Solar confusion

[Zenreaver]

First, let me get this out of the way. I'm a stroke survivor with brain damage. I have issues with numbers, and memory. Arguably, the bigger issue, is that I'm also very limited on the amount of time I'm able to spend online in a day. If I'm in front of a screen/monitor for too long, I end up with a migraine. Some days, I get zero time. Others, a few minutes. I'm very lucky if I get 2 hours a day. I HAD a plan, but then life happened.

Previous plan:
I've been doing as much research as I'm able to for almost 2 years now, and was all set to get a hybrid Rav4 in a couple months, then hit the road Feb. 1st. Now, I find myself with a Chevy Express 2500 passenger van, and pressed for time. I'm hoping to be on the road in just under 2 weeks! (I could stay here longer if I'm still installing things, but it is not an ideal situation) I'm expecting to be part-time in the van for the next 2 years. (give or take 6mo)

Since the Rav4 was a hybrid, I had really been focusing on size/weight of items, and was just going to go with a lithium solar generator and a single 100w panel. Now, I find myself with plenty of room, and no real weight or size restrictions. After being in a Suburban and then a motorcycle, this van is Huge! Pretty much everything I need, I already have figured out.. except for Solar/Battery system.

Again, I have brain damage, but I'll attempt to explain what I want. If anything isn't clear, let me know, and I'll do my best to clear things up. I have so many tabs open trying to figure this out, I thought I'd just ask for help.

As far as budget goes. I'd prefer to keep things under $1000. More than that, and I'm pushing my budget. (I could buy the 2nd battery in a couple months if I have to spend more)

I've done my power audit, and the best I can tell..
Wants:
2x 12V 100Ah Deep Cycle AGM batteries should be enough to last me for what I'm doing for the next 2 years
 
200w Solar panel. Something portable. Doesn't really matter if it folds up or not. Just something that can be stored in the van while driving, and when I'm away from it. I prefer that style, as I will learn if setting it up gets to be a hassle, which will help me on the Next vehicle. (That one will be a much longer than 2yrs, so I'm trying to learn things with this van)

Needs:
Panels to be waterproof.
Batteries to be able to be charged by the alternator while I'm driving.
Easily moved to a different vehicle.

That is about as far as I've gotten. If you wonderful people had $1000 to spend to get solar up and running, how would you spend it?

Thank you in advance!

 

[Weight]

I can recommend these for quality and customer service. You can find cheaper, but not with my recommendation.

$75 Automatic charge combiner; https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Sys...utomatic+Charging+Relay&qid=1603207997&sr=8-2

$360 200AH AGM Battery; https://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Batte...=1&keywords=amg+battery&qid=1603207815&sr=8-7

$595 Waterproof portable 200W panels; https://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Monoc...qid=1603207726&sprefix=renogy,aps,256&sr=8-10

$1030 plus the wire you will need.
https://www.genuinedealz.com/ They will also make wires and cables to your measurements with quality terminals.
Don't for get fuses. https://shop.marinehowto.com/products/blue-sea-marine-rated-battery-fuse

 

[bagabum]

. If you wonderful people had $1000 to spend to get solar up and running, how would you spend it?

Thank you in advance!

 Me, solars at $1 / watt = $200, (their water proof already, made for outdoor use),  charge controller $20 , I do not tie stuff to my alternator vehicle charging system, never/ever,  that's just me, and I would increase budget a little to get a 12V100aH LiFePo which is equivalent to two Gels at 1/4 the weight.

 

[user 423]

A 200ah AGM weighs 129 lbs. Two 100ah @ 62 lbs. each would be much easier to deal with and same price.

The foldable 200W panel w/controller weighs 35 lbs. If you don't move often then it wouldn't be much of a problem though.

Each 100W Renogy panel only weighs 14.3 lbs.

I have one 80W panel that I use as a portable and with the 1x2 and plywood frame that I surrounded it with it weighs about 16 lbs.

 

[Zenreaver]

Thanks for all the info! Lithium is a bit out of my budget right now. Two 100Ah batteries seem a bit better for me. Everything else sounds great. Still a couple small things I need to research, then am hoping to start ordering some stuff

 

[barleyguy]

For the batteries, I'd recommend two 6 volt batteries in series instead of two 12 volt batteries. 6 volt batteries will generally perform a lot better for the same size, because they have 3 thick plates instead of 6 thinner ones.

Something like this would work: https://www.mightymaxbattery.com/shop/6v-sla-batteries/6v-200ah-sla-battery/

 

[DLTooley]

Renogy makes a great folding kit with controller.

The under 500ah power stations are worth considering for all the connections they offer. There are now LiFePo4 models available.

