propane tank safety.

[peacetara]

Hi.<br /><br />So I'm pretty new to propane tanks. I've been around the giant ones that are the size of cars, that sit outside people's houses, and the little green bottles.<br /><br />Anyways, I've been reading and the Mr. heater little buddy thing, says it's totally safe to use indoors... *BUT* you can not use the big propane bottles inside, in the owner's manual they say like 4 times, never ever ever bring the bulk propane bottles inside.&nbsp; Apparently they are fine with the little green bottles inside, and they are fine with the bulk propane bottles outside, with a hose coming inside.<br /><br />Anyways, I guess I thought I'd ask what the truth is.&nbsp; I figure there must be some reason they were so stuck on the bulk propane bottles never coming inside.<br /><br />The only thing that comes to mind for me, is the bigger bulk bottles, if they were to explode somehow, I would imagine everyone in and near the van/RV would be dead.<br /><br />Tho I would guess if a little green bottle exploded IN a van, maybe the people outside the van would survive, but chances are the people inside wouldn't.<br /><br />Of course, if you are remotely sane with either approach (green or bulk) the likelihood of a propane bottle exploding would be about as much as getting struck by lightning, I would guess.<br /><br />Anyways, sorry to be a worry wart, I just want to make sure I'm not missing something, which is very very possible.<br /><br />With Love,<br />Tara

 

[josephusminimus]

Hi.<br /><br />So I'm pretty new to propane tanks. I've been around the giant ones that are the size of cars, that sit outside people's houses, and the little green bottles.<br /><br />Anyways, I've been reading and the Mr. heater little buddy thing, says it's totally safe to use indoors... *BUT* you can not use the big propane bottles inside, in the owner's manual they say like 4 times, never ever ever bring the bulk propane bottles inside.&nbsp; Apparently they are fine with the little green bottles inside, and they are fine with the bulk propane bottles outside, with a hose coming inside.<br /><br />Anyways, I guess I thought I'd ask what the truth is.&nbsp; I figure there must be some reason they were so stuck on the bulk propane bottles never coming inside.<br /><br />The only thing that comes to mind for me, is the bigger bulk bottles, if they were to explode somehow, I would imagine everyone in and near the van/RV would be dead.<br /><br />Tho I would guess if a little green bottle exploded IN a van, maybe the people outside the van would survive, but chances are the people inside wouldn't.<br /><br />Of course, if you are remotely sane with either approach (green or bulk) the likelihood of a propane bottle exploding would be about as much as getting struck by lightning, I would guess.<br /><br />Anyways, sorry to be a worry wart, I just want to make sure I'm not missing something, which is very very possible.<br /><br />With Love,<br />Tara

<br /><br />We live in litiginous times and people manufacturing and distributing anything capable of injuring or killing [or seriously inconveniencing] a human being has to contain a list of caveatismal absolutely 'DON'T DO!' warnings.&nbsp; These warnings have to find the lowest common denominator of the human mind, warn against any use the item can be put to under the least likely circumstances that include common sense and prudent self-preservation.<br /><br />Yep, there's a remote possibility a propane bottle might leak at the connection where the regulator connects if person doesn't check for leaks.&nbsp; Yep, in a closed environment a propane heater might burn off all the oxy and assfixy-whatcallit the person who used it indoors without cracking a vent or window.<br /><br />Life's a dangerous place for a person to have to spend a lifetime.&nbsp; I've used propane bottles indoors, propane heaters and stoves indoors, and despite my best efforts, never have offed myself, nor anyone else.&nbsp; My RV propane compartment's situated in such a way a good argument might be made it resides inside the RV.&nbsp; As good an argument, anyway, as the contrary view that it's outside the RV.<br /><br />You want the truth.&nbsp; Propane is dangerous.&nbsp; It's under pressure, contained by a hand-twist valve and a series of hose connectors.&nbsp; A person using it needs to recognize it's dangerous and use a minimum of common sense whenever it's in the vicinity of sparks, flames, anything that might ignite escaping gas.<br /><br />Used with reasonable prudence and caution, it's probably still dangerous to one degree or another.&nbsp; Indoors that degree of danger is multiplied to one degree or another.<br /><br />

 

[SoulRaven]

The issue with any propane storage device is the connections, not often and pretty rare, but may leak at the connections... now add an open flame like stove or buddy heater and you can see why the scare... Bulk bottles (5lb/1gal.) is what I use and recommend, if there is a leak and fire you can shut off the propane at the bottle via the on off handle... So the best bet is to connect and check the connections by pouring water over the connections and looking for bubble's indicating a leak...

