To minivan, or NOT to minivan, that is the question.

[Minivanmotoman]

Someone asked me about my minivan and why, suggesting that the info might be useful to others. Here it is.

For me, a minivan was finding the sweet spot in price, space, reliability, mpg, utility and lifestyle fit.
IMHO. Is it for you? Here are main points that I considered.

Generally
Minivan pros - v6 with some towing capacity. Can always get a light camper/trailer to tow behind if you want more space which is the cheapest way to get more overall space. Or lhaul a landscaping trailer if you need to go to work ( dirty four letter word) lol.
Fuel economy much better than anything bigger, van or SUV. Mid 20s mpg with a light foot. Better your mpg, longer and farther you can travel on your budget.
Good stealth factor. 
Price usually best bang for the buck compared to SUV, cars. Not popular anymore thus DONT retain their value as well. Bargain? SCORE!?
Size is big enough inside, yet small enough outside. Easy to park and maneuver.

IMHO, best overall vehicle type with the best cost efficiency ratio. But of course it is a compromise and maybe not for you. If you look at want vs need, that's another philosophical discussion. Or if you want to spend more, lots of options out there that you can justify. It is ideal for those looking for bigger than a car, minimal lifestyle, good mpg, want to go far with the most space at the least cost. That's where it works.

Cons, this is the big one for most- can't live in it,  more space than a car but not enough compared to full size vans, trailers, RVs. This I think is the only one to consider since it is it's main limiting factor. Many want all the amenities of home. It is doable on a micro scale like the Westys. But tight fit for two, OK for one.

 It is ideal for living out of and why I call it my mobile base camp. The rock climbers, hikers, 20 something's are all running around with cars modified to haul the basics, camping gear, bed in the back. Minimalism, compact, just get in and go. And if you are living in the Southwest where it is general dry and comfortable, it works. Elsewhere, not so much. 

But I found ways to double and triple my living and storage space for less than $300 and improve upon the limitations. If interest is shown, can discuss this and what i choose and why in another post. Think efficiency and cost effective. Or bargain. If you only knew how little I have invested total in my rig, the places I have gone, and the things that I have seen...

 

[Minivanmotoman]

The comparable would be the Westys and Vanagons if you are into the VW thing. Very popular due to its optimal benefits as I said above. Optimal space for its size. Those efficient Germans.
My research showed that while the romantic hippie to the surf beach and Woodstock lifestyle was it's charm and appeal, the reality was that reliability, power, repair costs, rust would quickly deflate your wallet and bank account. I knew that a domestic would be more reliable, better power with towing, and be cheaper. The Asian minivans are great but 2x+ the cost.
Now you may say that the reliability of any domestic is crap. Mostly true, but there was one that had average reliability and I've owned two previously so knew that to be true. GM minivans. I could go on of you cared to know...

 

[RVTravel]

Please share.

"But I found ways to double and triple my living and storage space for less than $300 and improve upon the limitations. If interest is shown, can discuss this and what i choose and why in another post. Think efficiency and cost effective. Or bargain. If you only knew how little I have invested total in my rig, the places I have gone, and the things that I have seen..."

 

[mr_elijah_gardner]

I think the astrovans are cool. If I was looking to do a smaller van I'd be looking for those. The door setups and shape look like they would provide the most function and space. Kinda like a domestic VW experience.

 

[Trebor English]

Long ago I had a 1985 Dodge conversion van.  There was a lot of bolted in furniture and space use never did get made efficient.  Now I have a Windstar with the back seats popped out.  The space is used much more efficiently.  

Occasionally I "find" something that I forgot that I had that was buried under other stuff.  In a full size van there would be more of that.  In a Mazda 5 small mini van that wouldn't happen.  I think the Windstar minivan size is the right size for me.  It hits the sweet spot where I have enough space but it is small enough to force the  removal of clutter.

 

[Minivanmotoman]

Yes, Astrovans,great vehicle except in the mpg Dept. As a friend of mine says, they suck back the gas like a thirsty drunk on a hot day. Lol.

 

[frater secessus]

I think minivans are a great option. As you point out, the cost of used ones is often low enough that folks can get into one to see if they like the life.

My mother inherited a minivan in my grandmother's will. She asked if anyone wanted it (I did!) but it went elsewhere. If it had come to me I would have used it as a testbed at least. It definitely would have delayed my purchase of a cargo van.

 

[John61CT]

But I found ways to double and triple my living and storage space for less than $300 and improve upon the limitations. If interest is shown, can discuss this and what i choose and why in another post.

Such a tease!

Yes of course, fill us in. . .

 

[John61CT]

Great deals can be had on Toyota and Honda, just harder to find. But you just can't compare their value across to the Mopars, they tend to hold their value better for good reasons.

You are buying **much** better reliabilty, hence lower running costs, it's worth keeping them in good repair for many more miles.

