The reality of not having a home, and getting old.

[GotSmart]

This is the subject that is close to my heart.  I have been homeless, home free, a landlord, and have worked in different assisted living facilities.  I have seen what reality is in many different places.  Vandwellers, to the most part, live in homes that can go places.  Some of us are just one broken part from the street, while others have the ability to fix everything.  

Can I get some reactions?

http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto...-to-address-more-older-adults-on-streets.html


"The average life expectancy for a homeless older adult is 63 years, compared with 80 for someone who always has had stable housing,"

 

[Queen]

My first thought about this piece is to look at the intention of the parties. Being intentionally without a fixed dwelling as opposed to becoming homeless against your will.

Most homeless folks I've worked with did not choose the life and did everything they could to try and replicate the american dream as best they could under their circumstances. They acquired almost anything they could get their hands on because acquisition = normal. The tried to get a permanent roof over their heads anyway possible, they wanted to fit back into "normal" as soon as possible. It is terrifying and wrought with cognitive dissonance to be thrust into the situation, no matter the reason.

People who CHOOSE to walk away from the dream, and all it entails, are moving with conscious intention to a different and better life. The mind numbing fear is lessened by the intention (not to say it isn't scary to leap, but it is a choice rather than a requirement).

 

[mayble]

Interesting article. 

"The average life expectancy for a homeless older adult is 63 years, compared with 80 for someone who always has had stable housing, she said."
That's a rather meaningless statistic, isn't it?  Kind of a chicken-and-egg situation.  Is poor health (and shorter life span) a result of homelessness, a contributing factor, or neither?  Causal vs casual.

I'm guessing you'll also find that a larger percentage of homeless people have no college education, but I don't think living on the streets is what kept them out of college.  Nor is a lack of a degree keeping them homeless.  Other factors, everything from family support (or lack thereof) to mental health to addiction to damn bad luck are at play.

I don't see how it relates to those who thoughtfully and purposely choose an alternate lifestyle.

 

[MrNoodly]

I'm not homeless, I'm just houseless. My van IS stable housing. I own it. I can't be foreclosed upon. A landlord can't kick me out. No matter where I go, I'm in the same space, with all my familiar stuff. More importantly, I'm living the life I want, which is great for improving one's longevity. After all, what's the point of a long life if it's not the life you want?

"...just one broken part from the street..." I'm already "on the street" by most people's standards. A broken part just means I'm not mobile for a while.

 

[Stephen]

It seems to me that life span may be more a factor of healthy diet, protection from the elements and predators, and good health care. If you are homeless by force, you have none of these. If you are houseless by design, you more than likely have provisions for yourself.

I would disagree with her on one more point. I don't think the majority of homeless are the result of not having a home, per se. I used to work in the state mental system. When the state hospitals closed, there was nowhere for the patients to go. The counties did not have the resources to care for them. Those folks went on the street. When you compound homelessness with mental illness, you have a lot of people living on the street who cannot take care of themselves.

 

[Queen]

... I would disagree with her on one more point. I don't think the majority of homeless are the result of not having a home, per se. I used to work in the state mental system. When the state hospitals closed, there was nowhere for the patients to go. The counties did not have the resources to care for them. Those folks went on the street. When you compound homelessness with mental illness, you have a lot of people living on the street who cannot take care of themselves.

Remember how allll that money that had gone to support the institutions was supposed to back to their home communities to care for the folks turned out into the street?  Yeah, me either

 

[Almost There]

The governments here did the same thing...closed most of the institutions and reneged on the promise of pouring all the money in to various local assistance agencies.

Those same assistance agencies are overwhelmed at the client level, overloaded with a top heavy management structure and basically falling apart at the seams.

And we don't ever want to get me started on the assistance (or lack thereof) in the rural areas.

Typical of this is the lack of counselling for under 16 year olds who have been sexually abused....not one, none of any of the mental health or assistance counselling services within a 50 mile radius could provide counselling for a friends daughter because she was 14. They could only provide her with information on how to counsel her daughter herself. BUT since the matter was still headed for the courts, she'd been warned not to even think about talking to her daughter about what had happened because it would jeopardize the court case.

Finally, 2 years later and a move to a larger urban area, there is finally counselling available for both mom and daughter!

 

[GotSmart]

So many people are one illness away from being jobless, which soon turns into homeless.   When you are old, it is harder to recover.

Most of the members here on wheels are there by choice.  Some have been tossed aside by the system, but are survivors.  This is an option not seen by society.  The option of allowing people to be proactive in their choice of dwelling style.

 

[anewbiewannabe]

Most of the people who comment here are on wheels by choice, but who knows how many quiet members or people who read but don't join might be headed in the nomad direction because life has limited their choices. I can't organize my thoughts enough to comment any further as this hits too close to home for me.

