Step Van

[Belchfire]

Hello All

Can anyone tell me if a Step Van is reliable and easy to fix which years are best?
Which is better more reliable  gas or diesel?
Do they make four cylinders if so which years?

Thanks

 

[JD GUMBEE]

There are a ton of threads here about these. Some very recent answering your exact questions.
Search for "step van."

 

[Belchfire]

Thanks

 

[highdesertranger]

also keep checking back because I know that 2 of our step van members don't check in regularity. but they do check in.

also to answer one of your questions,

yes they do put a 4cyl. in some step vans. it's a Cummins 4BT. an excellent diesel engine. member 66788 has one.

highdesertranger

 

[Belchfire]

Thanks
Do you know the user name of66788?

 

[highdesertranger]

66788 is the user name. highdesertranger

 

[grummy]

it's a Cummins 4BT.  an excellent diesel engine.  member 66788 has one.

Yes it is. And perhaps it is one that maybe costs the least to repair when troubles arise because it is rather mechanical. A company I worked for bought a 1982 Grumman Frito-Lay 16 footer some 10-12 years ago with the 4BT. I recall driving it home some 120 miles or so.

I had NO IDEA how anyone could stand to drive that thing every day as a route truck based on how loud it was in the cab. Not just loud but UNREAL LOUD, and night and day from the Chev 350 powered steps I was used to. I had nothing to plug my ears with and the buzzing and related nightmares took a few days to go away.

On the plus side, it was a little more tolerable around town. Performance was quite sprightly off the line with the amount of torque it had. Frito paid to have many trucks retrofitted with the 4BT, keeping the stock TH400 trans with a special bell housing adapter. One of the employees did take it a state over and said he hit over 20 mpg's with it, but it only ran 62mph on the flats because it was governed. I have no idea how it was governed but clearly by an rpm limiter of sorts because it would only rev so high. It's an engine that could have used an overdrive if you ask me.

Another issue was Frito had "shift kits" installed when they did it and this particular truck always slammed gears pretty hard, which with this much torque, cause the u-joints and ring gear to fail more than once.

Regards the noise, I have no clue how anyone could insulate the engine compartment enough to make me happy. There just isn’t enough dimension between the engines location and the front seat(s). Perhaps two layers of this: https://www.westmarine.com/buy/west...arrier-material--P006_180_006_004?recordNum=1

Then covered with 4 layers of a thick shag carpet ?.... LOL.

BEST STEPVAN MODEL ??

Undoubtedly one of the originators. Getting harder to find. The Genuine GRUMMAN before the Olson era. A good target for my preferences is 1979-1985. Fully aluminum body... some other body manufacturers use STEEL structures to support the aluminum which amplifies corrosion. Full aluminum roof you could walk on, not thin clear fiberglass. TONS of room under the hood with some minor remodeling: http://www.data-cut.com/images/step/genset1.JPG

Gas or Diesel ? Gas for me. The 14 footers I have had would reliably do 10mpg with plain old carburators both with or without a trailer in tow, and comfortably run 65mph all day long. My BIL bought a 1985 model with fuel injection and a 480LE (overdrive). Guess what he got for mpg's ? 10.... no better ! His 480LE went out and cost him $1200. I had my TH400 rebuilt once for $375. Fuel Injection system repairs can be costly as well, chasing "sensor" after "sensor".  I get high quality Quadrajet carb rebuilds for about $100.

I have plenty of friends with Diesels that have paid more for one repair event that cost MORE than a brand new small block Chevy engine replacement. One had a fuel pump failure. $900 later, he found out he also needed a new computer because it was cooled by the fuel. That was a $500 computer at a scrap yard. Small block Chevy Gas fuel pump today ? Under $30 !

When I run the "real math"..... Their "repairs" very quickly chewed up any "fuel savings" they once thought they were going to have. Seems the "real math" has caught up to FedEx and UPS as practically none of their route delivery trucks have a diesel in them any more either. Cheaper and easier to just swap a new Gas job in when it's time.

You'll have to do your own "real math" and see what works for you. Good Luck !

 

[Weldman]

The reason the 4bt with such low mpg numbers on the P30's was the engine struggling to pull a brick through the wind. If you have the skills slap a 6bt in there and watch them increase, 12v only and stay away from the 53 engine block if you do due to thin water jackets in them.

 

[Belchfire]

A lot of information and I find it hard to interpret
Which is best for reliability cost of repair and mpg?

