Today I'm kicking the hornet's nest :)

[ilovemyvan]

Ok, first lets all agree to be nice to one an other. All posts, if any, must be kind because, after all, we all like each other here right! :heart:

I've been wanting to point something out for a while now but didn't want to kick the hornet's nest or get my head chewed up. However, I can't help it I need to air it out, so here I go: I don't understand why so many full time van dwellers feel the need to be so condescending towards house dwellers.

I copied the following from an other thread:

"They're doing the normal thing, the familiar thing, so it must be the best choice, the safe choice."

Comments like this 'assume' that being in a house is not the best thing for the house dweller at this time. Personally I would literally go even more nuts if I was living in a van full time. Because of mental issues I have to live in a house and spend most of my time away from people. The combination of nature and van living would not work for me one little bit. (BTW, mental illness is as physical as a missing arm. No amount of will power can change how the chemicals in your brain work any more than it could grow an arm). So I have to give priority to my quality of live. I must live in a house, in the county among nature and wildlife. So even if I try not to be a bit offended when I read comments like the above, it always stings a little. I'll admit it I have very thin skin :angel:

We've seen a lot of Canada and the US and in the end we CHOOSE to live exactly where we are living now. It's close to the ocean and the drop zone but still far enough from people. We gave a lot of thought to the efficiency of the build and I'm positive that it's cheaper for us to live here than it would be if we were to van dwell. I can back up this claim with facts if you are interested.

I'm sure no one mean to be armful with these kind of comments..............Wow! I just realize I was going to ask you to be PC. Oops I really don't think I have the right to do that. So instead I will simply say, be aware that some of us are in a S&B because we choose to be.

Ah....I fell much better now that I ranted some. Congratulation if you read all the way to the end. A gold star is awaiting you

Nicole

 

[GotSmart]

People with thin skin should not kick a hornets nest, unless you can run faster than a hornet can fly.      

People with tin skin can get away with it.  

After spending many years studying communication, I have learned that sometimes you can be understood, and other times you are unable to say the right thing to save your life!.

Then there is the current crop of presidential candidates.   :huh:

People have a hard time not making generalities.  Nothing fits everyone, and nobody always does IT.  

Agree to disagree, and watch where you are walking.  There just might be a real hornet's nest by the pathway.   (Been there!)  :blush:

 

[Coffee Tim]

Ok, first lets all agree to be nice to one an other. All posts, if any, must be kind because, after all, we all like each other here right! :heart:

I've been wanting to point something out for a while now but didn't want to kick the hornet's nest or get my head chewed up. However, I can't help it I need to air it out, so here I go: I don't understand why so many full time van dwellers feel the need to be so condescending towards house dwellers.

I copied the following from an other thread:

"They're doing the normal thing, the familiar thing, so it must be the best choice, the safe choice."

Comments like this 'assume' that being in a house is not the best thing for the house dweller at this time. Personally I would literally go even more nuts if I was living in a van full time. Because of mental issues I have to live in a house and spend most of my time away from people. The combination of nature and van living would not work for me one little bit. (BTW, mental illness is as physical as a missing arm. No amount of will power can change how the chemicals in your brain work any more than it could grow an arm). So I have to give priority to my quality of live. I must live in a house, in the county among nature and wildlife. So even if I try not to be a bit offended when I read comments like the above, it always stings a little. I'll admit it I have very thin skin :angel:  

We've seen a lot of Canada and the US and in the end we CHOOSE to live exactly where we are living now. It's close to the ocean and the drop zone but still far enough from people. We gave a lot of thought to the efficiency of the build and I'm positive that it's cheaper for us to live here than it would be if we were to van dwell. I can back up this claim with facts if you are interested.

I'm sure no one mean to be armful with these kind of comments..............Wow! I just realize I was going to ask you to be PC.    Oops I really don't think I have the right to do that. So instead I will simply say, be aware that some of us are in a S&B because we choose to be.

Ah....I fell much better now that I ranted some. Congratulation if you read all the way to the end. A gold star is awaiting you  

Nicole


 

Ok young lady...you owe me a gold star  

A good rant does the soul good.   
I've found that most people just speak the way they were taught or are accustomed to speaking without having any malice at heart.  Just their normal conversation pattern.  I've also found that age plays a major part of how people interpret what they hear.  Things that are funny to an older generation have taken on a new meaning to a younger generation because of the changes in language that have come about and a younger generation may be offended when they hear things that an older person says. An older person says a word or phrase but the younger person hears something else.  Even when both people speak the same language it is sometimes hard to be sure that both are on the same page when communicating.  This is not to say that some people don't say things of harmful intent but just to point out that we don't always hear what we think we hear.  
How and where we live is something that each of us determines for ourselves and as long as we are happy with it, so be it.  It's our choice and we have to please ourselves.

 

[ilovemyvan]

People with thin skin should not kick a hornets nest, unless you can run faster than a hornet can fly.      

People with tin skin can get away with it.  