 

[peacetara]

@josephusminimus I agree, but usually there is some reason for the list of NO NO NO, and usually the reasons are valid to some degree, even if a small degree.<br /><br />It sounds like you and @soulraven have found the reason too.&nbsp; Leaks from the big propane bottles are probably more common than from the little green ones (and can leak a LOT more gas).<br /><br />So this makes a lot of sense. I agree, as long as you are sane, and check the fitting really well when first connecting, and then verify them regularly, then sounds like it's pretty safe.&nbsp; Just keep an eye out for leaks, and continue with life.<br /><br />@soulraven, I think you are right, those little ones like you have seem like the way to go, and then have 1 or 2 green ones just in case you run out somewhere.<br /><br />Anyone happen to know a good place to get such a bottle? I saw one at a camping store yesterday, but they wanted $80 for such a bottle.&nbsp; Looks like online they are $50+ dollars, and the 20lb are like $25.&nbsp; crazy.

 

[Rollin]

Yeah I&nbsp;wonder&nbsp;why the smaller tanks are so much more? I think what I'm going to do is get the 20lb tank, fill it, &nbsp;then go to a park and use it to fill up 20 of the small 1lb tanks. That would be&nbsp;economical&nbsp;and safe(or safer).<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Edit: If you use this method and are using the Mr. Heater you will&nbsp;need&nbsp;a filter. I got the adapter and filter off Amazon.

 

[VanLifeCrisis]

Weve used the even bigger bottles with the small mr buddy and a double burner heater that screws right into the sucker (i wouldnt ever use that one in a confined space like a van though). We never had a problem or leak or anyone dying indoors. I think if you vent and make sure no leaks you will be fine.

Im thinking of building a seperated little cabinet for my tank with a vent to the outside just as a precaution. Ive seen others with a similar set up before.


I wonder if refilling those little bottles could lead to wear and leaks?

 

[Coffee Tim]

Recently in the last two weeks I found the one gallon propane bottle at Cabela's in Rogers, Arkansas.&nbsp; It was priced at either $63.00 or $67.00.&nbsp; I don't remember which for sure.

 

[SoulRaven]

i got mine off E-Bay, the manufacturer sells them direct and you save money by cutting out the middle man... Search for 1 gal. propane or 5Lb propane... I think they were like $40.00 a piece..

 

[dragonflyinthesky]

Maybe I'm not following the conversation right. Why would you spend that much on a 1 gal tank when a 20 pound tank costs less?

 

[josephusminimus]

Maybe I'm not following the conversation right. Why would you spend that much on a 1 gal tank when a 20 pound tank costs less?

<br /><br />Good question I've been wondering about myself.&nbsp; Glad you asked it.&nbsp; Pondering as I read through the thread the only answer I could come up with is fear disguised as prudence.

 

[SoulRaven]

Simply it is size and weight... I use about 1 gal. of propane a month cooking in the Spring-Fall and a little more for heat in the winter months... My bottles easily go into and come out of my van and store under my bed out of the way... I have two bottle's, one is a back up and is always full...

 

[twokniveskatie]

Size matters. I'm struggling with finding space for a little tank, which I can get locally for about $45-$50. I will save that in propane costs compared to the green bottles in no time. No way I can put a 20 # tank in the van and still keep the dog.

 

[Coffee Tim]

Just smaller and easier to store in a cramped area. The downside is when you use more in heating season and have to refill more often.&nbsp; A second backup bottle is a good thing.&nbsp;

 

[josephusminimus]

Yeah I&nbsp;wonder&nbsp;why the smaller tanks are so much more? I think what I'm going to do is get the 20lb tank, fill it, &nbsp;then go to a park and use it to fill up 20 of the small 1lb tanks. That would be&nbsp;economical&nbsp;and safe(or safer).<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Edit: If you use this method and are using the Mr. Heater you will&nbsp;need&nbsp;a filter. I got the adapter and filter off Amazon.

<br /><br />I'd bet there's a goodly supply of those green 1# empties lying around in garages with people hating to throw them away because they ought to be good for something.&nbsp; A person might put an ad on the local Yahoo FreeCycle group expressing a desire for empties and get offers aplenty.