Sorry for being a novice

 

[flying kurbmaster]

What he said is the deisels are noisier, a bit more expensive to maintain and repair, but better fuel economy. If you are intending driving a lot of miles then you might be better off with a deisel. If you are not planning on doing a lot of mileage then maybe you would be better off with a gasoline engine. I will add the bigger the stepvan the more it will cost to repair as well. A 16 footer will be on a heavier frame maybe 3 ton or maybe even 5 ton, I am not sure about the tonnage.There are also 14 footers, 12 footers, 10 footers, and even 8 footers. That is the distance from behind the drivers seat to the back doors. I know that most of the 10 footers are one ton. I think the 8 footer is a 3/4 ton chassis. Anyways usually the larger the truck the more expensive the labour and the parts because everything is heavier both to lift and in strength Usually the longer the step van the wider it gets and the higher it is too. So you have to decide how much space you need or want, what van you can find. When you get down to the smaller stepvans you also get single wheels at the back which cuts down some cost as well but you don;t have all that space to live in, nor can you carry as much, always a compromise. If you think you want a stepvan, you should test drive one to make sure you can handle the size and the noise. Often it boils down to what presents itself. I have a 10 footer, 1 ton with 6 cylinder gasoline engine, a 292 ci gm auto. I can get around 13.8 mpg us maybe a bit more. It likes to sit at around 55 mph, not a hot rod but it will clinb hills and jumps off the line at traffic lights. Ideally it would be geared a little higher. The 292 is a very good engine they also made these with a Ford 300 6 cyl which is also a very good engine as well as the famous Cummins 4bt, they also came with a 350 Chevy 8 cyl which is another good engine. The large ones came with a few different diesels that I don’t know much about but someone else can pipe in and tell you about them.
Good luck with your research.

 

[Belchfire]

Thanks Flying Curbmaster your information is helpful
I am looking for something sizewise that will be the equivalent of the 159 inch wheelbase  sprinter so not sure what that would be in the Stepvan

Also I am wondering which older models have the 4 cylinder gas engines?

 

[maki2]

Sounds to me like you need a good reference chart showing the dimensions of cargo vans so that you can compare them to the step vans.

Here you go...cargo van dimensions.
https://sportsmobile.com/van-dimensions/

unfortunately I have not found a similar chart for the various step vans

by the way if you want to park overnight on residential streets choose a van that is no more than 80" in width. Cities have ordinances prohibiting wider vehicle parking overnight in residential areas. That is for safety because of the narrow streets which at night get even narrower from all the cars parked along them. They want to be able to get ambulances and fire engines into the neighborhoods in case of emergencies.

 

[flying kurbmaster]

Thanks Flying Curbmaster your information is helpful
I am looking for something sizewise that will be the equivalent of the 159 inch wheelbase  sprinter so not sure what that would be in the Stepvan

Also I am wondering which older models have the 4 cylinder gas engines?

I have never seen a step van with a 4 cylinder gas engine. The 4bt deisel is the only 4 cyl I have ever seen in a stepvan. The 10 footer is about the same size as a Sprinter one like mine. The same length as a pick up truck fits in all parking spots. You should watch SÈVEN WANDERS OF THE WORLD you tube on how to buy a step van he has some good tips. STep vans are built on different platforms in other words they have different frames under them some are ford some are chev, and over the years they have had different drive trains. So there is not a specific model that had this or that, some had 4bt some had 6bt some had 6 cyl some had 8 cyl, some are made of steel some are made of Alluminium. Some have fiberglass roofs some have metal roofs. Often different companies would order different options for their own fleets needs, so when buying older ones they vary a lot. Check out the video it will give you a better insight into stepvans.

 

[highdesertranger]

Seven is also a member here. I have never heard of a 4cyl. gas engine in a step van. why a 4 banger? highdesertranger

 

[grummy]

Which is best for reliability cost of repair and mpg?

Well, when you put it that way.....

Reliability: "Best" for reliability is a crap shoot. One really can not find a fault with any of the drive lines used in any "step van". From Chevrolet to Ford, Cummins powered or International, I don't think anyone could say one was more reliable than the other.

When people ask "reliability", they often are focused on engine and transmission. If there was any one or two potential problem engine/transmissions, I'd say the 6.2L GM diesel and probably the early GM 700R4's. Both of those areas were improved with a follow-up version in the 6.5 and 480LE. The company I worked for had a 6.5 in a Boyertown Body (junk compared to Grumman) and that thing ran great. The 480LE's also had issues though... I've seen plenty of those fail compared to the older three speed autos. I do not think there was a standard trans that was or had any particular issue.

Rear axles need work occasionally, but they are never the component that causes a routine problem. Same goes for front axles. They are new once, and can be successfully rebuilt time after time with long lasting results.

Cost to repair: Hands down winners here are pre-1985 trucks with Ford or Chevy drive lines. Simple, common well known engines like the 350 Chev, 351 Ford, 300 Ford Six and or 292 Chev are hard to beat for low repair costs. Out of all of them, the 350 Chevy probably has the edge as there is not one corner of the continent you could go and not find affordable parts or complete engines ready to go.