 

[breeze]

Minivans are where the consumer dollar is invested, at one time anyway, and they have the best space utilization next to a van or larger vehicle. I'd be suspicious of front wheel or all wheel drives, but around town, they would be great. I rode in a 94 Dakota club cab pickup truck for 18 years and 2 driver seats: it was not exactly a picnic, but it was not that bad. A minivan may not be my first choice, but it may be the best for someone around town and a very good alternative otherwise. The worst thing about minivans is motorcyclists riding behind you: the wind smacks up and down due to the short squatty aerodynamics :-(

SUV's are not much better, but the minivans are absolutely the worst thing to follow while riding on a motorcycle; and they used to be all over the road in every lane!

 

[Minivanmotoman]

OK, doubling and tripling storage and living space.
And without an extra couple tons of steel, aluminium, glass, wood and plastic. Hmmmmmm, what do I really need and most efficient, and cost effective way to get it?

The quick and fast answer for the ADD?
Build a 48 cu.ft plywood box and bolt it to the roof. Perfect for occasional use items, seasonal, camping gear, dirty laundry, tools, spare parts, etc... Can be used for deck, solar panel mount, roof tent, etc... Had it cut at home depot for free and only required a drill, glue and screws to assemble. Paint or roof coat and voilà!
Storage space doubled for less than $100. Hundreds of dollars( Can add up to almost $1000)for Thule/Yakima racks and boxes. That's crazy. If it adds up to a significant percent of the vehicle value, got to be a cheaper way, not worth it. If your roof system is equal to 25% or more the cost of your vehicle, ?????

Tripling living space? $200 left. Not rocket science here either. Yes, tons of rigid, steel space is great. Necessary? Depends. For me, cold isn't in the cards if I have the choice so don't need rigid or permanent tons of steel and insulation. Large 10*14 tent (and there are bigger) and a 10*12 screen room when desired. Living space tripled for $200. Setup camp long term, good. On the go, leave it packed in storage for quick get up and go. See pic link in my intro forum post. Tarp attached to my roof, covers my screen tent, use as kitchen and living room, rain and bug free!

Inflatable pull out sofa bed and briefcase picnic table ($100), I have a kitchen, living room and bedroom that weighs less than 100 lbs, easily stores into my roof storage. Wouldn't resist tropical storm Irma, but then, I don't want to be there either. Perfect for summer and the Southwest. No not cold winter months, so what's the solution for that? Well, I find a solution for that as well that didn't involve hauling tons of steel... Life is all about rising to the challenge, efficiently and cost effectively.
But then again, to each his own.

 

[John61CT]

OK, carried to an extreme

 

[Minivanmotoman]

So the minivan was right for low cost, max big space yet small size, easy to drive and park, cheap to buy and run, fit my on the go lifestyle and wanting to be outside not live in a van, and oh, the major personal reason for me.
It was the smallest yet still capable enough (power/space/mpg) vehicle that I could haul a full size motorcycle on. That was the clincher for me.

And why did I chose a GM minivan?
It's all about the money and research. You may not care so skip this post.

I'm a car guy since a kid. Played and puttered in this subject since, always. Had a couple muscle cars, sports cars, sold cars, read everything on it. Constantly scanned auto trader, classifieds, Craigslist, Consumer Reports. I like this stuff, know alot.
So when it came time to make the jump, here is the process I went through. I like to think things out before making any major decision. Once a van was decided upon, next step, which one? Being a long time consumer reports subscriber, knew that Toyota was the way to go. No one else is close. Honda is good but serious tranny problems in the early 2000s.... And they really hold onto their value, ridiculously so. Not worth it unless buying new in many cases. Was there a more cost effective choice with a still reasonable reliability possibility. Turns out there was or is. Consumer reports gave the GM minivans average reliability rating, which for a domestic vehicle, is pretty good. I had owned two previously and found them decent. My first 1996 needed a tranny after a couple years and approx 150k miles and nothing else. My 2007 was trouble free for the three years that I had it, and much cheaper to buy than an import. I was ahead. Had to sell it due to moving. Few years later, looking to full time, back at the same situation. The GM vans had become ridiculously affordable compared to anything else on the market. And came with the 240hp 3.9l v6, one of GMs best engines that they had been making for over 20 years. Solid and reliable engine, good fuel economy too. Pickup with this same engine was worth at least double, if not more and got worse mpg. I chuckle at that one.
And they have average reliability, parts are easy to get and reasonable price. Beat that with in an import? But then, there's always a catch. The tranny can be iffy. 50/50. So once again, how to improve your odds? Get as low mileage as you can and from a single owner, well maintained. That is how you do it. Ideally.

