY ideas or recommendations?

 

[John61CT]

I agree in principle, but am not worried, at least for now, in most places.

Anything that increases our visibility IMO increases the chances of crackdowns, especially if some fools think dwelling should be an organized "movement" that's a hopeless non-starter afaic.

We already have basic human rights on our side, last thing rational people want is to make the homeless problem worse.

Meantime try to fly under the radar, ideally go places where we aren't already being persecuted, try to be good citizens, police our own or at least clean up after each other.

 

[Moxadox]

Actually, Escapees RV Club heartily embraces full-timers. They have a ton of resources that are geared toward the full-time traveler. A lot for RVers, but also van dwellers, and they don't turn anybody away based on their mobile dwelling situation.

The Dire Wolfess

 

[Kenwrite]

Thanks, Moxadox.  I'll research Escapees.  Do they have any legal counseling services?
I struggled for an hour trying to find the right wording for my concerns.  That John61CT would think I was suggesting that 'some fools think dwelling should be an organized "movement"' shows I failed.
Perhaps something more of an anti-defamation league?

 

[QinReno]

Yeah, there have already been a couple of dozen threads on this in the past several months. There are 2 different issues here. Shadows and dust.

If your plan is to try and stealth camp in cities and towns, then you're probably gonna have a lot of trouble. Municipalities pass their own ordinances as they see fit, and you're stuck with it. I doubt that any sort of collective action is gonna matter. What are you going to do: organize all the homeless in the city and demand the city give everyone a free pass? Doubtful on that.

OTOH, camping on public lands is a totally different matter. A "few" of those areas have been closed off, especially near cities like Flagstaff, due to too many people making an enormous nuisance of themselves, but Bob Wells is constantly telling people to stop panicking. He gets the question all the time on his live telecasts.

If you're not totally put off by my comments, you can see some even more critical comments that I made here, post #23.
https://vanlivingforum.com/showthread.php?tid=32765

 

[John61CT]

That John61CT would think I was suggesting that 'some fools think dwelling should be an organized "movement"' shows I failed.

I did not mean you at all.

Has come up by others in the past.

Wealthy RVers are the main Escapees image, most do not think Walmart parking lots, downtown stealthing or BLM boondocking,

they generally have decent pension / savings, some RVs cost more than all the homes I've lived in put together, they pay their daily rent and

are therefore in the more "respected citizen" category.

So great to associate with for relevant issues like voting rights in domicile jurisdictions.

I doubt they would really go to bat in a political controversy for those of us dwellers just one rung above homeless, though I could be wrong.

 

[QinReno]

I doubt they would really go to bat in a political controversy for those of us dwellers just one rung above homeless, though I could be wrong.

Not a chance in hell. There are about 8-million RVs in the US, and "most" of those people have a lot more money than most people visiting this forum. They needed it to be able to afford their RVs. Then the vast majority of them do not boondock, they either stay in pay campgrounds or the retirees tend to stay in RV resorts in the winter.

I went to the fish fry in Bombay Beach on the Salton Sea in February. All of the other people there were from the 3 RV resort spas up on the hillside to the east. Probably $50-100/night minimum. They were friendly to me at first, assuming I was also from the spa, up until I pointed out my van parked over the way. Don't expect help from those guys.

 

[Dingfelder]

Reminds me of a Sam Kinnison routine, "It never ends...!"

 

[DLTooley]

I agree.

The situation in cities is not so dire as you might think. Rules against sleeping in vehicles are now the norm, there is some relaxing of these rules due homeless activism.

The politics of those groups can be a reason NOT to organize.

Perhaps the best thing you can do is to participate in an area where you regularly visit and like. Volunteering is a good way to do this.

 

[Weight]

It is over, purps. The only thing left to do? Stay 10 feet from any computerized monitor. Keep any cell phone 3 feet from ears. Use a 18 x 18 inch sheet of aluminum foil as a head covering. Run around in a relatively small circle shouting "Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh!
And do not park in front of my house.

