Ram Promaster layout critique/advice?

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vandreamSF

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Hello VanDweller Community!

For the past couple months I have been researching van-living.
I'm in my late 20's, looking to move from a small town in south-eastern Pennsylvania to the San Francisco bay area.
I have a bachelor's degree from a state university, but in the liberal arts. That mistake combined with graduating while the economy was still recovering from the recession meant underemployment.
I've been in a miserable living situation, struggling with depression, and unable to save money since, although I have paid off my considerable student loans.
The retail chain I have been working for for the past several years has stores in the bay area, so I could transfer and keep my full-time position. 
While my salary would not be enough to rent an apartment, if I can live out of a van and avoid paying rent and utilities I will be able to pay off the van and save money while living in the area I've always dreamed of AND having a more private accommodation than in a share-house. I plan to use a gym membership for bathroom access, and either eat most of my meals outside or cook simple meals in my van.

I decided to work with the Ram Promaster 159" wheel-base, high roof chassis because it has a gasoline engine rather than diesel, is easier to have repaired, and easier to drive than the Sprinter.
I plan to stealth camp in urban areas. The 159" standard should be able to squeeze under the "oversized vehicle" parking ordinances, while still giving me ample space.

Some must-haves:

  • I really don't want to rely on propane. I'd like to cover my roof with as many solar panels as possible (I've been looking at these) and hook them up to this Kodiak generator.
  • Two MAXXFAN Deluxes so I can have one pulling air in and one pushing air out.
  • LED light tape with different colors and dimming options.
  • A Dometic refrigerator.
  • An efficient microwave.
  • Enough solar power left over to charge a smartphone and laptop.
  • A solid, insulated bulkhead separating the cab from the living space.
  • A door in the bulkhead that can only be opened from the living space (ideally it would be practically invisible from the cab).
  • Separate keys for the ignition/cab doors and the bulkhead door/rear doors.
  • A comfortable, reclining high-backed executive office chair that can swivel, on tracks so it can be moved while staying secure when driving.
  • A custom set of shelves that can be pulled away from the wall without upsetting anything on them to double as a desk.
  • An adjustable bed platform that can fit a full-size, 6-8" thick futon as either a bed or a sofa.
  • Space in the back or under the bed to store a road/city bicycle without removing the wheels or needing a folding bicycle.
Some would-be-nice-to-haves:

  • Enough solar power to use a portable induction cooktop and/or crockpot.
  • Enough solar power for exterior flood lights and/or security cameras (extremely unlikely and un-stealthy).
  • A way to make my own coffee (I'm a caffeine-junkie).
  • A skylight.
  • Enough room under the bed to store a 6' stepladder (for accessing the solar panels if I need to).
  • Modified rear doors (something like the bottom rear hatch on the Honda Element) for loading a bicycle sideways into a storage area under the bed without exposing the living space.
I tried downloading SketchUp, but the learning curve is frustrating. The Sportsmobile Studio is excellent, but I want a lot of custom options that are not available.
I ended up using the Sportsmobile template and Adobe Photoshop to crudely map out a potential layout that would include most of the features I want.
I was hoping experienced vandwellers/builders here would be willing to critique my build and offer advice. I'm aware that right now I'm still full of starry-eyed idealism, so you don't need to pull any punches!

My layout design is here.

Thanks in advance for reading my wall of text and any input you give!
 
vandreamSF said:
Hello VanDweller Community!

wave.gif


Good on ya' for taking care of the loans.

For the past couple months I have been researching van-living.

Looking good so far.

I really don't want to rely on propane. I'd like to cover my roof with as many solar panels as possible

Okay.

(I've been looking at these))

That's what I got.


You seem like a smart guy/gal, you might be able to put together a much better electronics system for less and make it work better specifically for your needs if you did the work on your own.

I don't know about that particular one, and someone here with more experience might chime in.

Two MAXXFAN Deluxes so I can have one pulling air in and one pushing air out.

As long as you got one on top blowing air out all you need are open windows for incoming air. You'll save roof space for more solar.

Space in the back or under the bed to store a road/city bicycle without removing the wheels or needing a folding bicycle.

I reckon you'll always have to take off the front wheel and the forks make an ideal mounting fixture.

Enough solar power to use a portable induction cooktop and/or crockpot.
Enough solar power for exterior flood lights and/or security cameras (extremely unlikely and un-stealthy).
A way to make my own coffee (I'm a caffeine-junkie).
A skylight.

Wait...whut?  Again, keep that roof space for solar, and have a camping matt you can take outside to look at the stars.

I tried downloading SketchUp, but the learning curve is frustrating.

Your drawing is good.  What matters is when jig saw meets plywood. Make sure there's lots of tape measure and pencil sharpening beforehand.

Sound like you're going to have fun. Post up if you build one out...every three pictures you post will get you a golden answer on something or other I've found.

wave.gif
 
I'm building out my promaster now and basically have the same design but instead of the desk and chair I'm doing storage closets for cloths. You will only have room for 300 watts of solar with two fans. Even less with a skylight. I don't think the skylight will be needed with urban living (can't see many stars)

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 
> I have a bachelor's degree from a state university, but in the liberal arts.