Grumman did put a 250ci Six in some of the really small step vans, but frankly, that engine never seemed to impress me and I have had a few. Not to worry there much as most of the really small step vans were used so hard in short door to door work, very, very few remain and usually only as novelties. Very cute, but expensive to find in good shape.

A note here about the BODY... I'd run from any step van with a steel body unless your goal is a vintage International Metro. There you would have little choice, though I did own a 1956 International Metro-Lite that had an advanced body made from Fiberglass, Aluminum and MAGNESIUM side walls ! Incredible for 1956. See it here: http://data-cut.com/projects/step/sm122.html

The BODY is what could cost you the most to repair if it is a pile of corroded aluminum or rusted steel... even  a pile of cracked fiberglass.

MPG: There is no winner in MPG beyond the 4BT powered Grummans. I have heard stories of people hitting 28mpg with them, but had not experienced that with the one I drove. I do not care the brand or driveline, the best answer that can be given is to expect between 8 and 12 mpg for Gas powered and 10 to 15 mpg for any V8 diesels. I personally do not beleive the diesels are worth it in this size truck UNLESS you plan on being over 10,000 lb gross weight. If you have space for a full size bus instead, your better off with one as something like a big six cylinder DT466 will pull that much larger bus doing between 8 and 12 mpg's as well.

Again, to meet ALL of your "best" criteria, I'd be recommending a 1980 - 1984ish Grumman Bodied, 350/TH400 Chevy powered, Independent front suspension, 10,000lb max truck. NOTHING else will come in with lower costs to keep on the road. All you need to do is find one that was very well taken care of, and that is a feat in itself as time goes by. The MPG aspect is only one part of the entire equation. If 8-12 mpg's scare you, a Step, or practically any truck for that matter may not be for you. Perhaps a mini-van ? Old Chev Ventures, Chrysler T&C's... Windstars... they get 25-28 with a good driver. Chevy Astro's... Seems every AWD I had was better on fuel that the 2WD's... and between 16 and 20mpg max.

Be aware that ALL Step van brands could be had in 100's of combinations. Below is just a few examples from my 1980's literature:

The Kurbmaster Jr. was a 74" inside wide truck that came on Ford drivelines of 104" and 122" Wheelbases, and body lengths of 8', 9' 10'. Chevy was a 102" WB, and 7' and 8' Length.

Standard 78" inside wide Kurbmasters on Chevy came in 125", 133" and 157" WB, with body lengths in 9', 10. 11', 12', 13', 14' 15' and 16'. These were almost 73" high inside. Ford had even more combinations for the "78" series". You find these trucks to have the "Flippers" added when duals were used as the tires just hung outside the body by a smidget.

The 86 series is where things really fit the conversion world. Chevy came in 125", 133" and 157" WB, with body lengths in 9', 10. 11', 12', 13', 14' 15' and 16', BUT also added height options of 6", 8" and 12" above standard. Again, Ford too, options were massive.

THESE are the perfect truck for width and height when the 8" top was included (81" Inside). This WIDTH truck allowed the dual wheels to fully fit UNDER the body, allowing you to lower the truck for "camper" use easily.
This is what my last Stepvan was (and one prior): http://data-cut.com/projects/step/Grumliner.html (http://data-cut.com/Images/step/Old1.jpg)

Of course there are more lengths.... 18' to nearly 30 foot trucks out there, and the variations can be mind blowing. You just have to look at each truck one at a time and ook carefully for rust and corrosion issues. All mechanicals can be fixed.

If money was no object these days, I would be looking for a used "Command Center":
https://www.google.com/search?q=fre...mJHhAhUIZawKHf6PCr0Q_AUIDigB&biw=1366&bih=592

 

[Belchfire]

Thanks guys How common are 14 foot 4 cylinder gas aluminum vans?

 

[JD GUMBEE]

28MPG with a 4B powered step van?
Total 100% BS.

 

[Belchfire]

Alot of good information more that I can digest at the moment

Grummy I really like the inside of your van I took the tour 
Not fancy but functional

Your generosity is appreciated  everyone

 

[Belchfire]

Seven is also a member here.  I  have never heard of a 4cyl. gas engine in a step van. why a 4 banger?  highdesertranger

Looking for good mileage for long trips

 

[maki2]

Looking for good mileage for long trips

Fig van built out for living in it with lots of solar and batteries with under powered engine?  That will work just fine if you are always aimed downhill.   You need to think this through. It takes a good sized engine to haul around a van of that size plus all your belongings and comforts. Sure aluminum weighs less than steel but it will still be pretty heavy for a van of that size and a 4 cylinder engine is not going to be adequate.
It is not ALL about saving gas, you have to preserve the integrity of the engine by not making it do something it was never designed to do.