super cheap older van vs. newer van

[steveh2112]

i'm getting closer to buying a van for a 6 months trip. i'm not sure what i'll do at the end of the 6 months, store it or sell it. i'm leaning towards selling it because for personal reasons, i may not be able to come back to the US for a couple of years.

so with that in mind, i'm in a quandary.

do i but a cheaper, older van like this guy https://vanlivingforum.com/Thread-Did-I-get-a-good-deal '84 73000miles (if true) $1400 and be prepared to spend a bit of money on it and deal with some break downs

or buy a newer 2002-2005 van with about 100k miles for about $6-7000 and hope it will need less(or zero) work.

i'm thinking the older van is less likely to loose a lot of value since its lost most of it already, but may also be hard to sell.

as to which will need less money spend on the road, that is a crap shoot of course but one would assume the older one will need more work

what would be a better strategy if i'm concerned about reducing the total cost of the trip, including getting money back at the end?

thx

 

[anewbiewannabe]

That's a quandry similar to the one with which I'm struggling. I don't know anything really, so this is just thoughts of someone wondering too. If you are mechanically able then the question is more challenging, but if you can't or don't want to do the work yourself then I'd opt for the newer one. If you are only looking at putting a few thousand miles on it I can't see the newer one depreciating that much since the age of the newer ones you mentioned is such that they've already gone through the major depreciation. Ultimately it's a crap shoot since there's no way to know what kind of issues might come up with either. So, what's the best way to enjoy the ride in your mind? If it were me I'd think less about getting the money back on the van at the end if it were possible---that way whatever you get back is gravy.

 

[steveh2112]

i've been looking at some craigslist vans and looking on kbb.com then adding 10k miles and seeing how that changes the price. on a van with 100k+ miles already, its insignificant. the change in blue book is about $100 for a 2004 GMC safari with 168k miles.

i'm not clueless about mechanical stuff but would not think about doing something like changing a water pump by myself for fear or making something worse. plus i will not have many tools.

i guess the important thing is to be confident you are getting a trouble free vehicle in the first place as best you can. have it really well checked out by a mechanic

 

[TucsonAZ]

I would personally go with older and attempt to find a Ford E250 with the 300 Inline 6 4.9L motor. You should be able to find a nice one for $2,500 or less, do a full service (including trans and bearings) and I think y you'll be super happy with the outcome.

 

[grummy]

Cheap older van is my preference, BUT, you really want to find something with as little RUST as possible. Here is the deal..... Go to any of the popular autoparts websites. Look up a starter, water pump, Alternator, Master Brake Cylinder, Etc for the older vehicle..... then COMPARE those prices with that of the newer vehicle. I find that newer is almost always costing more. Often times considerably more.

The next question is how old is old to each individual ? My Kind of old especially for vans is PRE fuel injection. You know what a 1984 Chevy Van would do on the highway with a 350ci in it ? About 16mpg. You know what a 2007 Chev van gets with a 350ci engine ? About 16mpg ! They have added thousands of dollars in electronic control you must keep operating in order to... gain nothing (spare me the save the planet crap because they are not doing that either).

So, what is the difference ? Well, I can have a carb professionally rebuilt for about $100. I can get a brand new carb for about $250. If your newer van's fuel system starts to act up, $250 ends up being like a "down payment" for repair with "injection spyders", "Mass Air Flow Sensor", "throttle body injector", Sensor this, Sensor that..... always running very high prices and no assurances they fix anything (usually you replace numerous "sensors" and it still does not work quite right). I have a 1996 Chevy express here currently.... it has FOUR oxygen sensors !!! For WHAT EXACTLY ???

A reputable fuel pump for my Astro Van costed $374 !!! Yet, a brand new fuel pump for my 1982 Chevy truck ran a whopping $28.50 ! AND, I did not have to drain all the fuel out of the tank and pull it, only to find about 6 rusted fuel lines that had to be fixed for another $100. Took me about 15 minutes and a 9/16" wrench and I was done.

Then you have ABS brakes. Sensors upon sensors. A friends newer van had what felt like a bad master cylinder. After replacing a PILE of expensive stuff, they found the ABS unit itself to be bypassing fluid internally. A new unit was $1800 ! For What ? There was life before ABS. trust me.

