Pure Sine Wave vs Modified Sine Wave Inverters

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Ballenxj

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Does anybody have experience with both?
The reason I ask is because modified sine wave inverters are substantially less money than pure sine wave units.
Can you charge and run laptops and smart phones on modified, or is that a mistake?
How about small appliances?
Thanks for any insight into this.
 
Read Phred's Poop Sheet on Inverters. http://www.manmrk.net/tutorials/RV/phred/invert.htm

You may not need a pure sine wave. I am a fan of using multiple "dedicated" inverters rathen than the one single big one. But we run very little off of the inverter (lights, exhaust fan, LP range's electronics). I do want to put the TV/DVD player on an inverter as well. I don't want to crank up a generator just to watch a DVD.
 
Thank you for posting the link compassrose, but I keep getting an error code saying not found. :(
I'll try to google it.
 
Uh oh. Don't get Sternwake started again. :D He's gonna need to go surfing again just to blow off steam. Joke! :p
 
The poop sheets are good. I have used both but favor the pure sign when it comes to powering expensive items. I have run my $300 laptop on a modified but my wifes mega giga ultra overpriced I love you honey Ipad always goes on the pure.
 
After reading he Poop Sheets, I'm leaning towards Pure Sine Wave too. Maybe 300 watts for starters.
 
After my laptop hard drive crash in 2006, I wonder whether modified sine wave inverter use was the cause of some damage that led to the crash. I will never know, but be careful what you use for some electronics.
 
Thanks, yeah, the laptops, ipad, and smartphone are major concerns.
 
BUT, you will be better off if you can run them straight off of 12 volts. Not sure if you want to go that way but it takes energy to invert.
 
Sorry. I missed an "l" when I copied/pasted the link. Sometimes this laptop is a pain.
 
Please do not turn on an inverter just to power a USB output, which charges most all smartphones to my knowledge. I know the little adapter fits nicely in an inverter and it makes it feel like like a stick and brick home, but here is what is happening.

The little wall adapter provided whith your smartphone, is taking 115volts AC and converting it to 5 volts DC. The inverter is taking ~12volts DC inverting it to 115 AC, then the phone provided plug in USB adapter is converting it back to 5 volts DC. At 85% efficiency at best.

The Inverter might even have a USB output, so you do not need to use your cell phone provided transformer. This is a meaningless bell and whistle. DO not let this feature sway you to purchase one inverter over another.

It makes more sense to have a DC to DC converter which takes 12.xx volts DC and converts it to 5 volts DC. There is much less wasted energy in this. Significantly less.

I hate common ciggy plugs for 60+ watt loads, but the link below will have devices which plug into the common 12v/ Ciggy receptacle, and draw much much less than this and will charge a cell phone or an Ipad or other tablets at the full 2.1 amp rate. Some of them can do 3.1 amps. Some can do even more.
These have such small parasitic draws when they are not actually charging anything that they are almost ignorable. I think I have 2 turned on right now. I know I have a third one that is powered and powering nothing, but it only draws 0.015 amps.

The same cannot be said for an inverter. It is likely using a minimum of 0.4 amps just turned on and powering nothing. My 800 watt MSW inverter uses 0.9 amps just turned on powering nothing. My 400 watt PSW wagan is about 0.4 amps.
Scenario: Say you fall asleep with the inverter on to charge a smartphone. It takes about an hour to fully charge the phone, then for 7 more hours, the inverter, turned on powering nothing, consumes 4 times the battery power that the phone actually needed to reach full charge.

Please do not use an inverter to just recharge your smartphone. Yes it works, but it is extremely wasteful when one is living off of a 12v battery. The goal when living off a 12v battery, it to keep it at as high a state of charge as possible at all times, so why consume more of it than needed?

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...ive,245&rh=n:15684181,k:usb+car+adapter&ajr=0.

I can personally recommend this one, at least for android Phones, I bought one for my Sister who has an Iphone and she say it works perfect.
http://www.amazon.com/TopG-Smart-Ch...d=1403592272&sr=1-10&keywords=usb+car+adapter


Veteran Vandwellers don't let newbies use inverters to charge cell phones. Pass it around, steer them right, Please. I'm tired of repeating this to every person who signs up, and believes they need an inverter to recharge a cell phone, or a laptop for that matter.

For laptops, same thing, the laptop wants ~19 v DC. DC to DC converters exist to take 10.5 to 15.0 volts DC and convert it directly to 19.5vDC or whatever the laptop desires. Using an inverter works. It works fine, even an MSW inverter, but it will use at least 15% more, and likely a much higher percentage more battery power, to use an inverter to power the provided power brick/wall wart, than it will to use a DC to DC converter.

http://www.amazon.com/Spal-Magsafe-...1403592933&sr=1-6&keywords=laptop+car+adapter

http://www.amazon.com/Charger-Latit...ywords=dell+latitude+e5500+laptop+car+adapter

Just change the search to your specific laptop make and model, and it will likely be cheaper than the inverter.

An inverter is not the answer for everything, though it seems to be the Newbie Standard Answer for everything. If your not worried about using too much battery power or only using the inverter when driving somewhere, fine. But if you are worried about running the battery too low, but then use wasteful methods to recharge USB devices, or laptops, then you are basically shooting yourself in the foot. But then perhaps money is not an object for you either either. What is the first word which follows the www in the address bar?

