[split] Stealth Parking In Canada and Phoenix

[Brian_and_Jesse]

Well that makes a whole lotta sense there, "if they are looking inside you already failed at stealth".  I'll have to mull that one over some...

This thread has been split off a thread that was very rudely hijacked. Please, do NOT hijack other peoples threads. Extend the courtesy to them you want for yourself.   Bob

As far as stealth parking goes, couldn't you simply say you were on holiday?  As long as you don't stipulate a time frame, I can't imagine why this wouldn't work.

In Canada, one is permitted to park up to a 27' RV (any class) on any side street for as long as one likes.  Brian and I have a 28' Class A, 1988 Fleetwood Bounder, and not a soul has come running out with a measuring tape yet.  We don't even pretend to 'stealth' park, we just park, and in areas where folks aren't likely to complain - and no one has to date.

It isn't illegal YET to holiday in one's car or van (unless Obama's written another absurd law that I haven't heard about this week), so why bother hiding?  Why not make friends with your closest neighbors, and tell them that you're writing an article on the area, and enlist their help with historical minutia etc.  (Be sure to keep a daily journal to make your statement true - or blog, if you don't mind the medium.)  

EVERYONE I'VE EVER MET LOVES TO GIVE THEIR OPINION!

Brian and I actually DO write, sing/play, and photograph for a living, and we've been doing that all over the world for forty-plus years, but for those of you who don't either write or take pictures commercially, it isn't difficult to legitimize your lifestyle.  And don't forget those business cards, folks.  Mine has my name, picture, and links to both my website and blog.  I wouldn't leave home without them (nor sample copies of my  books and our CDs etc).

Is hiding in plain sight not a viable option?  If not, why not?   :huh:  

Shalom,


Jesse.

 

[GotSmart]

I just told people my youngest had graduated from college, and I ran away from home. I was seeing the country and relatives along the way. I might spend a day or so resting, and be on my way. Could they recommend a good _____ (whatever) and then get ready for a hour or so of great conversation and people watching out for you.

 

[Canine]

Jesse, while I certainly appreciate The Canadian "law" that you state allows people to "park on any side street for as long as one likes", we don't have that option in many or most U.S. Municipalities. Here's an example:

Anyone camping or sleeping in a car or in public within the Flagstaff city limits may be subject to trespassing and camping violations, totaling up to $2,500 in fines and six months in jail time. The current ordinance’s wording only allows prosecution of people arrested in city parks. City Attorney Patricia Boomsma supports the new, stricter ordinance, because “[…] prosecutors need to prosecute the person actually doing the camping.” The proposed ordinance aims to eliminate litter, human waste, and illicit campfires. According to Flagstaff chief of police, J.T. McCann, the ordinance is intended to promote public safety. However, local service providers, such as Stephanie Boardman of Hope Cottage, believe these ordinances are counter-productive, especially to the domestic violence victims that Hope Cottage takes in. Boardman said, “A lot of them are embarrassed to go to shelters. They just want their freedom. You penalize the people in crisis because 10, 15, 20 people are really causing an upheaval.” Flagstaff law enforcement officials have written 162 citations for camping."

I could give you numerous others... So camping in plain sight, as you refer to it, isn't an option, at least for me here... Wish it were, I'd happily abandon "stealth" and install solar on my van and allow lights on inside at 11 pm. As I write this, the van is tucked out of the way in a commercial area with no light emanating at all. I'd much rather be able to park on a city street in a neighborhood...

 

[Canine]

Here's the actual city ordinance that has been on the books since 2003 and is used by LEO to cite overnight campers... Or anytime campers actually...


23-30 Camping.
A. It shall be unlawful for any person to camp in any park or preserve, or in any building, facility, or parking lot or structure, or on any property adjacent thereto, that is owned, possessed and controlled by the City, except as permitted in paragraph C below.

B. For the purposes of this section the term "camp" means to use real property of the City for living accommodation purposes such as sleeping activities, or making preparations to sleep, including the laying down of bedding for the purpose of sleeping, or storing personal belongings, or making any fire, or using any tents or shelter or other structure or vehicle for sleeping or doing any digging or earth breaking or carrying on cooking activities. The above-listed activities constitute camping when it reasonably appears, in light of all the circumstances, that the participants, in conducting these activities, are in fact using the area for living accommodation purposes regardless of the intent of the participants or the nature of any other activities in which they may also be engaging.

C. The Director of the Parks and Recreation Department may, in accordance with the Parks and Recreation Department’s established procedures, issue special use permits or reservations to authorize youth organizations to camp or park vehicles overnight in a park or preserve. Nothing in this section shall be interpreted to prohibit camping or overnight parking sponsored by the City of Phoenix.

