Fair warning: this is probably going to be a bit lengthy.<br><br>The situation is this. I'm a 39 year old man with a wife, a five-year-old daughter, another kid coming in just a few weeks, and a couple of pets. I've been self-employed for most of my adult life as a club musician and a guitar instructor. I've always been very frugal and generally don't work more than is necessary in order to keep a roof over our heads and food on the table. Up until two months ago we lived in an ancient 70-foot mobile home that we owned in a trailer park, making lot rent our only housing expense. Life was cheap, and we'd built up a bit of savings totaling about $4000.<br><br>Fast forward to the present. We blew most of those savings moving about two hours from where we were at, into a regular apartment with regular apartment rent. Forget what brought us here, I'm not going to go into it. Suffice it to say that I never had an easy feeling about the whole thing, and now even my wife (who is a far more conventional thinker than I) acknowledges it to be an epic mistake. <br><br>As things sit, we have about $800 of savings left. I had to leave the band I was in and turn my students over to somebody else to come here, and while I have joined another band and landed a teaching gig at a local studio, neither is going to start paying for another month or two. I'm pulling down some temp work in a local factory for the interim, but with our radically increased living expenses that just leaves us treading water. It's also a lot less $$$/hour than I'm used to making, so I'm away from home much more in order to make ends meet. Both my wife and (especially) my little girl are very unhappy with this state of affairs, and I completely underestimated how difficult working on concrete was going to be on my already-damaged 39-year-old feet and knees. Add that to the exigencies of apartment living with people below us (my daughter's favorite activity is dancing), we're all quite miserable. <br><br>The upside is that my wife has discovered what I knew all along: she's every bit as much of a hippie as I am and doesn't want this life and it's costs any more than I do. So we're looking to get out, by any means possible. I suggested mobile living over a year ago, a notion which she rather vociferously shot down... this time she brought it up! So we're looking for either a cheap used travel-trailer RV or a cargo trailer I can convert.<br><br>The problem is $$$. We're down to $800, with no means to rapidly increase our savings. My only marketable skills are musical, and that's not something that instantly pays when you walk onto a new local scene. So I'm looking for any suggestions I can get for how to jump into this on the cheap. That's question number one.<br><br>Question number two involves keeping food on the table on the road. If it was just me I wouldn't worry, but with 1.8 kids to feed it's another matter. Whatever savings I have left will probably get swallowed up just getting us out on the road; what comes next leaves me more than a little concerned! Any suggestions in this department would be appreciated as well!<br><br>Thanks in advance for any ideas regarding the above. <br><br><br>
Trying to get out with limited $$$
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dragonflyinthesky
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Sorry, no helpful advice. Glad you found our tribe though. A new new baby is a good thing.<BR><SPAN style="COLOR: #ff00ff"><STRONG>Dragonfly</STRONG></SPAN>
peacetara
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Hi 2handband,<br><br>My suggestion is to move into something you can afford that doesn't leak. It doesn't really matter if it runs or doesn't run, it just matters if it leaks or not <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle">. After you move into it, then suddenly your expenses drop dramatically, since you don't have to pay the apartment rent and all the crazy things that come with apartment life (utilities, etc). Your daughter can dance outside, in parks, community centers, etc. Bothering no-one <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle"><br><br>After you have been out living in whatever cheap junker (that doesn't leak) for a while, you should be able to figure out what your next move is, because you will have lots of experience with this lifestyle. You have lots of options:<br> * Save money (chances are you already have a fair bit saved) and purchase something nicer, that maybe could go somewhere.<br> * Fix up what you have, to make it more livable<br> * Decide this life really isn't for you, and find a way to get back to something more traditional<br> * etc, etc, etc. The choices really are endless!<br><br>Anyways, this is my advice, for starting on a shoestring budget.<br><br>Regardless of your path, I wish you lots and lots of successes!<br><br>With Love,<br>Tara
She_websitetoolbox_import3114
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I agree with Tara...everything she said and i couldn't put it any better.