The six volt golf cart batteries are a great option and pretty much the standard on this forum. The Walmart 12v battery with the two year warranty is also good.

Camping out of the van to start is a good plan and your Rav 4 kit will work well. Upgrade as you see fit.

My favorite stuff is a good camp chair and a folding table for outside the rig.

 

[DiANA R]

Hey all,
I am waking up to panic attacks over questions of solar. I'd like to know if I should wait until I buy a rig or go ahead and order what can get me started? I have to be out of here end of Dec middle Jan. With Covid cases going up and election I am stressed to the max. How do I find a van when I can't test drive it w/o worrying about getting sick? I don't have a car and I haven't had one for about 10 yrs. I have been quite sick for a long while and my life became pretty small. Lost friends to death and disease. But I am finally feeling like living again. I have to make this all work somehow. And I don't know how much work I can do myself. Before Covid I was going to go to the van build for help but that is gone now. Anyone else feeling like this? I am not all doom and gloom by any means just mainly feeling trapped in LA and want so badly to be gone from this huge city!!! Need that clean energy so I can keep warm and power computer and phone. My head is going every which way!

 

[DiANA R]

 Me, solars at $1 / watt = $200, (their water proof already, made for outdoor use),  charge controller $20 , I do not tie stuff to my alternator vehicle charging system, never/ever,  that's just me, and I would increase budget a little to get a 12V100aH LiFePo which is equivalent to two Gels at 1/4 the weight.

Hello bagabum..... I have been looking for solar too. I just found a power box that comes with included cables 100 W solar panel safety stuff to stop surges and protect battery and output rate. It is on amz and it is from a company called tektrum and it is approx. $820.00. That is the cheapest I have seen an all-included setup. It is easy to hook up another solar panel and to add more power bank batteries. It has ports that you can add to out side the battery. Only 4 people have used it and I haven't researched the company but the reviews were good. I am going to check it out in depth. Checked the name it is tectrum. I also have been checking out ecoflow. It is a generator that charges by solar and carport and ac.

 

[bagabum]

  found a power box that comes with included cables 100 W solar panel safety stuff to stop surges and protect battery and output rate. It is on amz and it is from a company called tektrum and it is approx. $820.00.  

DianaR, these " power boxes" are just too over priced for me, for years I have been making my own , I simple adhere an inverter to the side of the battery, adhere charge controller to another side and adhere an outlet panel to another side, with GOOP adhesive.  I do this with 12V35aH batteries that you can buy all day long for $69 on  Amazon, I end up with a 400 watt power supply for <$150.

 

[bagabum]

  found a power box that comes with included cables 100 W solar panel safety stuff to stop surges and protect battery and output rate. It is on amz and it is from a company called tektrum and it is approx. $820.00.  

DianaR, these " power boxes" are just too over priced for me, for years I have been making my own , I simple adhere an inverter to the side of the battery, adhere charge controller to another side and adhere an outlet panel to another side, with GOOP adhesive.  I do this with 12V35aH batteries that you can buy all day long for $69 on  Amazon, I end up with a 400 watt power supply for <$150. My issue with all of these little "generators" as they call them is that they are cute and full of features, but they are short on capacity. so I make my own.

 

[MrAlvinDude]

Hi Diana R,

is this the tektrum package/solution you have been looking at:
https://www.amazon.com/Tektrum-Portable-Powerpack-Station-Generator/dp/B07471C5FT

 

[Zenreaver]

A few things I want for the van are back-ordered for about a month. My air mattress also needs to be sent in for warranty, which they say takes up to 4 weeks. That changes everything. I had hoped to be on the road by the end of the week, but that just isn't going to happen.

That changes my time-frame, and would allow me to buy things during black Friday/cyber Monday. I researched past deals on various products I am planning to get. The savings "should" allow me to get Lithium, and still stay within my budget. I guess I'm sticking around a bit longer.

 

[DiANA R]

DianaR, these " power boxes" are just too over priced for me, for years I have been making my own , I simple adhere an inverter to the side of the battery, adhere charge controller to another side and adhere an outlet panel to another side, with GOOP adhesive.  I do this with 12V35aH batteries that you can buy all day long for $69 on  Amazon, I end up with a 400 watt power supply for <$150Wow

Wow! That is amazing. So you actually adhere the charge contrll, inverter and the outlet to a battery? with GOOP? How long does a setup like that last? What solar panels do you have? I have a powerful 500wtt electric engine in my electric bike. I have been told that it would take a 600wtt setup to charge it. Is that possible to do that with your setup? Would I just need to double what you have? How do you charge it? Can you use the carport to charge it? Is it protected with safeguards? I guess that is why the charge controller and inverter take care of that?
I don't know if I am capable to take this on by myself really unless you spelled out exactly what I would need to know. But I sure like the savings on the money side of a project like this!

