Someone Please Tell Me If This Cop Acted Strange???

[Guest]

Maybe we need a forum for Local and State laws. I couldn't find any info online about this. Someone please tell me if this cop was just being a jerk or if this has become our new reality:

I'm parked in a Louisiana Winn Dixie parking lot to get some groceries. My cats are in the truck. I do NOT park there, or stay there, or even frequently shop there.
I come out of the store with groceries to see a local cop car parked next to me.
As I'm walking to my truck, he gets out of his car, eyeballs my old lifted 4x4 and stops behind it looking at the FL license plate.

I got a feeling he was going to start some crap and I wanted to walk right back in the store. I didn't. I walked to my truck and unlocked the door.
As I'm putting my groceries in the truck, rocket scientist cop walks up and asks me, "Is this your truck?" (Rly?)
"Yes, sir."
"License and registration." (no please about it)
"Have I violated some law by shopping here?"
"License and registration. Now."
"My license is valid and points free. My registration and insurance are valid. I'm leaving, have a nice day."
"You have to show ID when told to, or I'll arrest you."

(REALLY??? IS THAT TRUE??? DOES ANYONE KNOW ABOUT THIS???)

"Officer, with all due respect, I've done nothing wrong. I'm not showing you anything. I'm leaving." I opened my door.
He grabbed my arm, put his other hand on his gun and said, "You stand right here while I run your plate and call my supervisor." That really p!ssed me off. Worse than his Nazi attitude.
"Get off me right now. This store has cameras. There are people staring. I WILL sue you for assault and harassment."
He let go, I got in my truck and left, half expecting him to shoot me. In my rearview I watched him walk into the store like nothing happened.

WHAT IS GOING ON?!?? WHEN DID WE HAVE TO START "SHOWING PAPERS" While minding our own business and doing nothing wrong????? When did cops get all grabby???

 

[peacetara]

My understanding of the law comes from: attending many classes from lawyers about how to deal with police from an activist standpoint (In my younger days I was one of THOSE activists LOL).&nbsp; I've been thru 10's of lectures, trainings, etc by lawyers and police alike, and what their rules/laws are around interacting with people.&nbsp; I even gave a few trainings back then.&nbsp; This is what I remember:<br><br><br>So, *IF* it is a traffic stop, police are legally allowed to require a drivers license.&nbsp; If it's NOT a traffic stop, then, no, they can't require you to give ID.&nbsp; We were always taught, if it's not a traffic stop, you should give them your name (and not lie about it), if asked.&nbsp; and that is the ONLY information you should ever give them.&nbsp; Otherwise you should never CONSENT to anything (except being arrested, if they choose).<br><br>I can't remember if you are legally required to give them your name, but lawyers always told us we should.&nbsp; I don't know, you would have to check into that.<br><br>But basically, while almost ALL cops are pretty decent people, there are always a few yukky ones.&nbsp; But the bottom line is, they are going to do whatever it is they are going to do, and there isn't a whole lot you can do about it. You can say NO, and say "I DO NOT CONSENT" whenever they decide to do something(like search your house, etc), but you can't stop them from doing it.&nbsp; LATER, after you have been arrested, and are in lockup and finally see your lawyer, THEN you can do something about it.&nbsp; But at the time of arrest, nothing to be done, but say NO, I DO NOT CONSENT (and say absolutely NOTHING else).<br><br>In this situation, since you were not operating the truck, is it a "traffic stop"? I dunno, that's something lawyers would have to figure out.&nbsp; I'd venture to guess, Police would think it is, and if you had a great lawyer, MAYBE it wouldn't be.<br><br>Anyways, I don't really want to start the thread of how awful (or awesome) cops are.&nbsp; I think most people can reasonably agree that MOST cops are decent people, just like EVERY profession, most people are decent, but sometimes there are bad ones.<br><br>Truth is, you never really know what's going on in the cop's mind.&nbsp; Maybe he just heard about a child kidnapping from someone in a FL licensed truck.&nbsp; I'm not saying that justifies his rudeness, but it might give you some understanding as to WHY he was interested in you.<br><br>With Love,<br>Tara

 

[Guest]

Wow. Not cool that cops can do whatever they want to you and you can't do anything about it until <em>after</em> you've been arrested.<br>I certainly can't afford a lawyer, or bail. I doubt many homeless people can. <br>Thanks for the reply.

 

[Willy]

This is your tax dollars at work folks&nbsp; That's Texas' finest protecting youze all..&nbsp; ..Willy.

 

[sl1966]

Maybe he just heard about a child kidnapping from someone in a FL licensed truck.