Did I? Well, mostly. Sometimes time imposes it's will. I was on a deadline with an expiring lease. Pressure was on, deadline. Scoured Craigslist, zip all-over looking. At least I had it narrowed down to one model. Finally locate an original, older owner, mostly Southwest, rust free. But damn, higher mileage than I would have liked but the price was right, and everything worked. $2600 for a 7yr old van with 175k miles (didn't plan mega miles). No other type or model for the year even comes close. Heck, 20+ yr old RVs and full size vans go for this price. Even IF it needed a tranny at some point, still only be about +$1500, figure I'm still ahead compared to anything else. Toyota vans at the time were $10k+.
And it was white, perfect for the Southwest sun. Bought, seats removed, threw on my motorcycle hitch, built the plywood rooftop, threw in a good memory foam mattress, loaded my stuff/motorcycle, and I was off for adventure!

Haven't looked back. 30k miles in three years, never stranded nor a problem except for rad. Reasonable after 9 years. Tranny clunks from time to time, but still chugging along. Tip on these vehicles, change fluid every two years and install trans cooler. Check.
Need suspension with air shocks and air bags due to moto weight on back. Check.
Add high performance discs and brake pads due to increased weight. Check. New, hi mileage, premium tires bought at great discount. Check.
Change and flush all fluids, check.
Rock and roll my friend, Rock and roll.
Knowledge is power.

 

[Gypsy Clipper]

This is my third Oldsmobile Silhouette. They are usually pretty fancy and well cared for.Plus they fit a 4x8 sheet of plywood which makes them nice to customize.

Sent from my Alcatel_5044R using Tapatalk

 

[Gypsy Clipper]

Plus they come with an air compressor built in. It's not powerful enough to run tools but it will keep you from getting stranded with a flat.

Sent from my Alcatel_5044R using Tapatalk

 

[user 37446]

Just a quick CL check for Phoenix, with limitations on price of $1200-$2600 showed about 32 minivans, with at least a few being Honda and Toyota from 1999-2003. 

All had mileages from 125K-225K or so, no rust in pics, 1 was a Dodge GC from a Dodge technician (was his dads). 

I remember you liked the GM 3.9 motor, what did your research tell you about the Ford 3.9, Ford 4.0 and the Chrysler 3.8?  What years of GM do you prefer and what about the Dexcool intake manifold issues?

Did Ford have the same long life coolant sludge problems?

Thanks, well maybe. I was all set to look at full sized and now the minivan idea has been reawakened.  Sigh...  :s

 

[Minivanmotoman]

Ok, will give you the easy answer to all. Google each specfic engine. Check Consumer Reports, Edmonds, TSB database, a few suggestions. Don't know every motor. Familiar with GM, my preference. So older Toyota with more miles or newer domestic with fewer? Tough call, it's a crap shoot. Many import owners unload when they've used up all of the reliability so to speak. How much life is left in a reliable Toyota or Honda after 200k or 10 + years?
Nobody knows and no guarantees on that one. Accidents or damaged?
Focus on the maintenance to date and all sellers swear it's a great car and that they always changed the oil and took care of it. Maintenance dealership records and length of ownership are clues, not guarantees. Don't be swayed by tech owner of a Chrysler, if design had faults, maintenance won't remedy that. Chrysler is known to be the worst. They haven't gone bankrupt in the 70s and again in the 2000s because they were great, reliable cars.
They may have reliabke exceptions. Again, generally, do your research online in depth. I am not the Oracle of minivans. Lol.

 

[Minivanmotoman]

This is my third Oldsmobile Silhouette. They are usually pretty fancy and well cared for.Plus they fit a 4x8 sheet of plywood which makes them nice to customize.

Sssshhhh, we don't want anybody to know our secret and drive up the demand and price. Lol.
Won't happen as these vans last year was 2008.

 

[Minivanmotoman]

The Dexcool fiasco if I remember correctly was early 2000. Drain, flush, flush again and replace with standard coolant. Problem solved. Problem resolved in mid 2000 GM and why i choose the latter years, better engine, most issues resolved. Your price range hits the vehicles in need of repairs. +10yrs. The Honda tranny problem falls right in those years. If you going to buy a car older than ten years, you better know what your doing or else a money pit. 
In the Phoenix market, very hard to buy a good solid vehicle for less than $2500. Most are beat, abused and ready for expensive repairs. Save your money, get a second job. Buy newer, better,  will get more reliable. But it sounds like you can't make a decision.
First, determine your budget, decide on type that you want. Test, rent,  try, research.
Second, decide on brand, model, engine size, options.
Third, go find the best example that you can find, purchase and live happily ever after. Good choices and decisions give good happy results. Your call my friend. Become the expert of your search.

 

[Minivanmotoman]

I research as much as can be found. Consumer Reports and Edmund's are two main go to. Some question their accuracy and validity. But where else are you going to get any info on the topic? Like anything, third party info has its limitations. And FYI, the Carfax perception of being total car history and information is limited as well, apparently from reports of buyers who later found out, not accurate, complete or up to date. Like anything, do your own research, come to your own conclusions and be skeptical of opinions and research touted as fact. In a recent discussion that I had, perception bias is data distortion or manipulation for advantage or gain.
Objective and unbiased is a rare thing.