(Ord. No. G-3552, § 1; Ord. No. G-4660, §§ 1, 2, adopted 12-8-2004, eff. 1-7-2005)

Cross reference—Parks and recreation, ch. 24.
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[Brian_and_Jesse]

Jesse, while I certainly appreciate The Canadian "law" that you state allows people to "park on any side street for as long as one likes", we don't have that option in many or most U.S. Municipalities.  Here's an example:

Anyone camping or sleeping in a car or in public within the Flagstaff city limits may be subject to trespassing and camping violations, totaling up to $2,500 in fines and six months in jail time.  The current ordinance’s wording only allows prosecution of people arrested in city parks.  City Attorney Patricia Boomsma supports the new, stricter ordinance, because “[…] prosecutors need to prosecute the person actually doing the camping.”  The proposed ordinance aims to eliminate litter, human waste, and illicit campfires.  According to Flagstaff chief of police, J.T. McCann, the ordinance is intended to promote public safety.  However, local service providers, such as Stephanie Boardman of Hope Cottage, believe these ordinances are counter-productive, especially to the domestic violence victims that Hope Cottage takes in.  Boardman said, “A lot of them are embarrassed to go to shelters. They just want their freedom. You penalize the people in crisis because 10, 15, 20 people are really causing an upheaval.”  Flagstaff law enforcement officials have written 162 citations for camping."

I could give you numerous others...  So camping in plain sight, as you refer to it, isn't an option, at least for me here... Wish it were, I'd happily abandon "stealth" and install solar on my van and allow lights on inside at 11 pm.  As I write this, the van is tucked out of the way in a commercial area with no light emanating at all.  I'd much rather be able to park on a city street in a neighborhood...

That's ridiculous, Dusty. And I thought America was 'The land of the free.' Guess not! I heard the other day that Colorado (I once lived in Aspen for a long time) has passed a law prohibiting people from collecting rainwater in wooden (or plastic) barrels! My grandmother wouldn't wash her face in anything but rainwater during all of her 99 years - but that was in Scotland. Thankfully, we don't have any such laws here in Canada - yet.

Brian and I must travel in the States for seven months, beginning in November and carrying on through May. Fortunately, we're working with churches, so parking for the week that we're there isn't a problem. We don't have anything much scheduled for December though, so we were thinking about visiting Quartzsite. I'm not sure yet what we'll do. So much has changed since the turn of the century that I'm not up on local laws anymore. Used to be, the Canadian/U.S. border was of no more import than a stoplight, and camping just about anywhere seemed to be okay - as in we NEVER ran into trouble. That is NOT the case now, sadly. So, no parking on city side streets, eh? Bummer!

Of course, there are places in Canada that don't permit overnight parking, like Whistler and other upscale ski resorts. There are RV campgrounds, but they cost a fortune, and they're so crowded that I wouldn't want to camp there anyway.

Oh well, we do what we must. We need an RV because we must carry what we need for working, but if we were just living day to day, I'd scale down to a van in a second. We've owned a couple of vans in our time, new ones, and they were great for traveling - even with kids! If we're spared long enough to get too sick or too old to do concerts, a van would do nicely, I'm sure.

Shalom,

Jesse.

 

[RVTravel]

BLM land is too close to Flagstaff to not use it and just go into town as needed.

 

[BC Guy]

In Canada, one is permitted to park up to a 27' RV (any class) on any side street for as long as one likes.

I don't know where you get this from.
Here are a couple of examples.
 http://www.cnv.org/City-Services/Streets-and-Transportation/Parking-in-the-City/Parking-FAQs#rv
City of North Vancouver - read "Can I park my RV on the street?".
RVs may only be parked on the street in a residential area between 6:00am and 6:00pm. After 6:00pm they must be removed from the street. On all other streets RVs may be parked up to 24 hours before they must be moved.
http://vancouver.ca/streets-transportation/unsigned-streets-and-lanes.aspx
Vancouver - read under "Street-parking regulations"
Section 17.6 (f): Between 8:00am and 6:00pm every day, do not park your vehicle for more than 3 hours in front of residential or commercial properties that you do not own or work at.
And forget the street, in some places you can not park your RV in the driveway in your front yard.

 

[Canine]

No kidding. I wondered about that statement but didn't want to challenge it. What does it matter to me, I don't cross the border.

 

[akrvbob]

We are totally off-topic. If you want to talk about stealth in Canada, that is a great topic--please do!! BUT! Start your own thread.

It's very disrespectful to the original poster to say to him, "What you want to talk about isn't important, let's talk about what I want to talk about."

I know how easy it is and I must admit I am guilty at times too.

