Roundabouts?

[Vagabound]

Funny, the things that occur to a person early on a Sunday morning. So this is part musing and part questioning. 

As I've mentioned before, for the last several years I've been out of the country. Just got back in late October. People talk about culture shock, but there's also reverse culture shock when you come back to your own culture after so long. Watching CNN and reading Google News in the interim doesn't prevent it. Some of those things are just mildly interesting (5-year-olds with smartphones) and some are actually shocking (the Ethiopian earlobe phenomenon and $8-10 combos in fast food joints).

Not sure where this one falls on the scale, but it is something I've noticed a lot recently. Growing up in the States, I don't think I ever saw one roundabout on a road anywhere. In my early twenties, I went overseas with the military and encountered my first one. I thought it was kind of cool, a bit confusing, a real headache for insurance companies, and a real boon for the auto body industry.

Then, flash forward many years, I return at the end of last year, and every place I look in the western states I've been in, there are roundabouts. They're like bunny rabbits. Even Pahrump, NV is building roundabouts for God knows what reason. And of course, they decided they had to put them on one of the two main roads into town to entirely clog everything.

I can imagine that some unfortunately influential city planner finally took a trip abroad. While there, he stumbled over a roundabout and thought "What a great thing!" Coming back here, he started building them all over his city and then the copycat phenomenon took over.

I'm wondering if anybody knows what happened or has a better theory? And has the roundabout virus spread all over the U.S.?

Inquiring minds want to know ...

Tom

 

[SoulRaven]

We have a couple here in a town of around 25,000, thus not very much traffic. My theory is that the federal government offered some financial incentive, matching or such, and the towns decided to go for it. I can't even imagine the mess it would be in an evacuation.

 

[Queen]

I spent a substantial chunk of my childhood in Europe so the reverse culture shock thing I totally get. I never really caught up to my peer group and seem to live some sort of mishmash of a pre-TV group... and a the computer generation.

Regarding roundabouts; I think it's based on a couple of things. One is the massive increase in vehicles in the states since our infrastructure was built, they allow for more/better traffic flow for larger numbers of vehicles (if people understand how to use them). And two, after initial install, they cost a lot less to maintain than traffic lights.

 

[speedhighway46]

They slow down traffic and are cheaper to maintain than intersections with traffic lights. They are a pain in the ass.

Just my opinion . . .

 

[OutdoorFT]

We have a few in the city. Some people cant read signs.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

IMO it is a fad.  Some of our betters are enamored with anything Europe.  I think that in 20 or 30 years a lot of them will be removed.  They have been springing up in Minnesota too.  Some help traffic flow, some create havoc.  One near me on a US highway is designed such that a 50 ft tractor trailer cannot navigate it without damaging something.

My biggest b!tch with them is we (in Minnesota) have had no official explanation on their use.  Be interesting to see if accidents have gone up or down in the intersections they have been placed.  One good thing is that any accidents are going to be low speed because of the tight radius.

 -- Spiff

 

[VanKitten]

Roundabouts have been a permanent part of traffic patterns in New England since the beginning.

Everyone (local) understands them, knows the rules, and traffic flows quickly and easily. Only when an "outlander" shows up is there trouble. The newbie usually ends up full stop at the yield sign with a baffled look and horns blaring behind.

Where ever I have seen the implemented in new areas (Grand Junction) the designer didn't quite get it right (only one lane around) and hence trouble. Plus, everyone is a newbie...so it doesn't work as well. And dangerous for someone like me that understands the process very well....dangerous because the newbie cannot be trusted to behave in a well understood manner.

But...rotaries or roundabouts make traffic flow much more smoothly that using lights when everyone knows the rules.

 

[Queen]

 My biggest b!tch with them is we (in Minnesota) have had no official explanation on their use.  

Agree with this, I don't mind them because I know how to use them.  They put up a new one here in my small city with nothing more that the sign that indicates to keep right.  I see older people stopped dead in their tracks and then making left turns, they just can't wrap their head around them.

 

[MrNoodly]

I'm a fan of roundabouts. They sure beat having to stop when no one is coming.

 

[JannaB]

Just startling when you've never been in one.