<br><br>I'm positive this wasn't the case being hat the officer walked into the store instead of following him immediately afterwards. At the very least he should have reported it in and had another officer possibly follow and pull 4x4 over.&nbsp;<br><br>He acted strange and outsde of the norm.<br><br>

 

[user 423]

It varies state to state:<br><br>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes<br><br><br>"Reasonable suspicion" will always be in the eye of the beholder...<br><br><br>In '03 I was sleeping in my van and was checked out and asked to show my DL. I also was asked what my social security number was. Since I have always thought you're buying more trouble if you don't fully cooperate, I gave it to them but did complain and told them I had never been asked for that before. Since it was not too far after 9/11, I guess my somewhat swarthy appearance was what prompted them to ask. Or maybe they were trying to play ICE since to some I would appear to be Latino, even though I am mixed-blood American Indian. I did speak to a lieutenant at the PD the next day and he said I was not required to give my SS number.<br><br>PS: It wasn't in AZ.

 

[mockturtle]

While I agree the cop was being a jerk, I also have learned [through an encounter with a NV state trooper who was a real nut case] that it's best to keep my mouth shut when dealing with the police and show them whatever documents they want to see.&nbsp;

 

[VanLifeCrisis]

If you are operating a motor vehicle, you have to present a driver license and registration when asked.&nbsp; If you are walking down the street you just have to give a first name in most states but not all, so check.&nbsp; Never lie though, never say 'i dont have a license on me' if you do.&nbsp;&nbsp; Just refuse on the basis of you not being required to do so.&nbsp; Lying to police is illegal, even if it isnt illegal for them to lie to you <img rel="lightbox" src="/images/boards/smilies/frown.gif" class="bbc_img">&nbsp;&nbsp; And never ever resist physically (i know you didnt but for instance, yanking your arm out of his grip or shoving would be baaad).&nbsp; <br><br><br>Hes supposed to have a reasonable suspicion of a crime to detain you or pull you over.&nbsp; Having a hopped up out of state van isn't a crime.&nbsp; Of course since there are literally millions of crimes on the books they can usually make something up later but since you mentioned cameras he prolly knew it would be a hassle to make up a reason to detain you.<br><br>So yeah, basically what tara said.

 

[Pikachu711]

What struck me as somewhat odd was the fact that the officer approached you on <STRONG>private property</STRONG>. If your van were parked on some type of public area such as on the street that gives the LEO the authority to request your information.<BR><BR>But just sitting in his patrol vehicle in a parking space next to your van on private property&nbsp;isn't really "reasonable suspiction" to request further information from you. Now if you met the officers reasonable suspicition of the following.<BR><BR><STRONG>Does the officer:</STRONG><BR><STRONG>(1)&nbsp;suspect you have just committed a crime?</STRONG><BR><STRONG>(2)&nbsp;suspect you are in the act of commiting a crime?</STRONG><BR><STRONG>(3)&nbsp;suspect that you are about to commit a crime?</STRONG><BR><BR>If you don't meet&nbsp;any of the three categories of "reasonable suspicition" the officer has no right to stop, question or detain you.<BR><BR>Also,&nbsp;the important question to ask the officer in a&nbsp;diplomatic&nbsp;way is:<BR><BR><STRONG>"Officer, am I free to leave or&nbsp;am I being detained?"</STRONG><BR><BR>If the officer tells you that you are not being detained than you should be free to continue on your way. If&nbsp;the officer tells you that you're being&nbsp;detained the next&nbsp;question you need to ask is:<BR><BR><STRONG>"If&nbsp;I'm being detained,&nbsp;what crime am I being&nbsp;charged with&nbsp;at this time?"</STRONG><BR><BR>If the officer tells you that you're not being detained, then you should be free to leave.<BR><BR>If any of you are former LEO's I would appreciate any input on this subject. I mean no offense to those of you who were LEO's as well. I'd like some input on this subject as well.<BR><BR>In closing, I know that LEO's have a difficult job. I could never do this&nbsp;type job. But&nbsp;this type&nbsp;profession is a&nbsp;reflection of society. The vast majority of officers I've encountered have been good people who have&nbsp;a hard&nbsp;job. But like&nbsp;in any profession, there are a mix of many type people. The vast majority of LEO's tend to&nbsp;be fair with the majority of the people they encounter. Once in a great while you encounter an office who's having a bad day. Let's hope that these&nbsp;encounters are rare&nbsp;at best.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;

 

[owl]

Sounds like the cop was a power tripper. 4x4 handled it well. Often asking politely to speak to the patrolmans Sgt. will send things down the right path. Private property has nothing to do with anything if the officer thinks you have committed a crime or are in the process of committing a crime.

 

[VanLifeCrisis]

It could be, and this is speculation, that he was doing off duty security work for the walmart.&nbsp; When I worked at target our security guys were police officers, one gave me a ride home in his unmarked police car complete with the lights etc.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The fact he went inside the store after made me think this could be the case.&nbsp; <br><br>I know that even off duty cops can run licenses etc, the retired cop that does my security at the motel does this (it might just be a "tip of the hat" kinda deal from the state police though) on trouble guests and suspicious vehicles.

