Thoughts or experience with this battery?

[benlc]

Hi! I've been researching electrical for a few weeks and am getting ready to pull the trigger on a battery. I purchased 300W renogy panels yesterday and was looking for a deep cycle ~400ah battery (hopefully not too large. we want to be able to stay off the grid for days if needed, even under the rain). I was thinking of getting 2 of this battery but couldn't find reviews online. They seem to be running pretty cheap ($200 + $25 shipping each). Any thoughts on these?

https://theinverterstore.com/product/6-volt-battery-225-amps/

Thanks!

 

[Almost There]

Keep in mind that a pair of 225 AH six volt batteries still only gives you 225 AH when combined in to a 12V system.

That gives you 50% of that to work with.

AGM batteries have their place but for the money you're spending on those have you looked at Trojan T105REs instead.

Other than the 300 Watts of solar what other means of charging are you planning on and what do you plan on powering with the batteries.

I ask because I firmly believe that no one should just depend on the sun unless they live year round in a tropical climate and can guarantee that they will have the panels out in the sun every day!

 

[ped]

they're expensive because they're AGM. Don't get AGM. Go with flooded 6v's for half the price.

 

[benlc]

Woops my bad I meant to post this in the electrical section. The batteries will also charge from the engine running and will also get a converter that I'm planning on using more rarely. Consumption will be fairly low at first (laptops, phones, small fridge, maxxfan and a small 1000w nespresso machine) but I'm leaving a bit of room to expand (extra room to add a 4th panel later on for instance). I will rely on propane for heating and cooking and don't see this changing.

Thanks for your help!

 

[Trebor English]

Two of them in series are 225 amp hours at 12 volt, 112 amp hours useable.  To get 400 amp hours you'll need four pairs.  68 times 8 is 544 pounds.  Maybe you can get by with less than a quarter ton of electricity.  Conservation is important with portable electric stuff.

 

[benlc]

Two of them in series are 225 amp hours at 12 volt, 112 amp hours useable.  To get 400 amp hours you'll need four pairs.  68 times 8 is 544 pounds.  Maybe you can get by with less than a quarter ton of electricity.  Conservation is important with portable electric stuff.

Thanks Trebor. I was actually counting on 225 being enough (therefore 225x2). 

It appears that the trojan are priced very similarly with the AGM but that it isn't maintenance free (?)

 

[John61CT]

Only get AGM if you know you have good reason.

Checking health with a hydrometer, lower cost, longer life more robust.

Not wanting to check/add water once a month is not a great reason.

Flooded Duracell GCs from Sam's Club or Batteries+, best value for money.

unless Trojan T-105's are just a little more, RE version better but often pricey.

If you think you need two pair, best to do a matched set from the beginning rather than mixing old and new later.

 

[akrvbob]

Be honest with yourself, if you won't take care of them by regularly checking the water, AGM is a far better deal.

 

[breeze]

On the issue of pragmatic utilization, why would li-ion not be a screaming value?
1. from 50% to 20% minimum charge,
2. stable self-maintenance,
3. save carrying the equivalent weight of a 55 gallon drum of oil extra in battery weight, and
4. expected battery lifetime increased >4 fold.

Even AGM does not seem worth the effort, and it's the best lead-acid has to offer. WHY are there no direct comparisons of critical required devices needed for Li-ion? I know the RV sales has acres of brand new RV's rotting, and they don't entertain the thought of anything EXCEPT lead-acid! (hmmmm.)

Things add up quickly in a van since it's a complex vehicle/home super-system and space is valuable. The technology is going fast and the prices are coming down significantly. I can't believe a ledger between the AGM and Li-ion would be that far apart not even considering running cost advantages, charge utilization, and lifetime replacement analysis.

I worked at C&D battery, and the battery industry is a lot of propaganda not wasting any efforts to hold back technology while they are milking a (lead-acid) cash-cow. Enough is enough, who's got stock in the battery companies? Where can we find this information at? It's expensive being a Pioneer in anything, especially something as complicated as a RV Van system. The time is right (Now!)

 

[John61CT]

At 5-7 times the upfront investment, and 99% of the industry having no clue how to care for them properly, LFP is not risk free.

Yes with good longevity it would pay back, but a 10-15 year horizon is farther out than most are willing to gamble

 

[RVTravel]

It may depend on which lithium chemistry you are talking about?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery
https://batterybro.com/blogs/18650-.../18880255-battery-chemistry-finally-explained

 

[John61CT]

LFP = LiFePO4

Only one worth bothering with if spending any serious money.

NMC is very common in those "generator" powerpaks, high energy density, but very short cycles lifetimes.

LFP also doesn't have the risky thermal runaway issues.

 

[breeze]

At 5-7 times the upfront investment, and 99% of the industry having no clue how to care for them properly, LFP is not risk free.

Yes with good longevity it would pay back, but a 10-15 year horizon is farther out than most are willing to gamble

Let me see that in dollars and cents per item (on a spread sheet preferably), not an old heavily biased industry consensus. Just having an accident with over 500 lbs. of battery acid flying around your van is unacceptable. I would rather allocate that dead weight to water and food. And the constant maintenance to maintain that over 500 lbs. of batteries: priceless.

5-7 times in upfront cost does not mean much when they are almost giving away lead-acid batteries: what a headache! Why would I want to invest in obsolete equipment to support the dying battery industry, with at least a part-time job's worth of effort: constantly? And if you don't maintain lead-acid flawlessly? Whoops, it just became more expensive with the same labor investment and future risks because you invested in the lead-acid obsolete supporting equipment.

Can't you see it's more than just based on longevity? It's short term, medium term, quality of life, safety, and yes... longevity too. I think the 'lead acid battery is cheaper' excuse is past tense (a long time ago, but especially now, Today!). The battery guru's always seem to say, "I user Li-Ion batteries, but since everyone else uses lead-acid, this article will stick to that." Fffft. I'll spend a few hundred dollars now just to keep from carrying over 500 lbs. of batteries in my van alone: no other reason. Ymmv.

 

[John61CT]

Are you talking about a tiny portable, powerpak or something?

The cheapest true deep cycle FLA is ~$180, and that's only ~200A!

I'm not saying don't go LFP, just realize that a large top-quality system will cost more than many here can afford to invest in their whole rig+buildout.

Even DIY (if you have the knowledge and skills) a moderate sized and decent quality bank of just bare cells, plus the beefed up wiring, protective electronics and custom-profile charging sources, you're talking minimum a few thousand.

 

[breeze]

The New Age

Lead acid batteries are truly disgusting, if you have ever worked around them in any capacity or form. In a true value analysis, you have to add labor, time, attention, risks, and probabilities of actions occurring at every step: not just bottom line costs without inevitable probabilities of failure. If lead-acid batteries were not such a 'cash cow' for the filthy lazy rich, they would have been gone much earlier than yesterday.

Powering LA may just have checkmated the fat lazy rich into making a move they have no other alternatives to make. Lead-acid batteries are a night-mare industry that over-lived it's usefulness by at least 50 years, and a toxic disaster as well. Did you know 'old' battery making facilities just condemn the land as toxic  until the end of time (or forever or just call in AL, ha ha)? I would not move near an old or a new lead-acid battery plant, fyi.

 

[John61CT]

None of which pertains to LFP being within reach or not.

Everything you say I think about fossil fuels. But without gov subsidies, few can afford to be pioneers going all-renewables-only in their home, vehicles food sources etc.

Just not practical for ordinary non-rich non-lazy people.