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

Growing up in New England, i've been accustomed to them from day one, we call them a rotary. In fact, when they replace an odd shaped intersection, such as a 5 way with a rotary it usually greatly improves the traffic flow. There's always a few idiots who can't grasp the concept and New Englander's aren't subtle in letting these drivers know it, they''ll be barraged with horns and passed on all sides.

 

[Putts]

They retrofitted one up near the college here at a very busy intersection. Once people got in the groove, it worked just great.

One the other hand, Bozeman is growing like a weed and there are lots of new developments around the edge of town. City planners are predicting what intersections will be busy 5 years from now. So sometime when driving through these as yet un-housed areas you get a rotary in the middle of nowhere. Just plain weird on those occasions.

Europeans aren't dumb, they just been living closer to each other for longer than us and needed them sooner than we did.

They work and work well, we're just not used to them yet.

 

[tx2sturgis]

They really suck for those of us who drive semis that are 75 feet long, end to end...we take up BOTH lanes as we proceed thru the traffic circle.

Add in the possible future of self-driving vehicles and the problem will get a LOT worse for our descendants.

How many of ya'll have encountered diverging diamond interchanges? There are some variations on the theme, but you will see them out west here in several larger cities..and in rural areas too....usually its a major road intersecting with a limited access freeway....and the traffic pattern flows traffic on the opposite side of the road while under or over the freeway.

The problem is that IF the traffic signal lights fail, unlike standard intersections, now you can end up with a whole lot of confused drivers, and some of the intersections have sharp transitions, which again, make it dicey for a long, large vehicle, and the cars beside us that are entrapped between us and the concrete barriers as we navigate the 'dogleg' sections.

Yeah....computer aided, self driving cars and trucks, my ass! Chaos will surely prevail.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

But...rotaries or roundabouts make traffic flow much more smoothly that using lights when everyone knows the rules.

I disagree.  Maybe on intersections with moderate traffic and approximately equal cross traffic.  The intersection I alluded to is impossible to cross during rush hour (especially Fridays).  The bumper to bumper traffic North means cross traffic waits can be up to 20 minutes.  At least with a traffic light I know I will get a turn every few minutes.

 -- Spiff

 

[GotSmart]

Missouri is the capital of crazy road fads,  We had the first Diverging Diamond, where the right side of the road is the wrong side, and the left is over there. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diverging_diamond_interchange

Then they built a crazy 8 roundabout (dogbone) to make eveyone happy on both sides of the freeway ~~~ Nobody has to stop!   :dodgy:

http://www.abc17news.com/news/double-roundabout-at-rangeline-and-i-70-now-open/80523375

Evey time I want to drive NASCAR, ~~~ Just down the road.   :s

 

[VanKitten]

Spaceman..

Oh no. For very large volume traffic on city streets you would be hard to beat Cambridge and Boston, Massachusetts in Friday rush hour! Yet, those major arteries are one rotary connected to each other in series. Everything move very well.

 

[Almost There]

Sedona has them and they cause nothing but trouble at rush hour. The rest of the day they work well since they allow light to moderate traffic to flow through without stopping as long as every one understands the rules.

The worst version of 'traffic flow control' that I've seen is New Jersey. They're called jug handles by the locals. I have no idea what the official  name is..  

To make a left turn at specific intersections you have to be in the right hand lane. You exit right on to the secondary road, turn left, wait for that light to turn and then proceed through the intersection to go where you would have just made a left hand turn.

It wouldn't be bad if *every* turn was made this way, but it's not, it's only some intersections. This means that unless you are thoroughly familiar with the area you can absolutely count on being in the wrong lane - ALL the time.

Can you tell that I hated the damned things....

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

VanKitten,

Like I said, we have been given no instruction on how these things work.  So how does one get East to West on a roundabout when the traffic South to North in two lanes is bumper to bumper?

 -- Spiff

 

[cyndi]

I live in a 1 cow town in central MA. They're putting in 2 of them within a half mile of each other because people getting on and off the hiway can't figure out how to stop, yield or merge. Pretty sure they won't be able to figure out the rotary either.

 

[Weight]

Invented in New Jersey, they were called traffic circles. Mostly named by location, such as Red Lion Circle, Airport Circle, and others. Mostly were used where more than 2 roads would intersect. They worked well enough for years, but heavier traffic became a problem. Most were eliminated. With varying degrees of success. Some intersections were much worse after the circle was replaced. See Airport Circle in Atlantic County.