 

[Dingfelder]

*murf

 

[John61CT]

Follow AreWeLostYet if you really want to wallow in gloom and doom about all sorts of related issues.

You attract to yourself the Reality that you focus on.

It may be difficult to **not** think of an elephant, the fear may still be there, but just do your best to keep your mind on more productive stuff.

Yes sometimes sh1t happens.

But let's wait until it actually does, and then deal with it.

Rather than bringing all the incidences together and live in fearful anxiety about things that will likely never come **our** way.

 

[AreWeLostYet]

As I prepare to become nomadic next year, I have become worried.
Nomads are becoming more widely known.  And of course there has been reactions.  One in particular is that more and more municipalities are enacting "no sleeping in vehicles" ordinances.
Our society is become very "Us vs. Them".  "Them" is often any smaller, unorganized, different group, especially those with little or no collective power.  Like nomads.  There are precedents:  gypsies, the wandering unemployed of the 1930s, the post-Civil War freed slaves facing the KKK, etc.
I fear the time will come when we will need a larger collective voice, with some collective power however small.

I have no clue.  Am I seeing shadows?  I'd still feel better, safer, more confident if there was an organization or association to join that had our backs, that could speak for us, that could go to court for us.

ANY ideas or recommendations?

Your concerns regarding a backlash against what is being referred to as "residential camping", "non-recreational camping" is warranted. Laws are indeed sweeping the country at light speed. Youtube has plenty of boondockers' accounts of being harassed by local authorities, vigilantes as well as federal authorities (often influenced by local interests).

And I am seeing Bob making reference to this trend in his talks. He softens this language by saying "there's so much land". But much of that land is so remote, inhospitable that you need a four-wheel vehicle capable of hauling a month's provisions (including water for all purposes) to live on. And modern patrolling technologies like drones will make remaining out of sight almost impossible.

 

[AreWeLostYet]

Follow AreWeLostYet if you really want to wallow in gloom and doom about all sorts of related issues.

You attract to yourself the Reality that you focus on.

It may be difficult to **not** think of an elephant, the fear may still be there, but just do your best to keep your mind on more productive stuff.

Yes sometimes sh1t happens.

But let's wait until it actually does, and then deal with it.

Rather than bringing all the incidences together and live in fearful anxiety about things that will likely never come **our** way.

[font=ProximaNovaCond-Extrabld,]Law of Attraction: Acting As If You Have What You Want When You Don’t[/font]

[font=ProximaNovaCond-Extrabld,]https://www.huffingtonpost.com/kell...nt-when-you-dont_b_7938140.html[/SIZE][/font]

You could also try LSD or medication to attain a state of total self-disillusionment. Never seen a lunatic without a wide grin on his face.

When sh1t does happen, I'd prefer to be there when it does. That requires being informed and ready to act based upon information, not a 'put on a happy face' attitude.

 

[QinReno]

Cool, since the last time I looked, I see we're up to the Sky is Falling threads #28, 29, 30, 31, 32, and 33, and #34 was removed by the moderators already. Yeah, sh1t happens. We definitely do need to watch out for the drones. One of my favorite movie segments ever ... "I thought you had'em linked".

 

[AreWeLostYet]

Cool, since the last time I looked, I see we're up to the Sky is Falling threads #28, 29, 30, 31, 32, and 33, and #34 was removed by the moderators already. Yeah, sh1t happens. We definitely do need to watch out for the drones. One of my favorite movie segments ever ... "I thought you had'em linked".

"Movies" haven't caught up with rapidly developing technology. It's no accident and they never will. I If you know how to search you'll find drones being developed, manufactured, purchased quietly by individuals, municipalities, corporations and governments everywhere. They're cheap, effective and eliminate a lot of expensive payrolls.

 

[QinReno]

Yeah, if you will recall that previous thread about drones "darkening the skies" in public lands is dead and buried. Amen.

 

[John61CT]

Movies is just a regular word, no scare quotes needed.

Maybe an alien or AI?

 

[Dingfelder]

Wow this thread got scrambled.

 

[Weight]

Yea. Guess who showed up.