<br><br> I have to disagree and say that while a mobile lifestyle may be enticing, you have to put your growing family first. Without savings or a dependable income you are at the mercy of what happens on the road. A dependable RV or travel trailer capable of providing shelter to your family can not be had for $800, and to be honest it would be difficult to find one for many times that. Even if you could find one any small mechanical issue and you could be stuck on the side of the road, no money, no job and few good choices.<br><br> I'm not sure what state you are in, but another downside of a mobile lifestyle is the difficulty it causes for state assistance. I'm assuming you and your wife do not have health care coverage, and with a child on the way this will be paramount. Most states offer assistance for young children and expectant mothers. Whatever you do don't be to proud to accept it! Your 5 year old is also at the age where she is either starting school (or has already), stability is what she will need, not adventure. <br><br> Your musical talents are a blessing and they can allow you a flexible schedule as you can spend your nights and evenings teaching or performing. Do whatever it takes to find a full time day job even if it's not music related (Knock on doors if you have to!) Get back on your feet first and then start planning your family's future.
Do a thorough check on Craigslist first, using differing criteria, in order to winkle out the 'hidden' deals. Sometimes, depending on how persuasive you are, people will accept payments instead of a lump sum. Do you presently have a vehicle and, if so, what kind? ..Willy.
offroad
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Lonfu - you have a good plan. Would add to get your CERTIFIED NURSING ASSISTANT certificate in a short six month course, and use that to work with finding an elederly person or persons to care for. You can also do PET SITTING and do HOME SITTING on the cheap, as theose activities will keep you moving and being out in the community to find other work.<BR><BR>You can try looking for less costly places to live (south of the mson-dixon line) as heat does not cost as much. yes air conditioning costs, but not as much as heat does.
Thanks for all the replies! Reading through them I can see that I did not, in all cases, adequately describe the situation. Moreover, it has changed somewhat since I first posted. So here's a quick elaboration/update:<br><br>First off, the professional situation has improved. Moving closer to a major metro is was the best thing I could possibly have done in this regard, and I'm already gigging regularly and building a student load (where I was before it took me three years to do what I have done over the course of about three months here). I've been able to pack in the temp work, which is a godsend because:<br><br>The domestic situation has gone from bad to catastrophic. My formerly bouncy, happy five-year-old is constantly in tears and throwing epic tantrums. Part of it is that she's required to be so damn quiet all the time, but mostly it's because she's furious with me because <em>I'm not here. </em>Our expenses here are more than double what they were before, and that means I have to work a hell of a lot more than I've ever had to in the past. I'm gigging not only on weekends but on Tuesday nights as well, and I'm teaching three nights a week now instead of two. Maiya has had her daddy as an almost constant companion since she was an infant, and now I'm gone more often than not. I always swore I'd never get into a situation in which I spent more time with my colleagues than my kids, and damned if that's not right where I'm at. Maiya is hating every minute of it, and apparently her mood and temper are much, much worse when I'm gone (they're pretty bad when I'm here). This is exacerbated by:<br><br>My wife has suffered from a fairly severe depressive condition through much of her life, and medication has never been the slightest bit effective (and has had disastrous side effects to boot). In recent years she's managed to counter it with diet and exercise and other such and we haven't had a problem in three or four years, but since we came here it's suddenly back, and with a vengeance. This is partly due to the fact that she's hating the price we're having to pay for this new life (and blames herself), partly because Maiya is so miserable, and partly because her burdens are dramatically increased. She was hospitalized for her depression once, and when she was released she was advised by her doctors to avoid full-time employment because her brain apparently has a very nasty chemical reaction to stress. Well, being a young child's primary caregiver is like having three full-time jobs you can't quit (I know because I've done it), and now she's home alone with a small child who is miserable and making sure everybody knows it. Her stress level is through the roof, and we have another one coming.