[split] New versus Old Vans

[ahh_me2]

Ok, here's a real world analysis of 2 older vehicles...
1986 Ford 1/2 ton van regular length with 44,000 km on it at purchase in 2008.
Paid $1500
Replaced front brake calipers $20 ea
Pads at $70 for front
after 1.5 yrs water pump- approx $100
after 4 yrs - steering linkages $200
at 7 yrs and and 75,000 km put on it looking to retire her.
1500+70+100+200=1870

***So, $1870 bucks for 7 years and 75,000 km

$270 per year or 0.0245 per km which is less than 3 cents!***

Dodge 1982 Ram 250 short van slant six with 204,000 km on it

paid $600
Rear axle seals, done by a mechanic, $250
Rear leaf springs, by me, $100

23,000 km on it in 1.5 years

600+250+100=950

***So, $950 for 18 months, and 23,000 km

$633 per year, or 0.041 per km***
Still running, so the totals will eventually come down.

By comparison, the lowest priced new vehicle in my area will run me $200 a month or $2400 a year!

My opinion? It's a no brainer, older vehicles are simply cheaper to run, carb units, old tech, a bit more expensive on gas, but
the overall cost of ownership is quite low.

Disclaimer: This was not a paid advertisement! Nor a sponsored post! This was not a scientific study! The opinions above are mine and mine alone!


Maybe this derails the thread, or it could become it's own!
If mods want to move it to a new thread, go for it!

 

[SoulRaven]

I totally agree! I have had vans ranging from brand new to older, and I have come to the conclusion that the sweet spot for vans was the 70's-80's models.

 

[GotSmart]

My van is a 91, with a 1969 318.  

Compared to the new vans cheap to fix, but not as safe or easy to drive.  The new units are much quieter.  How they will be in 25 years???

 

[Willy]

What also needs to be mentioned is that the old(er) rigs are dead easy to work on compared to the new(er) ones. It's the difference between just the cost of parts, and your own labour, versus paying a mechanic $80+/hr. ..Willy.

 

[Gary68]

i find the newer a little easier to work on,no diagnostics,run the codes and replace what it says,i never want to here the word dwell ever again
new motors are far better then older ones,better fuel economy and much more power
but some of that fuel economy comes from a lighter vehicle,a lot of plastic and thinner sheet metal in the new ones
and then there is a 2008 with 200,000 miles on it will need as much work as a 1975 but at a much higher cost

my perfect vehicle is an older one with styling and chromed interior parts not plastic and a modern drive train,thanks to the car customizers and hot rodders the after market is producing wam bam wire harness and ecu's that you just need to hook up then you can have a ls motor in your 1950's whatever

 

[highdesertranger]

so Gary that replacing whatever part comes up in the codes works for you? what happens when you get a code like random misfire? a trouble code only gives you an area to look at. a code does not say your O2 sensors is bad, replace it and everything will be fine. you will get a code like O2 sensor bank 1 sensor 2 out of range, that doesn't mean that the O2 sensor is bad it means it's out of range, several things could be causing that. you still must run test and do diagnostics to figure out the exact problem. as vehicles becomes ever more complex this becomes ever harder to do. what if you are miles from a parts house or the correct equipment to diagnose your problem and your vehicle will not run? I could go on and on. I can't agree with the post above. highdesertranger

 

[DannyB1954]

The 70's and 80's had a lot of smog junk on them. I like fuel injection, and electronic ignition. I never had a problem with either of them. I had to rebuild a lot of carburetors and change lots of points, plugs and condensers.

 

[highdesertranger]

the new ones also have a lot of smog junk on them. GM's had electronic ignition on everything from 1974 on. I can make a carb work in the middle of nowhere with no parts. what can you do with your fuel injection when the fuel pump goes out in the middle of nowhere? highdesertranger

 

[Gary68]

so Gary that replacing whatever part comes up in the codes works for you?  what happens when you get a code like random misfire?  a trouble code only gives you an area to look at.  a code does not say your O2 sensors is bad,  replace it and everything will be fine.  you will get a code like O2 sensor bank 1 sensor 2 out of range,  that doesn't mean that the O2 sensor is bad it means it's out of range,  several things could be causing that.   you still must run test and do diagnostics to figure out the exact problem.  as vehicles becomes ever more complex this becomes ever harder to do.  what if you are miles from a parts house or the correct equipment to diagnose your problem and your vehicle will not run?  I could go on and on.  I can't agree with the post above.  highdesertranger

you just told me whats wrong,sensor 2 is either reading a bad a/f mix or not working right since sensor 2 is down stream from sensor 1 and sensor 1 is not going off then i'll bet sensor 2 is carboned up,clean or replace sensor 2 and go from there

now in an non computer engine where do you start? from the beginning is where,every time from the beginning,distributor,wires,plugs,carburetor could be any got to check them all every time

and with that said,i prefer basic h.e.i and carburetor because if it comes down to it i can run a hot wire to the distributer and slowly dump gas down its throat and get somewhere

 

[highdesertranger]

I didn't tell you what's wrong I told you it was out of range and you replaced the sensor. now what if you get the same code. you just ate an O2 sensor. there are several other thing that could cause this code. highdesertranger

 

[highdesertranger]

oh yeah on a non computer vehicle the check engine light wouldn't have gone off because there isn't one there. I can tell without a stupid light if my vehicle is not running right. all that light tells you is that stuff that they added isn't working. highdesertranger

 

[ahh_me2]

oh yeah on a non computer vehicle the check engine light wouldn't have gone off because there isn't one there. I can tell without a stupid light if my vehicle is not running right. all that light tells you is that stuff that they added isn't working. highdesertranger

HaHa, that's a bullseye!