 

[josephusminimus]

Sounds like a two-bit cowboy gunslinger on a fishing trip.<BR><BR>The fact he didn't explain why he was asking says he didn't see himself as a public servant, wasn't willing to explain why because his reason wasn't supported by anything more than his belief he had the right to demand.

 

[lampliter]

Did I ever tell you about the 2 that stopped me on the Pinellas Trail in Florida;<br>1 male, 1 female in bloused boots asking me in a very adept tone of voice "Have you ever been arrested?"<br>Of course Florida is the land of the lunatic fringe anyway.<br><br>P.S. The Pinellas Trail is a trail for walking and bicycling only, no motor vehicles allowed and you're not supposed to be on it after dark (which I was).

 

[peacetara]

sl1966 I agree, that's probably NOT the reason, I just used it as an example.&nbsp; Cops will never tell you WHY they are interested in you.<br><br>With Love,<br>Tara

 

[user 2252]

Somewhere in this forum was a link to your rights as a citizen of the United States. I'll post this one:<br><br>http://www.aclu.org/drug-law-reform-immigrants-rights-racial-justice/know-your-rights-what-do-if-you

 

[cyndi]

I don't know if the cop acted strange, but it seems inappropriate, for sure. Hope you don't hear from the law or see him again!

 

[josephusminimus]

It's an anecdote worth tagging, numbering and tucking into the hatband for further pondering.<BR><BR>There's a mild irony that we take for granted in this brave new century that such things happen and are likely to happen again, and that whether the happening of them is legitimate calls for hair-splitting nuance of interpretation of our 'rights'.<BR><BR>Used to be an ad urging women to smoke a particular brand of cigarette cheering, "<EM>Baby, we've come a long way!"</EM><BR><BR>Indeed we have.<BR><BR>Maybe a few more layers of cops to watch the cop-foxes guarding the henhouse, or issuing badges and firearms to the ACLU's the only solution.

 

[gadgetMe]

4x4chevyk5<br><br>You did the right thing<br>A llitle more enlightenment...<br><br>[video]

 

[Guest]

Ok, this has really been making me mad. I got a chance last night to ask a State Highway Patrol cop about it.<br><br>He was in a gas station and I pulled in just to ask him.<br>I made sure to park where he could see me and to get out of the truck to walk over to him.<br>"Excuse me officer, may I ask you a legal question?"<br>"I may not know the answer; what's it about?"<br>"Regarding the Louisiana Stop and Identify Law, can any officer just walk up to a person in a grocery store parking lot, and for no reason, demand your license &amp; registration, then threaten to arrest you for not complying?"<br>"It depends, what were you doing?"<br>"Coming out of the store with groceries."<br>"You weren't driving or in the vehicle?"<br>"No Sir."<br>"Did you say or do anything that the officer might find suspicious?"<br>"No sir. I walked to my truck, opened the door and put my groceries inside. My license, tags &amp; insurance are valid."<br>"Did you show him your license and registration?"<br>"No sir. When I refused, he grabbed my arm and threatened me with arrest."<br><br>At that point his eyebrows went up into his hairline. He thought about it for a minute and asked:<br>"It was the local police? Of course it was. You aren't required by state law to carry ID unless you're doing something that requires ID, like driving. If you know you haven't done anything wrong and the officer can't or won't state the reason for requesting ID, in other words, tell you what you're being accused of that could lead to him possibly arresting you, you don't have to show ID."<br><br>"Thank you officer."<br><br>I was about to walk away when he told me, "Hey. No officer has the right to touch you exept to pat you down or arrest you. Next time, ask if you are being arrested and why. They either have to tell you or you have the right leave."<br><br>"Thanks again. Have a good night."

 

[MK7]

&nbsp; I WILL sue you for assault and harassment." He let go, I got in my truck and left, half expecting him to shoot me. In my rearview I watched him walk into the store like nothing happened. WHAT IS GOING ON?!?? WHEN DID WE HAVE TO START "SHOWING PAPERS" While minding our own business and doing nothing wrong????? When did cops get all grabby???

<br><br><br>YOU get my vote for being one tough cookie. You did everything right. <br><br>Although you should have said something like "am I being detained or free to go" before leaving like that. I'm not 100%, but I think that they can detain you momentarily...like if there was a crime committed in the area and you're under suspicion or w/e. <br><br>You weren't driving the car yet, just walking to it so I don't think you have to comply with his request for license/ins/registration. I guess once in the car and driving away, the cop can follow you...stop you on any BS infraction and then you'd have to produce your license then. All it takes is for him to say you changed lanes abruptly, unsafely, or w/e. <br><br>That cop seemed like an A-hole. <br><br>But IMO, if you decide to boondock in that cop's area&nbsp; in the near future, it might be a compromise for the better to play to his Nazi ego and just give him your info. Vandwelling is already &nbsp; breaking the law, so more reason to not mess with A-hole cops like these who'll surely remember you.<br><br><br><br>