Thin skin and big mouth....BBBBBAAAADDDDD combination

Nicole

 

[Richard]

Ok young lady...you owe me a gold star  

A good rant does the soul good.   
I've found that most people just speak the way they were taught or are accustomed to speaking without having any malice at heart.  Just their normal conversation pattern.  I've also found that age plays a major part of how people interpret what they hear.  Things that are funny to an older generation have taken on a new meaning to a younger generation because of the changes in language that have come about and a younger generation may be offended when they hear things that an older person says. An older person says a word or phrase but the younger person hears something else.  Even when both people speak the same language it is sometimes hard to be sure that both are on the same page when communicating.  This is not to say that some people don't say things of harmful intent but just to point out that we don't always hear what we think we hear.  
How and where we live is something that each of us determines for ourselves and as long as we are happy with it, so be it.  It's our choice and we have to please ourselves.

I tend to agree with you overall, Tim. For me, the biggest challenge is in the idea that 'normal conversation pattern' is something of an entitlement, or 'just the way I am' (as if the person who 'is' a certain way cannot be any other way). My feeling on this point is that they choose to be how they are. More specifically, that their choice is an ongoing one. I wonder if I can 'unpack' this in a way that won't ruffle any feathers...

Conversation face-to-face is pretty easy when it comes to clear conveyance. If you say something and I don't know how to take it, I ask. And, if you don't take offense to my asking for clarification, then you clarify. It's that feedback loop -- a willingness to ask when unsure, and the willingness to clarify when asked -- that makes communication so frickin' easy. In theory, of course

In practice, something seems quite often to interfere with this simple feedback loop. I think about this a lot (maybe because I'm accustomed often to being misunderstood, and despite my best efforts, to having my clarification ignored/disregarded). Granted, it can be dangerous to paint too broadly, but in my experience, it seems that the 'sense of entitlement' hypothesis fits far more than I wish it did. Put another way, that ego seems dominant in the way that we might remember from puberty

Now, to be clear, I'm new here and my experience with reading through many threads is that folks seem, overall, to be both conscientious and mature in their communication. I mean that both for what gets written, and also in the way that what gets written is generally received. Frankly, I find that refreshing and encouraging. To be even more clear & direct: if anyone's inclined to think I'm 'talking sideways' about anyone else here, I assure you I'm doing nothing of the sort.

I'm sure not perfect at communication, but I do think it's fair to say that I'm a conscientious communicator. If at first you don't succeed, try, try again... right?

I guess I want to jump in here to explore a little bit (and, you know, maybe I'm also risking a kick to a nearby hornet's nest), this idea of 'ego' feeling some sense of entitlement/privilege/superiority to say whatever it wants, and if other people don't like it, well, too bad for them.

Where do we/you/I draw the line between making a conscientious effort to be understood, and just saying whatever, and saying it however, our default 'pattern of communication' dictates? And, when other people misunderstand us/you/me, how much effort is made to clarify (even if not specifically asked) before shifting the burden onto the other person, as if it's their problem that they misunderstand/misunderstood what we meant?

I know that my reply is to your comment, but the questions are for all of us to kick around. If we dare

 

[Queen]

I touched on something similar here: https://vanlivingforum.com/Thread-Judgements Wondering why we can't just be supportive and understand that our personal truth isn't universal.

I'm sure the view from the road with the S&B just a memory is a very different one than many of us soon-to-be's and wannabes and might-someday-be's. It seems like a beautiful way to live, but some of us have issues or partners or commitments that don't let us roam as much we'd like. It's really all good, just different folks in different places in life.

Hope to meet you all as my roaming days become more plentiful.

 

[BradKW]

People with thin skin should not kick a hornets nest, unless you can run faster than a hornet can fly...   

I think I will make that my new signature when I get home...

 

[SoulRaven]

For some people, denigrating others' lifestyles and choices is how they experience validation of their own.

It's sad.

 

[Coffee Tim]

I tend to agree with you overall, Tim. For me, the biggest challenge is in the idea that 'normal conversation pattern' is something of an entitlement, or 'just the way I am' (as if the person who 'is' a certain way cannot be any other way). My feeling on this point is that they choose to be how they are. More specifically, that their choice is an ongoing one. I wonder if I can 'unpack' this in a way that won't ruffle any feathers...

Conversation face-to-face is pretty easy when it comes to clear conveyance. If you say something and I don't know how to take it, I ask. And, if you don't take offense to my asking for clarification, then you clarify. It's that feedback loop -- a willingness to ask when unsure, and the willingness to clarify when asked -- that makes communication so frickin' easy. In theory, of course

In practice, something seems quite often to interfere with this simple feedback loop. I think about this a lot (maybe because I'm accustomed often to being misunderstood, and despite my best efforts, to having my clarification ignored/disregarded). Granted, it can be dangerous to paint too broadly, but in my experience, it seems that the 'sense of entitlement' hypothesis fits far more than I wish it did. Put another way, that ego seems dominant in the way that we might remember from puberty

Now, to be clear, I'm new here and my experience with reading through many threads is that folks seem, overall, to be both conscientious and mature in their communication. I mean that both for what gets written, and also in the way that what gets written is generally received. Frankly, I find that refreshing and encouraging. To be even more clear & direct: if anyone's inclined to think I'm 'talking sideways' about anyone else here, I assure you I'm doing nothing of the sort.