Please folks, as an act of courtesy and kindness to each other, let's stay on topic as much as we possibly can.
Bob

 

[Brian_and_Jesse]

I don't know where you get this from.
Here are a couple of examples.
 http://www.cnv.org/City-Services/Streets-and-Transportation/Parking-in-the-City/Parking-FAQs#rv
City of North Vancouver - read "Can I park my RV on the street?".
RVs may only be parked on the street in a residential area between 6:00am and 6:00pm. After 6:00pm they must be removed from the street. On all other streets RVs may be parked up to 24 hours before they must be moved.
http://vancouver.ca/streets-transportation/unsigned-streets-and-lanes.aspx
Vancouver - read under "Street-parking regulations"
Section 17.6 (f): Between 8:00am and 6:00pm every day, do not park your vehicle for more than 3 hours in front of residential or commercial properties that you do not own or work at.
And forget the street, in some places you can not park your RV in the driveway in your front yard.

Really? I got my info straight from the cop shop. I called Van proper and worked my way east to Toronto. The main Vancouver cop shop gave me the dimensions I posted. Think I'll make another call - not that we plan to park in cities much anyway, unless working, when parking is provided for us - I'd like to know the truth of it. Brian and I have parked on side streets for up to three days with no problem in North Van though (on shopping trips to the city).

I'll get back to you on this one.

Jesse.

 

[VJG1977]

Really?  I got my info straight from the cop shop.  I called Van proper and worked my way east to Toronto.  The main Vancouver cop shop gave me the dimensions I posted.  Think I'll make another call - not that we plan to park in cities much anyway, unless working, when parking is provided for us - I'd like to know the truth of it.  Brian and I have parked on side streets for up to three days with no problem in North Van though (on shopping trips to the city).

I'll get back to you on this one.

Jesse.

I know this is off topic, so with respect to the OP I'll be brief.
Thread-Find-Local-Stealth-Laws-Parking-Living-Sleeping-Camping
Read Bob's reply # 7

Thread-City-ordinances-what-s-their-motive

 

[Brian_and_Jesse]

I know this is off topic, so with respect to the OP I'll be brief.
Thread-Find-Local-Stealth-Laws-Parking-Living-Sleeping-Camping
Read Bob's reply # 7

Thread-City-ordinances-what-s-their-motive

For some reason these web pages are 'not available;' no clue why.

Jess.

 

[minimotos95]

Jesse it is highly recommended to never take legal advice from law enforcement as most of the time they don't know what they are talking about unless it's something they deal with day to day, rarely will they admit it and refer you to where you can read the letter of the law or a lawyer like they should.

Okay, on topic I see a lot of 5 gallon talk, maybe it's just because my van is smaller but 2 gallon buckets work better for me.
I also use more than a few 8 gallon rectangle(cat litter) buckets for storage.
My metal desk I found on the side of the road has proven to be a great addition with the factory bench seat(bed) facing it. more locking storage is never a bad thing.

 

[VJG1977]

My bad, I screwed up the links.

https://vanlivingforum.com/Thread-City-ordinances-what-s-their-motive

https://vanlivingforum.com/Thread-Find-Local-Stealth-Laws-Parking-Living-Sleeping-Camping

I tested these

Vic

 

[Canine]

By the way, the city I spend time in a lot uses "Municode.com", some sort of municipal code clearinghouse thingie. That was the link the actual city website said to use to read their ordinances...

 

[Canine]

At the risk of offending our moderators, I as OP found this info regarding parking of an RV. While my van isn't an rv, I thought it might help to see just how restrictive the ordinance in a suburb of Phoenix is...

"Sec. 54-114. - Parking in residential zones and upon city streets are prohibited acts.
(a)
No person shall park a truck on any street within a residential zone, except as follows:
(1)
While loading and unloading the truck.
(2)
While services are being provided by the truck's occupant. This does not include any maintenance or service of the truck itself.
(3)
For a period of time not to exceed one hour.
(b)
No person shall park a recreational vehicle or utility trailer on any street within a residential zone, except a person may park a recreational vehicle or utility trailer for a period not to exceed 72 hours up to two times per month; provided, the recreational vehicle or utility trailer does not block the driveway of another property owner. Under no circumstances shall persons be allowed to inhabit a recreational vehicle while parked on a street."

The last sentence is pretty clear. So if I had a class B van I could be cited, if I just have my modified conversion van I'm perhaps not overtly breaking the law.

Another reason for me to not have a class B... That's one of the reasons I have been attempting to have non built in furniture in my van. The more like a class B it appears, the more I feel an inquisitive LEO can choose to cite me. If I look like a regular ol' van with a few "camping items" and not containing what looks like the sum total of my personal belongings (things like "home is where you park" signs inside), then the discretion of the officer to cite me might come into play. LEO's have a lot of discretion! That's what they are trained to do.

My last two warnings from LEO's for moving violations could have been citations if I had been a jerk. Going 65 in a 55 and having my LF wheel over the center line stripe became warnings. The first was clearly speeding and she just laughed that the van could actually go that fast... The second was a much longer story that I won't relate here which was the precursor stop for a "probable cause" vehicle and asset seizure program in Amarillo Tx. Look it up sometime... Very profitable little operation they have going on there...