A liberal arts degree is a traditional education. It is where humans learn to read, write, and think critically. Employment-directed higher education may result in more income sooner but it is (as liberal arts profs sometimes say in private and perhaps ungenerously) glorified vo-tech. Tocqueville put it this way:

As one digs deeper into the national character of the Americans, one sees that they have sought the value of everything in this world only in the answer to this single question: how much money will it bring in?

/rant off


> i've been in a miserable living situation, struggling with depression, and unable to save money since, although I have paid off my considerable student loans.

If you haven't already, I encourage you to talk to your doctor about depression. I struggled/selfdestructed/raged for 40 years before admitting to a doctor what was going on with me. Counseling and meds have changed my life from recurrent despair and constant anxiety to contentment with a light sprinkling of joy (w00t!). Things are so much better. I am so much better.


> The retail chain I have been working for for the past several years has stores in the bay area, so I could transfer and keep my full-time position. 

Awesome. And the move could be a perfect time for the transition to vandwelling.


> ... if I can live out of a van and avoid paying rent and utilities I will be able to pay off the van and save money while living in the area I've always dreamed of

Once people have that realization it's hard to hold them back! :)


> I decided to work with the Ram Promaster 159" wheel-base, high roof chassis because it has a gasoline engine rather than diesel,
> is easier to have repaired, and easier to drive than the Sprinter.

There is a diesel option in the PM, but the gasser is much more popular.

I haven't driven a Sprinter but I hear the driving dynamics were quite good. I chose PM over Sprinter due to (much) lower total cost of ownership, straighter cargo area, etc.


> I plan to stealth camp in urban areas. The 159" standard should be able to squeeze under the "oversized vehicle" parking ordinances, while still giving me ample space.

The 159 is less than 20' long, and will slightly hang over a standard space if you park carefully. If you back it in to a spot with a curb (like full-size pickups do) it fits easily.


> I'd like to cover my roof with as many solar panels as possible

Going all-electric will likely require a serious solar: 3x 60- or 72-cell panels sideways, as seen in this thread on the PM forum. I can't link to the actual post for some reason.

That guy runs all-electric:



As you can see, no room for skylights, extra roof vents, dancing platforms, kayaks, etc.


> An efficient microwave

I suspect there is no such beast. It is common for something like a 700W cooking power mw to actually pull 1000w from the inverter.


> A solid, insulated bulkhead separating the cab from the living space.

The OEM bulkhead could be cut out, I guess. Most people put blackout curtains across that area instead. Easier, lighter, cheaper.

Same with the modified rear door item, blackout curtains to the rescue. then you can open the OEM doors. Simple is good.



> A comfortable, reclining high-backed executive office chair that can swivel, on tracks so it can be moved while staying secure when driving.

A swivel base for the passenger seat might fill this need.



> Space in the back or under the bed to store a road/city bicycle without removing the wheels or needing a folding bicycle.

Underneath the bed platform is most common.


> Enough solar power to use a portable induction cooktop and/or crockpot.

The guy above does that.


> A way to make my own coffee (I'm a caffeine-junkie).

The guy above uses an electric drip IIRC.


> A skylight.

Contraindicated by the solar power requirement


Let us know how your plans develop!
 
Putts said:
As long as you got one on top blowing air out all you need are open windows for incoming air. You'll save roof space for more solar.

Wait...whut?  Again, keep that roof space for solar, and have a camping matt you can take outside to look at the stars.

coathanger said:
You will only have room for 300 watts of solar with two fans. Even less with a skylight. I don't think the skylight will be needed with urban living (can't see many stars)

frater secessus said:
> I'd like to cover my roof with as many solar panels as possible

Going all-electric will likely require a serious solar:  3x 60- or 72-cell panels sideways, as seen in this thread on the PM forum.  I can't link to the actual post for some reason.

That guy runs all-electric:



As you can see, no room for skylights, extra roof vents, dancing platforms, kayaks, etc.

> Enough solar power to use a portable induction cooktop and/or crockpot.

The guy above does that.

> A way to make my own coffee (I'm a caffeine-junkie).

The guy above uses an electric drip IIRC.

> A skylight.

Contraindicated by the solar power requirement

It's definitely been eye-opening to see how many solar panels others are able to fit on their vans. I didn't realize that since the van tapers near the roof, there is less roof real estate than floor real estate. Someone on another forum suggested the Grape 180W solar panels, which are 58.4” x 26.2”.
The skylight is easy to scrap, but I'm very worried about ventilation. I don't handle hot weather well, which is why having two roof vents is important to me. But since I'll need a good amount of electricity to survive, I suppose I have to be willing to sacrifice at least one.

I've also been considering scrapping the idea of having a separate desk. 
If I have a transforming bed/sofa, I can sit there and have some sort of transforming desk or table to work on, and a wall-mounted LCD screen.