I'm sure not perfect at communication, but I do think it's fair to say that I'm a conscientious communicator. If at first you don't succeed, try, try again... right?

I guess I want to jump in here to explore a little bit (and, you know, maybe I'm also risking a kick to a nearby hornet's nest), this idea of 'ego' feeling some sense of entitlement/privilege/superiority to say whatever it wants, and if other people don't like it, well, too bad for them.

Where do we/you/I draw the line between making a conscientious effort to be understood, and just saying whatever, and saying it however, our default 'pattern of communication' dictates? And, when other people misunderstand us/you/me, how much effort is made to clarify (even if not specifically asked) before shifting the burden onto the other person, as if it's their problem that they misunderstand/misunderstood what we meant?

I know that my reply is to your comment, but the questions are for all of us to kick around. If we dare

Richard...I'm aware that some people have a built in super sense of entitlement in both language and actions and I tend to think that child-rearing has much to do with it.  We are products of our environment. 
You asked how we draw the line.  I can't answer for you but as for me I simply walk away from, and avoid,  any environment that I consider unhealthy.

 

[Canine]

What's the point in speaking if you can't say what's on your mind.I usually say what I think and expect other people to do likewise.Otherwise,we are all living a big lie.

 

[ilovemyvan]

You asked how we draw the line.  I can't answer for you but as for me I simply walk away from, and avoid,  any environment that I consider unhealthy.

I don't think this forum is unhealthy at all. I don't want to simply walk away. The goodwill and kindness here are quite special. I only wanted to point out a little flaw. B&S dwellers are not brain washed, that's all.

Cheers, I wish there was an emoji raising a martini glass.

Nicole

 

[vagari]

Life is about making choices and living with the consequences, good or bad. Hopefully we make more good choices than bad, but bad choices are how we learn from our mistakes. As long as my choices don't adversely affect anybody else then they shouldn't care how I choose to live. I certainly don't care how anyone else lives as long as it doesn't adversely affect me, myself and I.

I am free to live how I want and say what I want, but so is everyone else.

 

[ilovemyvan]

I think I will make that my new signature when I get home...

People with thin skin should not kick a hornets nest, unless you can run faster than a hornet can fly...

I know what you mean BradKW, GotSmart has more wisdom in a one liner than most of us can fit in a long winded thread. I should have asked him to write was I wanted to say

Nicole

 

[GotSmart]

What's the point in speaking if you can't say what's on your mind.I usually say what I think and expect other people to do likewise.Otherwise,we are all living a big lie.

There are times when you have to carefully word your reply.  

There are members here with learning and social problems that take extreme offence to harshly worded posts. 

Sometimes a simple, "I do not see it that way." is enough rather than saying, "That is complete bullshit!" 

It also keeps Cindy from whacking you with the "bad poster " stick.  

 

[Queen]

What's the point in speaking if you can't say what's on your mind.I usually say what I think and expect other people to do likewise.Otherwise,we are all living a big lie.

No reason not to say what's on your mind, but that is a far cry from presenting your thoughts and experiences as universal. Saying "I do _______ so everyone else should do it too or they are wrong" is where conversation becomes lecture, and I don't think many of like to be lectured at.

 

[WheelEstate USA]

As to living in S&B...I have always said the mobile (especially van) life is not everyone's cup of tea. But...I do feel like this site has elements that are attractive to many types. Whether you live in a house or some form of rolling stock there is no reason to feel thin skinned around here.

 

[ilovemyvan]

Ok young lady...you owe me a gold star  

Coming right up.....Promise!

 

[Canine]

I think I have the best of both worlds.A camper to hit the road in and a house to go to when I want.That doesn't mean everyone else should do likewise.

 

[GotSmart]

People with thin skin should not kick a hornets nest, unless you can run faster than a hornet can fly...

I know what you mean BradKW, GotSmart has more wisdom in a one liner than most of us can fit in a long winded thread. I should have asked him to write was I wanted to say  

Nicole

Hold on there!  

I refuse to be put in the position of stating I know what a woman wants to say!   :s

I have three grown daughters, and am an expert at getting in trouble speaking at home.  I try not to do that in public!   :blush:

 

[speedhighway46]

I have only a few guideposts that help steer me in my life, as normally I don't like to make issues and decisions overly complex. They are:

1) Live life by the Golden Rule

2) Live and let live

3) It's better to be thought stupid than open your mouth and prove it

4) If you are doing more talking than listening, you've got it backwards

5) when you get the masses, you get the asses

That's it, I think . . .