About the MSW vs PSW, many of these wall warts or power bricks( power transformers) that come to recharge or to power certain devices, well they get warm. The might get warmer on MSW then PSW. That extra heat is your battery being wasted faster. That extra heat might, over time, cause the power supply to fail. There is a chance, albeit small, that a MSW inverter fries a power supply right off the bat. Definitely monitor the temperature of your power brick or wall wart when using a MSW inverter for the first few times, especially when plugging in a laptop with a dead battery. If it is hotter than you remember it ever feeling, or you smell hot plastic, then it does not like MSW. If so, Disconnect it or you might be purchasing another power supply, and then a PSW inverter, or better yet the car adapter.

No Need to monitor the transformer heat with PSW as the energy is as clean or perhaps even cleaner than what comes from the power grid.

Sure you can get a 30$ MSW inverter, perhaps cheaper, and you will have the meaningless comfort of using the manufacturer supplied power transformer. It will work. it Should work fine. It will work your battery over faster than DC to DC converter.

There are a few devices which absolutely require PSW. Most wall warts/ power bricks, these power transformers will work fine on MSW, but they might get hotter, and that heat is wasted battery power.
They might cause a 60 HZ buzzing in amplified speakers. They might cause radio noise, especially on AM radio. They might knock out some TV stations if you are using an Antenna.
The PSW inverter should be more friendly in these regards.
 
Google "Handy Bob solar"

All inverters have an automatic shut off if the dc input is too high. On most, it seems to be 15 volts. But you can find a few with 16 ~ 16.5 cut offs.

Under SOME circumstances - cold morning, high altitude, cloudless sky - the output from solar panels can exceed 15 volts. And your inverter stops working.

Bob refers to these 15 volt inverters as "trucker's inverters". He recommends finding inverters with the higher cut off if you have - or plan to add - solar panels.

Regards
John
 
I use 12VDC auto plug-in with USB cable to keep my smartphone charged when on the road - works great. I also have a couple 110VAC plug-ins with USB, but only use them in the S&B home. Tried using one in a motel room recently on a trip - the motel staff called me thinking I was using their unit and saying they'd come to pick it up - had to let them know it was MY charger! I immediately unplugged, since it seemed they had a problem with me using their juice to charge my phone. :huh:
I have a pocket-sized battery pack charger which will charge the phone several times before it needs recharged itself - I used it a lot during that trip.
At home I also use a USB cable hooked to my desktop PC to charge the phone, but it is slower than the 12VDC and 110VAC plug-ins.
I do have a 400Watt inverter with a built-in USB port, but haven't used it.
There are so many options to charge our phones, laptops, etc these days. :cool:
 
I have a bunch of this TomTom 12 volt adapter. One outlet for plugging in say your Garmin standalone GPS device, and 2 USB outlets (one for smartphone, another higher power for a tablet). Plus you can stack 2 of these together if need be.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005MIZYOW/ref=oh_details_o01_s02_i02?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I have many of this PowerGen USB adapter for charging a smartphone and tablet, works great.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0088U4YAG/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i04?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Also have this 25 feet (YES, 25 feet long!) USB charging cable so you can extend a long distance from a 12 volt power source to charge a smartphone, etc.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009LF16LM/ref=oh_details_o04_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I use this 12 volt adapter to power my Sony laptop, works great. Just find the right model for your particular laptop.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002VNMVEW/ref=oh_details_o08_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Whenever possible, use 12 volt power instead of turning on the inverter. Always try to choose a 12 volt powered device versus one that requires household electricity, even if that means a smaller device. For example, I can get by watching television on my smaller 7 inch 12 volt powered TV/DVD combo player versus using my larger 19" flatscreen TV that requires turning on an inverter.

About the only thing that absolutely requires turning on my inverter power is my Sony PS3 playstation and larger 19" flatscreen TV. But I haven't used those 2 items in awhile. I found I really don't play games hardly at all, except sometimes on my 5.5" large screen Samsung smartphone.
 
I have a chance to pick up a Goal Zero Extreme ui inverter new in the box.
Extreme 350
Problem being, after I looked up the specs on it, it turned out to be a modified sine wave as opposed to a true sine wave. For all the Hoo Ha they make about Goal Zero, I'm amazed.
I will probably pass unless I can get it really cheap.
 
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I wouldn't mess with modified square wave, it just isn't worth it to me on any level.
 
Thanks for the link Tucson, it encouraged me to do more research on this subject.
There seems to be some debate over whether or not a modified sine wave will make a person sick though.
I found this thread on another site,
Thread from Northern Wind & Arizona Sun
Quoted from post two in that article;
Well we all know MSW is not a clean sine wave, and that some inverters, both MSW AND Pure Sine are better quality than others. We also know that some items work very well on MSW, while others do not. That said, there is a place for MSW inverters. Generally their idle consumption is much lower than Pure Sine, and in certain cases that can be a big advantage.
Beyond that, I take great exception to the commentator making unfounded and unproven conspiracy-type statements, as if they were proven fact, that using MSW inverters will lead to health problems. Perhaps he should take his scope and monitor the hundreds of thousands of radiated RF watts projected from radio and TV transmitters and aimed into cities and towns all over the world before he starts worrying about the very tiny bit produced by an inverter or cell phone. And microwave "radiation"? Perhaps think about that the next time you meet a police car with it's radar aimed at your face. But hey, all that is old stuff, so there's no need to worry, we only get our shorts in knots over anything new. Beyond that, a pure sine inverter, depending on its design is just as capable of transmitting RF noise. And by the way, my MX-60 charge controller was infamous for transmitting RF, but I didn't wear a tin hat when I worked around it because the local TV tower washed it all away with it's 100,000 watts of "radiation".
 
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