 

[GotSmart]

That is why this forum is so valuable.  Free real world information.    If it can save someone from making a mistake~

 

[waldenbound]

This is exactly why I'm moving forward on the mobile lifestyle. Face it, no way could I afford to retire at 67, I don't know how far into my 50s I'll have a full-time job that hasn't been wiped out by automation or outsourcing.

Thats what burns me when talk of homelessness come up in news stories. It's always the heroin epidemic, or it's alcohol, or it's mental illness. The Big Three. Of course there are plenty of homeless with one or more of the Big Three, but there's a fourth cause of homelessness, ECONOMICS!

 

[eDJ_]

Nothing is certain.   No matter how we plan, whether it is a fairly decent Rig to live out our later years,  a small cottage with the white picket fence,  or whatever  we need some support around us if we become infirm.  If we don't have our minds or someone who can attend us...the Court will likely intervene and have us placed in a 24/7 facility where we are safe and can be cared for until our lives are finished.  A stroke can take us out in our sleep just a a heart attack.

This life on the road should be given similar consideration.  Anything can happen to us when least expected and our days of freedom and wide open spaces may end.  None of us plan to fail, we just fail to plan for such an event.  

So should it happen,  what do we have in place.   Similarly with a major problem with a vehicle when we are too old to deal with it.   That could put a person on the street, into a nursing home, (or at least a personal care home)  and the vehicle towed.  

Usually insurance and extended warranties are used to assure repairs for breakdowns but those are limited. 

I've had some older relatives who lived in Florida in the past.  When they lost their drivers license due to hearing or vision they had to battle with the court for a 6 month extension of time.  In that time they sold their car and sold their home so that they could move into the inner city to purchase a small  Condo. 
(this was located close to a shopping plaza with everything they would need)   So long as they could walk or
get an electric wheel chair they had enough mobility for that phase of life.   But ultimately all things are fleeting.

I think that one's mental health is their most important asset in their old age.   A person may want to consider a plan for their care by retirement years if not before.   I've heard that nursing home plans can be purchased for 2 year, 5 year, and Life.  (where the "average" stay in a nursing home is 2 years before one's end)

 

[Stephen]

Thats what burns me when talk of homelessness come up in news stories. It's always the heroin epidemic, or it's alcohol, or it's mental illness. The Big Three. Of course there are plenty of homeless with one or more of the Big Three, but there's a fourth cause of homelessness, ECONOMICS!

We are semi being forced into it. We both want to travel but we are moving into our daughters home as a home base because we can't afford to live in New York once the wife retires. Property taxes here make it impossible. Was I a heroin addict? Was I an alcoholic?

No, I left a pretty nice job to go into the ministry. What I got was a salary that was barely enough to live on and no benefits. When I disagreed with a bit of doctrine I was declared a heretic I was thrown out of the church and thrown out of the church housing I had. We had one week to move our family. 

Yes, getting old can suck. Not having enough, whatever it is, can suck. I plan on living the rest of my life, however long that might be, with a much different mind set. I ain't drinking' the Kool-aid any longer. I am dropping the consumerist life like a hornet's nest. I will travel as much as I can and live my life to the best of my ability.

 

[DannyB1954]

I was living on a boat in the San Francisco Bay Area when the Federal census came through. All of us living on boats came under the category of financially advantaged homeless persons.I would imagine RV people would be the same. Has an anonymous survey ever been done on what motivates you to want to be a van dweller, (either full or part time)? Do finances press you into it, Is it an avenue of escape if you find present situations difficult?, Are you driven to travel? One person of particular interest to me was Howard Hughes. He often traveled as a transient.

It would be interesting for an anonymous poll about members income. Some here have rigs that easily cost as much as a small house in a rural area, others have to scrimp and save for a 30 year old van.

Some areas, (like San Francisco) have outrageous housing costs, so I think that is one factor in seeking unconventional housing. For others it may be the desire to travel. When I lived on a boat I think that it was the first case, now that I am retired with a secure income I think it is the latter.

 

[DannyB1954]

We are semi being forced into it. We both want to travel but we are moving into our daughters home as a home base because we can't afford to live in New York once the wife retires. Property taxes here make it impossible. Was I a heroin addict? Was I an alcoholic?

No, I left a pretty nice job to go into the ministry. What I got was a salary that was barely enough to live on and no benefits. When I disagreed with a bit of doctrine I was declared a heretic I was thrown out of the church and thrown out of the church housing I had. We had one week to move our family. 

Yes, getting old can suck. Not having enough, whatever it is, can suck. I plan on living the rest of my life, however long that might be, with a much different mind set. I ain't drinking' the Kool-aid any longer. I am dropping the consumerist life like a hornet's nest. I will travel as much as I can and live my life to the best of my ability.