<br><br>So the above suggestion to get a full-time day gig on top of my other work, although well-intended, isn't even remotely an option. I'm gone too much as it is, and with no end in sight. Add a day job to what I'm doing and I would <em>never, ever see my kids. </em>Does anyone really see that as an acceptable option? Oh, wait, lots of people do. I really, really, hate this culture... <br><br>Anyway, it wouldn't work as a practical matter. My teaching schedule starts at 2:00 most days. Fridays are out; the band that gets paid well is the band that is willing to get in the van and drive. Friday mornings I'm frequently on the road before noon. Can't imagine many day jobs willing to accommodate that schedule.<br><br>The good news is that the rapid ramping up of my work has me making more money than we need to get by, so we are saving some up. My timeframe for making a move is end of summer... if this explosive domestic situation holds that long. <br><br>
<br><br>I've looked at a couple of nice ones for around $1500. As long as it's not moldy I'm not worried about much else; I can fix most other problems. I'd prefer a trailer, but will consider a motor home if the engine/tranny is tight.<br><br> ZOFCHAK said:
<br><br>We're in MN, and we do use state medical coverage. For now anyway; I'm perilously close to the income cutoff, which is lower than you probably think. So long as everyone is healthy (we are) I'm not going to let this be a showstopper; I'm not going to submit to wage slavery over health insurance. That's what it's gonna come to, eventually; health care is one issue i see no non-catastrophic solution to. The entrenched interests that benefit from the present paradigm are simply too powerful. <br><br>As for school, we are very fortunate to be residents of a state that takes a very lassie faire attitude towards home-schooling. It took me over a decade to recover from the ways in which public school messed me up; most people, as near as i can tell, never do. I'm not subjecting my kids to it.<br><br>
<br><br>We are on are feet, and without the day gig. We can't save as fast as we would like, but my presence at home is far more important than $$$.<br><br>
<br><br>I am indeed self-taught. I took a degree in music back in 2002, but I was composition major. Didn't take any guitar lessons as part of the coursework. I'm not worried about repairs; I'm actually quite good at that sort of thing. I have a lot skills but no useful degrees; I double-majored in music and anthropology because that's what i wanted to learn and never stopped to think about the job prospects. Just as well in retrospect; I've never held a day job that didn't make me want to booby-trap my head and blow it off! <img rel="lightbox" src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" class="bbc_img"><br><br>And yes, I realize that being a vandweller doesn't make you a hippie. But I am one; always have been. I like simple, low-cost living, large blocks of unstructured free time, and I'm a radical environmentalist who is trying very hard to put my lifestyle where my mouth is at.<br><br>Which is the bottom line, really. Our present lifestyle is too expensive, too time-intensive, and too damn consumptive. Something has to give, and soon.
offroad
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If your wife can not work, you need to get her declared as disabled, and get social security for her, and towards your family expenses. of course this will take two years, and lots of doctor visits, and lots of lawyering. Most people give up, but some ones stick it out and eventually get it. The trick is to have her work, and then get canned because she can not handle the job. If employers say she is not doing the work, then you have the evidence right there. <BR><BR> Your might as well start the process. if it takes five years, then you have not lost anything. <BR><BR>Maybe your wife can team up with someone at a family day care and take care of your child at the same time as others. We did this for a few years. <BR><BR>
OregonEllen
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I have a problem with stress causing a bad flare of disease, too, but I had to raise four kids without benefit of child support. Uneducated, I couldn't earn much money. Stress caught up with me after the first bunch of kids were raised and my inflammatory disease flared, but then we got two baby grandkids to raise (husband and I because I remarried) and after the girls were 5 and 7 my late husband died, leaving me to do the single parent thing again with very little money. Your daughter may have to just suck it up and grow up a little instead of making the rest of the family miserable. What I've found in raising six kids in dire straits is that you can reason with them---even as young as two, a child can understand what you're talking about if you give it some thought and couch things in terms they can understand at whatever age. Your daughter is old enough to understand that the way the world is today, having parents with large amounts of "down" time to spend with them just isn't possible. Two parents working doesn't even support families