 

[MrAlvinDude]

I have a powerful 500wtt electric engine in my electric bike. I have been told that it would take a 600wtt setup to charge it.

Hi Diana R,
Well there are two things you need to think about when charging an electric bike, from another battery.

The one thing is the total amount of energy stored in each battery.
The other thing is how much energy is moved at any one time, like moved per hour.


To start in reverse order. 
Lets look at how much energy is moved every hour of charging?

On the charger for the electric bike it will typically say what kind of voltage it provides, and how many amp (ampere) it provides.
Many regular electric bike chargers will say 42V (Volt) and 2A (Amp - ampere) - this equates to 84W (Watt) being transferred per hour.  (as 42 x 2 = 84)

If you are using an inverter to power the bike charger, then the inverter needs to have a rating of about 100W or more. 

But your bike-charger might say other numbers.
Could be 42V and 4 amp. Or could be 54V and either 2A or 4A.
Either way, the largest numbers would then be 54 x 4 = 216 - so the inverter needs to be about 300W or more.


Did that make sense to you?

Like pouring water from one pitcher, to another pitcher. The pouring does not happen in an instant, it takes a little time.
Likewise, the transfer of energy will take some time, and the speed with which the energy transfer happens, can be expressed in a number of watt (per time unit).


Then, how much energy is needed in the solar generator battery, in order to fill up the electric bike battery?

The amount of energy stored in an e-bike battery, is often numbered as Ah or Watt.


If it is known as Ah (typically 8-16 Ah) then one also needs to know the nominal volt of the battery. Like is it a 24V, 36V or 48V  e-bike battery, in order to figure out how many Watt is stored in the e-bike battery.

So a 36V 13Ah e-bike battery can store 36 x 13 = 468 watt.
And thus the solar generator battery  needs to have at least 468W available.

For a battery bank, one typically know how many Ah (amp hours) is store in the battery. Could be 36Ah or 50Ah or 100Ah pr 125Ah. All depending on the size of the battery.

To find how many watt is stored in such a battery, you again take the  12 Volt and multiply with the Ah.

An example is 12V and 36Ah is 12 x 36 =  432 watt.  HOWEVER, for lead acid batteries, one should never use up more than 50% of the capacity of the battery.

An other example, a 12V,  100Ah battery  stores 12 x 100 = 1200 watt, so 600W is available to be transferred (as 50% of 1200 is 600)


So this is about the battery sizes, if the transfer happens at night, when there is no power available from, the sun.



If you however were to charge the e-bike, while the sun is out, then the energy does not first need to be stored in the solar-generator-battery,  but it could go directly into the e-bike battery.

So if you e-bike battery is  36V and 13Ah (= 468W),
and your solar panel is 100W then the ideal math would be,
that your e-bike can be charged in 468 / 100 = 4.7 hours.

However, a 100W solar panel will hardly ever give the full 100W.  On a good day it is more likely to give about 80W

For getting 80W from the solar panel, the more realistic math would be 468W needed in the e-bike battery, with 80W an hour from the solar panel, so it will take 468 / 80 = 5.85 hours. 
Or in other words, about 6 hours. On a very good sunny day, with a 100W solar panel.

But let us not forget the limits of the e-bike charger!


If you then have 2 panels, so 2x 100W panels, then you can charge faster.
However, we still need to remember the limits of e-bike charger. If the e-bike charger was a 42V, 2A charger (84W) then there is a limit of 84W to be able to go directly into the e-bike battery.

So with 2x 100W panels, about 84W would then be able to go directly to the e-bike battery, and the rest of the energy from the solar panels would go into the solar-generator-battery.
So with two panels (or 200W of panels), it is possible to put some charge into both batteries - at the same time.


What numbers can you see on your e-bike charger?
42V and 2A or...?

Do you know the size of your e-bike battery?
like 36V,  13A?
or 48V, 15A?
or.... ?

 

[Zythophile]

That changes my time-frame, and would allow me to buy things during black Friday/cyber Monday.

If I were you, as far as all the gear you're looking to order online, find it all now, bookmark every page, and then in a text file or on paper, list everything out with the current prices. When the Black Friday sales hit, go look at all your bookmarked pages again, and compare the pricing. Some retailers apparently will, over the weeks ahead of Black Friday, inch their pricing up a bit at a time, and then the "sale" price isn't really much of a difference, if at all, over what the price was a few weeks before. Caveat emptor and all that!

 

[Zenreaver]

Thanks.. I've been doing that for awhile now. I do my best to never pay full retail!