 

[idn88]

Anyone that thinks we should have stayed with non-emission controlled vehicles should be forced to breath 1970's LA air for the rest of their (shortened) life - or go live in any of the completely polluted Chinese cities. Not so say the old ones need to be thrown away, but going back to those days in general isn't something I would like to do.

Internal combustion engines still work the same way. If you can fix a 1970 Ford Van you can fix a 2010 ford Van. Sure there are more things to get in the way, but they ultimately do the same thing. Also, how many 1970 anything got 300,000 miles out of a original engine and transmission, but its not that uncommon now days.

 

[highdesertranger]

ok I am not saying everybody needs to drive an older vehicle, they are not for everybody. I was just referring to statements like, the they last so much longer, the computer tells you what's wrong, they are more reliable, etc, etc. BS. newer vehicles give you a lot more options for failure with no easy way to overcome the problem and limp in for repairs. what options does that leave you, pay for roadside assistance, stay on highways.

if you want a newer vehicle, go for it, nothing wrong about that, but don't try to tell me they are somehow better. highdesertranger

 

[akrvbob]

I can't make any comment on what's better for you.

I can say with 100% certainty that they are better for me.
Bob

 

[Ballenxj]

oh yeah on a non computer vehicle the check engine light wouldn't have gone off because there isn't one there.  

OK, this is not only funny, but oh so true!
The ideal vehicle for me would have H.E.I., throttle body  injection, and "no" stinkin computer!
Unfortunately most of those have about a million miles on them.
My latest van is a Dodge with the 5.2 engine, but the computer scares me. Two mechanic friends say that if the computer goes out I will have to have a new one programmed at the dealer. Not something I look forward to.

 

[SoulRaven]

Internal combustion engines still work the same way.  If you can fix a 1970 Ford Van you can fix a 2010 ford Van.  Sure there are more things to get in the way, but they ultimately do the same thing.  Also, how many 1970 anything got 300,000 miles out of a original engine and transmission, but its not that uncommon now days.

I will guarantee you  that many more 70's & 80's vans have exceeded that 300k mark than any of the newer ones ever will, and with far less repairs and repair bills.

Overall my take on this can be summed up pretty easily.  With an older van, duct tape and baling wire will get you back to civilization.  When some computerized component fails, you're walking...

I've had many newer vans, and they are the reason that I went back to the older ones.  In my case, money was never the issue, reliability was the issue, and every newer van, even one brand new one (at the time) failed the reliability test big time.

 

[DannyB1954]

the new ones also have a lot of smog junk on them.  GM's had electronic ignition on everything from 1974 on.  I can make a carb work in the middle of nowhere with no parts.  what can you do with your fuel injection when the fuel pump goes out in the middle of nowhere?  highdesertranger

Your vehicle doesn't need a fuel pump? If your fuel floats crack and sink you are going to repair them with?

What I would do if my fuel injection failed? I will let you worry about that because I am not going to. Many things can happen to disable a vehicle. Your distributor can fail, (I don't have one). Your vehicle can run like crap at high altitudes because the mixture is too rich, If you replace the jets and fuel rods, when you come back down it is too lean. Been there and done all that, (I used to off road in the Sierras).

 

[highdesertranger]

with a carb you don't need a fuel pump in a emergency you can use this thing called gravity. also my truck has brass float bowls, if they were plastic I would change them. if mine floats need repairing in the field I can repair them. so what if the mixture is to rich I know how to down shift. believe me I will not worry about your truck, I do know on mine short of putting a rod though the side of the block I can drive it out. hey if you think all that tech stuff is for you then go for it. personally I look at it lie this. if it ain't there it ain't going to break, if it is there it eventually will break". btw, I still off road in the Sierra's and a hundred other mountain ranges in the west. highdesertranger

 

[29chico]

OK, this is not only funny, but oh so true!
The ideal vehicle for me would have H.E.I., throttle body  injection, and "no" stinkin computer!
Unfortunately most of those have about a million miles on them.
My latest van is a Dodge with the 5.2 engine, but the computer scares me. Two mechanic friends say that if the computer goes out I will have to have a new one programmed at the dealer. Not something I look forward to.

A throttle body injection system w/o a computer?  What tells the TBI to inject fuel?