Putts said:
You seem like a smart guy/gal, you might be able to put together a much better electronics system for less and make it work better specifically for your needs if you did the work on your own.

AntiGroundhogDay said:
Great review of the Kodiak:


I love this channel! This video is where I learned about the Kodiak generator and started to think it might work for me.
I've also watched all the videos on this channel about solar systems and how to wire them up, but a lot of the electrical jargon escapes me, and the last thing I want to do is start a fire or overload my battery. 
A plug-and-play generator makes things SO much easier for a casual hobbyist.

Thank you to everyone for the advice and encouragement!  :D
 
and Goal Zero Lithium 1000 Costco special review from same channel:



passed 1200 watt load test

However, he says, "the Kodiak is still better in my opinion. I will be posting a comparison of the two soon."
 
vandreamSF said:
The skylight is easy to scrap, but I'm very worried about ventilation. I don't handle hot weather well, which is why having two roof vents is important to me. But since I'll need a good amount of electricity to survive, I suppose I have to be willing to sacrifice at least one.

Some folks have put an exhaust duct on the rear door, which allows air to be pulled in the back and out the front vent.  

[img=200x150]https://s19.postimg.org/edrq34i37/P1080768.jpg[/img]

I'm probably going to put in a white one on my back door at some point.  I've seen pics of white ones and they look factory over the rear window.
 
coathanger said:
You will only have room for 300 watts of solar with two fans. Even less with a skylight. I don't think the skylight will be needed with urban living (can't see many stars)

~500W of efficient panel fits on the 159" (like the OP's) with a second fan at the rear.  ~800W with no second fan. 

My panels are older and less efficient so I have 575W on my single fan PM.  There is some roof space left over.
 
greetings,
toss in my info on fan/vent placement on PM. 
Our PM build is at the conversion shop for the next few weeks. I went with 300w of solar on roof and a G & C Systems vent imported from Europe (~less than the price of a fantastic or Max fan). Different tech on how they vent. These can be located under the typical solar panel build if on a rack or similar as the vent opens from inside the van and the exterior housing remains constant/fixed. Here is an image from their site. I took the vent to my upfitter and they were all over the idea. Had never seen anything like it:

le-mans-v12.jpg


Here is the link to the manufacture's site _www.gnc-systems.com_ I picked up our unit from Hein at DIYvan.com nice fellow and crew to work with (we also picked up enough Thinsulate 600 to do the insulation) 

Thom
 
Like every van build it will come down to a compromise. The higher your electrical needs are the more solar you would need to squeeze up on the roof. I agree that you would only need one maxair fan up top and if you have a floor vent somewhere to let in fresh air you can keep the windows closed all the way for security and stealth.

If you can put enough solar up and have a large enough battery bank then using electric for cooking and coffee is totally doable. For me it wasn't. I only have one 315 watt panel up top and I don't even have an inverter to run any 110v appliances. I did go with propane for heat and cooking so that was my compromise. I originally wanted to go all electric but didn't have a practical way to do it.

I can't remember in the original post if you had a timeline to get all this done. How soon do you need to move and do you have the money and time to get it all built in time. From my own experience it took way longer and cost way more then I anticipated. If you have the luxury of a little time you could start out simple and then add the things you need later. Sometimes what you think you want doesn't turn about to be what you find out you needed later on.
 
Love what you have planned here and don't want to sound like Debbie Downer...but do bear in mind that living in the SF bay area is extremely expensive - beyond the cost of rent. Food prices are exorbitant (I was recently visiting from out of state and about fell over with the costs). Not only that, but fuel, entertainment and eating out are really high. Assuming you can find free/cheap urban camping (not so easy in SF), you will likely still spend a lot just to survive. If it was me, I would consider other areas!

That said, I wish you the very best of luck! I'll be following your build!
 
on the SF Area and C.O.Living
Waaay back in the 1980-81 period when i lived full time in a Hi-Cube chevy van i lived on very little (even though my income was well above local average, it was my choice to be house-less) mainly due to my choice of being a raw-foods guy. I had no need for refrigeration, or even much cooking...just simple ~100 to ~110 degree heating of foods. And of course there was no rent while i parked in public areas near other similar-look rigs.

: ) End of ramble/tangent
Thom
 
SF area is very nice with wonderful climate but keep in mind that you won't be the only one doing this. Research it thoroughly before you decide to move. 
I would suggest to drop the idea of going 100% electric unless you are willing to spend a lot of money on batteries, inverter and solar panels. Your solar capacity will be limited to how many solar panels you can place on the roof unless you can place additional panels near the van. Solar panels mounted in the fixed flat position will produce half the rated power on a sunny day. Add overcast and rainy days and you may not have enough power to run power hungry stove and/or heater. Things like computers, TV, LED lights, fans use very little power compared to a cooking stove.
A $19 Coleman single burner stove costs pennies to operate. It's relatively compact. Spare butane cylinders are "dirt cheap" at Sams Club and will last a long time. It can be operated indoors as well.
 
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