anymore. Talk to her and she'll maybe pout and have tantrums over it, it sounds like, but approach it from this angle----you're a unit. Every family member has to make some sacrifices and instead of thinking only of what they want, they instead need to put out every effort to be civil and loving and helpful to the other members of the family. She can learn to be a grateful, helping part of the family if you teach her that way. You're the parent and whatever tone you set is what she's going to think is the right thing for her to do and the right way to comport herself. You don't have to coddle a child----it's not even fair to the child----so teaching her to be a helpful part of a family unit can really be fun for her and she'll actually get into how being a big girl and helping makes her very important. She won't be feeling less important to you as she may be feeling now because you're gone a lot more. You can appoint her as Daddy's helper for when you're gone, giving her the duties of helping with the baby and helping her mom or whatever things she really can do. Then praise her lavishly when you do get to spend time with her. <br><br>
<br><br>Sorry, gotta respectfully call bullshit on this statement. We've managed very well on a single, small income up until we moved into this stupid apartment. Lots of money and no free time are only the reality if you're locked into conventional modes of living. <br><br>That said, the situation has settled quite a bit since I last posted. Maiya is coping much better with the present set of circumstances, and my wife is doing better as well. The birth of our daughter Naomi during the first week of April had a calming effect on everybody... but things were getting better before then, anyway. Maiya adores the HELL out of her baby sister, BTW. This baby has overnight supplanted me as the most important person in her life, and somehow I don't mind that.<br><br>Anyway, plans to get out proceed apace. Inspired by a story I read about a family living in a VW van with a young daughter, I'm becoming increasingly convinced that this is utterly doable with a family. I'm making great money; this move may have been a personal disaster but professionally it's been fantastic. I'm gigging more (and getting paid more) than i have since I got into this 15 years ago, and carrying as many students as i reasonably can. I'm quietly switching over to online lessons via Skype so I'm not tied down to a specific location and can still make money so long as I can get internet access.<br><br>We haven't got a long-term living solution worked out yet, but it's getting there. We were given a '93 Ford Econoline just last week (yes, I said given, as in free), and we're seriously considering getting out of the apartment and camping in the van for the summer; all the faster we can save $$$. Don't know if it's gonna happen, but it's a thought. I'm looking at tow-behinds to run behind the van, but will consider a self-propelled for the right $$$. I was just looking the other day at a 1940 greyhound bus with a Detroit Diesel that someone has already converted to a camper, but it needs a lot of work and the guy wants $2400.
creationode
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Be aware that the State will want to steal your children if they find out you are 'residing' in a vehicle.<br><br>
I'm afraid I have to second what Creationode said. For a brief time I lived in an RV with my children and I came back to the trailer one day to find a business card of a Childrens Protective Services worker placed into the door. If ever you are in that situation, DO NOT assume that because you are a good parent that they will not take your children....RUN! Even living in a 'homeschool friendly' state, you are a target because you are not cooperating with what the government thinks you should do with your children. Let me assure you that many government employees and lots of judges don't like homeschoolers. <br><br>I personally think that you are correct and that your child is better off having more time with her parents, but most people do not share these views and many of them will feel that they are doing the right thing to impose their values upon you and your family. People will report you. Sad but true.<br><br>Hope things work out for the best for you and your family!
Yes, I am giving the above some thought. My current most likely scenario is to temporarily go the "respectable" route; get a conventional RV trailer and put it in a park. It'll be completely legal, much cheaper than what we're currently doing, and give me some time to plan the next move. I can probably also get away with just pulling up the stakes, taking off for a few months at a time, and saying we're "on vacation".<br><br>Bolder options will probably be available once this phony economic "recovery" has run it's course and it becomes apparent that the emperor has no clothes. I reckon another 18 months, tops. At that point lots of folks will probably be just plain homeless; nobody is likely to hassle me too hard for living in a vehicle.