Dare I mention the sensors involved with Air bags ? How about "auto park" controls ? Another friend just spent 2 hours with their late model Toyota not starting. Its got one of those fancy START buttons on the dash instead of a key. After hours on hold with a dealer, they finally figured out the Key Fob might be faulty.... $350 some dollars if it was not under warranty.

Point is, all this new crap they have shoved down our throats has done literally NOTHING for Vans.... Pickups had a little gain, but not vans. Sadly, clean older vans are getting really hard to find. What I wouldn't do to find a rust free, 1978 Chevy van that I could afford...... Heaven on wheels ! And being a chev, CHEAP parts for ever !

 

[SoulRaven]

Having had vans ranging from very new to the older ones, I can tell you through experience that the older vans are FAR more reliable and are much less likely to dollar you to death than the newer ones.

I like the vans from the 70's and 80's. They are done depreciating and if you simply maintain them these things are stone cold reliable and never break down.

Every 90's & newer van that I've ever had ALWAYS had something that needed fixing. This sensor, or that electronic doohickey, or the wipers died, or the tranny failed, or overheating problems, the list was endless and never ending.

With the older ones, lube/oil, tires, gas and they'll darn near run forever.

I have personally put almost 400k miles on this '86 Dodge w/ 318 engine. It had over 100k on it when I bought it for $1,000. Other than the normal maintenance (hoses, belts, oil changes, brakes, tires, etc.) the only items I have needed to replace was 1 starter, 1 water pump, and 1 alternator. At 350k miles it started smoking, so I switched to smokeless oil, and it is still running strong. I feel like it's good for another 100k before it will need a new engine. I did choose to put electric fans on both the radiator and transmission cooler, and I traded out the fuel pump for an electric one to solve a problem I was having with it starting if it had been sitting for a long time. You just had to crank it forever for the original mechanical fuel pump to get the gas up to the carb if it sat for more than a week. With the electric fuel pump it will fire up instantly no matter how long it's been sitting.

Anyway, my vote is for older vans all the way!

 

[steveh2112]

great info everyone, thanks, i'm glad i asked. i assumed i'd get a mix of somewhat obvious answers but instead got some great info to think about. especially the KISS comments (Keep It Simple Stupid, not the crappy band), i can see how avoiding all that electronics makes it a lot cheaper and easier.

 

[karl]

I second everything grummy and Off Grid have said concerning new vs older..

 

[mconlonx]

Set a budget and stick to it. Then keep an open mind when looking around. I wouldn't make a decision like this -- old/new -- until I started seeing what was out there. Older can be had cheaper, but there may be things wrong with it -- just be sure to account for repairs in the purchase price vs. a newer van with less in need of immediate repair.

When I was looking for a van, there were all kinds of older, cheaper vehicles I just wrote off completely due to typical New England rust. Others had issues which would have pushed them over my budget. I'd narrowed it down to something in the 2001-3 range for a newer model, but if I'd stuck with that, I never would have looked at the '98 cutaway I ended up with (see avatar). Little rust, 96k mi, nothing immediately wrong with it. The one repair I had made on it cost $425, so with the purchase price ($2500) + this one repair 10 mos later, I'm still under my oroginal $3k budget.

I don't know that I would have done any better on a newer regular cargo van which probably would have had higher miles.

 

[idn88]

Your success is going to have more to do with how the previous owner maintained the thing rather than the year or mileage. So if you have the budget, I would keep your options open and look for a deal.

 

[akrvbob]

First, there is no right or wrong answer, you just can't generalize so broadly because it depends on the individual vehicle you buy. But, I think you can fairly make these generalizations:

1) If you are a mechanic, or willing to learn, you might be better off with an older van because you can fix nearly everything cheaply yourself.
2) If you are not a mechanic you are probably better off with the newest van you can afford with the fewest miles because it will need far fewer repairs.
3) Get every van checked out by a mechanic because reputation and the year it was built are meaningless compared to how it was maintained. The best van ever made is still going to be crap if it was abused.
4) Generally the older a van is, the more owners it had and the more chances it had to be abused.