There once was a famous traveling preacher. Books have been written about him. Maybe you have heard of Jesus Christ? I have watched several videos about tent preachers. Looking at them, they all seem to eat well. I don't know what God's plan is for me. I assume I am guided into whatever I need to experience whether I like it or not. I hope you find what is your next right thing to do.

 

[TrainChaser]

"About half of the homeless in the United States are people 50 or older, studies show. The number of older homeless adults is projected to increase by 33 percent in the next decade and double by 2050."

I would bet some real money that it will be worse than those projected figures!

Nine million jobs have been outsourced. The prices of the crap at WallyWorld is jumping up, sometimes 100% in a matter of months. You really can't get help as a senior unless you're completely destitute, but every drunk and drug addict gets housing, cash, free medical care and a cell phone. If you're over 50 and lose your job, it's really tough to get another one (even if it's not comparable to what you lost). You go to a job interview with the 30-year old manager, and what do you think the result will be? Do you think that he's going to hire someone who is old enough to be his mother or father and will be telling him what he should do? Or is he afraid that we might actually know more than him and try to get his job? Hired? No.

I have a serious case of A.D.D. (meaning that I have the attention span of a gnat, and if I'm not interested in something, it takes forever to learn it, if at all). My last temporary job has ended. I have no college education (my father went blind during my senior year in HS, and I had to get a job to help out). While I can do some things on a computer, everything else is a total mystery to me. I've never had a job that provided a retirement. I've never gone on a vacation that didn't involve camping. I can't afford to replace the equipment to maintain this acre of land, I have to do it by hand. I garden by hand (no rototiller). I can't afford to maintain this decrepit mobile home that leaks from one end to the other. I will be putting this place up for sale next spring, but I don't know how that is going to work because the house is not salable, and I can't afford $6,000 to have it dragged off. The sale price will be just for improved land, not for a house and land, so how much will I lose after putting $20,000 cash down and making payments for 15 yrs?

I worry all the time, and wake up about 3 a.m. and worry until I fall asleep about 5 or 6 a.m., but at least now I have a plan (THANKS, BOB!!!).

 

[DannyB1954]

I hired an old guy to help me paint my van, ( I think he was actually younger than me, I'm 62). Big mistake. I had to do most of what I hired him for, (prep for paint), all day long he moaned and groaned whenever he moved. I painted yesterday and we started putting stuff back on today. He couldn't find any of the hardware for the things he took off.

I guess my advice for other old guys is don't claim that you can do what you can't. It will really piss of the person paying you.

 

[Ella1]

I hired an old homeless man I knew from church to clean part of my house. He worked the way I thought he should have, but started telling me his sister cleans house in a wealthy area of Boston and gets $25 an hour. He told me that several times. (I was paying him what we agreed on, standard for this area.) He broke or damaged 4 things during that 4 hours.
I hired him a second time for yard work--pulling weeds mainly--but also cleaning the outside area and some inside work. He did some damage, and it seemed to me this time he was sitting more than working. It was hot and he is old, I asked him to come inside to work, but he refused, wanting to get the outside finished. He got paid. I called him once more, he didn't come, didn't seem to want to, and I haven't called him again.

 

[anewbiewannabe]

Aww. Y'all are bringing back memories of my dad. He always wanted to help but would do things his way instead of how he was asked. So many things I had to go back and spend twice the time fixing instead of it actually being a help. I'm still missing tools because he could never put them back and I couldn't always find where he set them. It's good to know ahead of time it wasn't just a family trait so I don't pay anyone for that kind of help, but I'd put up with all the headaches just to have him around again. Never will understand why someone can do things meticulously for themselves and then not do them the same for someone else---especially family.

I've been the captain of projects and crew on projects. I know it's not just being female that makes the crew try to command. I figure my project/my way and someone else's project/their way is the way it should be. I make great crew---don't know why it's so hard for so many. Well, I did make great crew---can't do so much anymore.

I must admit that tendency really concerns me as someone who can't do everything except the 2 person jobs herself anymore. My grandma got taken on multiple occasions. I also saw the kind of treatment my GIL received in a private nursing home. The idea of being in a state nursing home when my mind is still functioning scares the bejeezus out of me. Homelessness without wheels would literally kill me but it seems to be something many in my state must face before getting housing assistance. I'd rather go for a permanent hike into the wilderness than to be reduced to truly homeless or live in a state nursing home.

 

[Queen]

Another thought on this... how long of a life is enough? We seem to have this weird benchmark of old age being a goal, rather than quality of life we focus on quantity. I'd far rather live an authentic life doing what I want to do, even if it lessens my years, than exist is a life not of my choosing, and live longer. In some respects both would be ideal, but personally I'll take my chances on the former.