I know some of you think that's wrong, but we'll have to agree to disagree because I very firmly believe that's true.

My advice is that unless you are a mechanic, to buy the newest van you can afford.
Bob

 

[Canine]

What Bob said makes sense to me.One caveat:if you are going into Mexico,the resale value of any vehicle will be less when you return.

 

[highdesertranger]

well I am totally in favor of older vehicles, however in your case because you really only want the van for one extended trip, I would go with Bobs advice. highdesertranger

 

[Baloo]

Here is my two cents, either one could be bad. Just depends on how it was used and taken care of. Old or newer could both have serious rust and mechanical issues. So here is my opinion, an older American made van had a great pets following. Companies like LMC and JC Whitney smell almost every part on em. I have found that Ford and Chevy are far more common for second hand parts where as the Dodge vans are slightly harder to find good used parts for. That might just be my area, but when I was driving my ambulance with the 1991 Ford E350 chassis and the 7.3l IDI diesel, I could always find what I needed and fast. Heck, in nine years of van (cutaway chassis) there was never a day it didn't get me where I needed to go. That being said I am a mechanic, and preventive maintenance goes a long way. Good luck on what ever you decide, and if you are close enough when it breaks, I will fix it!

 

[steveh2112]

Your success is going to have more to do with how the previous owner maintained the thing rather than the year or mileage.  So if you have the budget, I would keep your options open and look for a deal.

i'm buying in CA so rust isn't as big a deal as in the north east, no road salting in Palo Alto

about the service record, would buying a fleet van be considered better or worse than a private van in general? i assume fleet vans will be professionally maintained but the drivers maybe don't give a **** about them compared to owner/drivers

also, i saw a nice looking ex ramada inn airport shuttle but i think maybe that's something to avoid as its going to have millions of starts and stops and gear changes for relatively few miles

 

[steveh2112]

also, what about smog check? i know that can be an expensive endeavor if it fails in CA, not sure about other states

i assume newer vans are more likely to pass than older but maybe wrong about that. also any grandfather clause on older vans?

i'll look for one with smog check already done, but if i find a great deal on something in need of smog check soon, it would be interesting to know what to do. i guess go get a trail smog check before i buy?

 

[SoulRaven]

I drove fleet vehicles for many years, and many companies. They all seemed to use the same plan. ZERO maintenance, not even oil changes, until the vehicle wound up in the shop broke down. It was not uncommon for some of those rigs to go 30k between oil changes. Even then they would only do the absolute minimum to get a rig back on the road. I drove rigs with oil that looked like mollasses, and you thought you might have to drag your feet to stop them, and you had to herd them down the road to keep them between the lines.

When it was time to sell them, they got a fresh oil change and dummied up paperwork showing a perfect maintenance record.

I would NEVER buy a fleet vehicle or trust it's maintenance records. Your chances of getting a well maintained private party vehicle are much better.

 

[SoulRaven]

also, what about smog check? i know that can be an expensive endeavor if it fails in CA, not sure about other states

i assume newer vans are more likely to pass than older but maybe wrong about that. also any grandfather clause on older vans?

i'll look for one with smog check already done, but if i find a great deal on something in need of smog check soon, it would be interesting to know what to do. i guess go get a trail smog check before i buy?

Generally the older they are the lower the smog requirements.

In many states anything older than 20-25 years old gets a free pass.

 

[steveh2112]

Generally the older they are the lower the smog requirements.

In many states anything older than 20-25 years old gets a free pass.

i just looked it up for CA 'Smog inspections are required unless your vehicle is: Gasoline powered 1975 year model or older'

that's pretty old, i'm thinking closer to 2000.

the CA dmv website doesn't say anything about different rules for different ages (beyond 4 years and less than 1975)

 

[VanLifeCrisis]

Im with bob on this one. I owned 3 vans, 2 of them older cargo vans (90 and 85) and a mnivan that was late 90s i think. Its one small thing after another till they nickle and dime you to death. Unless you are a mechanic with a lot of time and a place to work on it (and the tools, also expensive) then try to get as new and low miles as you can afford, with the above caveat of checking it out thoroughly (with a mechanic if you can).

Im definitely not a mechanic, so ive been taught some hard lessons lol