 

[She]

Very new to this propane thing. If I get a 5 gal container would the propane stations&nbsp;give you a problem or is it size doesn't matter? I mostly see 20 gal containers. Or do you need to fill it up yourself. I also thought they are&nbsp;pre filled&nbsp;and you just switch containers.<br /><br />Heres a auction I saw by the way on<a href="http://www.ebay.com/itm/TWO-EMPTY-P...pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&amp;hash=item416c5e0340">&nbsp; ebay</a>.<span style="color: #ff0000;"><span style="color: #ff0000;"> <span style="color: #000000;">Need to be texas though.</span></span></span>

 

[josephusminimus]

Very new to this propane thing. If I get a 5 gal container would the propane stations&nbsp;give you a problem or is it size doesn't matter? I mostly see 20 gal containers. Or do you need to fill it up yourself. I also thought they are&nbsp;pre filled&nbsp;and you just switch containers.<br /><br />Heres a auction I saw by the way on<a href="http://www.ebay.com/itm/TWO-EMPTY-P...pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&amp;hash=item416c5e0340">&nbsp; ebay</a>.<span style="color: #ff0000;"><span style="color: #ff0000;"> <span style="color: #000000;">Need to be texas though.</span></span></span>

<br /><br />The Ebay bottles appear to be reasonably priced.&nbsp; Worth the price if a person lives near Katy and needs a couple of them.&nbsp; The one they mentioned had rust might require some sanding and re-painting.<br /><br />They appear to have the post-2000 fittings and there'd be no problem getting them refilled almost anywhere.<br /><br />My impression of what's been said above regarding 'green' bottles is that it's a means of refilling the throwaways sold for stoves, lanterns and propane torches.&nbsp; As far as I know all the larger bottles are intended to be refilled at the local propane supplier, stores, whatever.&nbsp; <br /><br />Stoves and appliances designed for use with the green bottles require an adapter and hose to connect them to the larger bottles.&nbsp; The video above is a way of avoiding the extra hoses, refill the green bottles and cut the cost of buying new ones after a few hours use.

 

[Seraphim]

Since the problem of location was brought up:

Our camper van had a five gallon tank mounted along the frame under the double passenger side doors. Never had a problem with it. Also had an electronic regulator for safety- it would check the cabin for indications of propane Nd shut off the electronic valve if it detected propane inside the unit.

 

[Guest]

Hi PeaceTara, I use the same bottle that Steve..SoulRaven uses. Frankly it is because I already had the bottle and used it as an easily moveable indoors bottle for a jewelers Oxy/propane torch setup for years as a bench jeweler.<br /><br />It really lends itself well to vandwelling. My friend Jon B. has used a 5 gallon bottle inside his van for years and I believe Bob W. uses one as well. Whatever works for one.<br /><br />Something to be very aware of is that if you live in an area of the country where it gets quite cold....and for some reason can't leave and go to more reasonable weather in the winter....BE AWARE that if a propane bottle is filled outside when it is cold, and it is topped off, when you put the bottle into a warm place, like a van, it will gas off the excess as it warms and expands and you have an exceedingly dangerous situation. Again...this is serious stuff...not to be done...<br /><br />In Alaska when I had to use a propane weed burner to warm my engine in the morning once the temp reached 50 below and colder, I would have to bring the 5 gallon bottle inside overnite to keep it warm enough to flow. When I had it filled I would have them fill it and then I would waste some to get the level down a ways before I would take it in the cabin.<br /><br />Steve's advice about checking for leaks is excellent and critical....I carry a small bottle of water with a little dish detergent in it and I spray it liberally on every joint when I work on the system. I occasionally remember to check it again as vibration in the vehicle can loosen fittings.<br /><br />If you are planning to set a system up, if you are a stranger to these things, get professional help. When I set my system up, I had a hose made up with all the right fittings on it. My hose leaves the bulk bottle and runs a couple of feet and there is a "T" fitting. From there I have one hose running to my single burner cooking unit and one runs about 4' to where I keep my Mr. Heater.&nbsp; The professionally made up hose and fitting cost me about $70 and I had it made at one of my local LPG dealers....any of them can do it. I know it is to code and I just have to do my part and I will be safe.<br /><br />I ALWAYS turn the tank off when it is not in use. ALWAYS! I have a CO detector down low and a smoke detector up high and really should have a propane gas detector and may get one before I hit the road again.<br /><br />I have many years experience building and living in vehicles and have been using propane for many years.....therefore I trust my own good sense and abilities. If you don't and are new to it, please get some help from someone who knows what they are doing. There are many places to get that including at the RTR. <br /><br />Not to be a fear monger, I will say that I have seen many accidents with propane causing explosions and fires, mostly in Mexico but many times in RVs in this country....one was in a brand new RV that had had a&nbsp; propane conversion kit recently installed and when they switched from running on gasoline to propane the rig caught fire and burned to the ground. This was&nbsp; in Denali National Park in Alaska.<br /><br />On the other hand millions of people around the world use LPG safely and if you use good common sense and do it right and safely, you should not have any problems....<br />Best,<br />Bri

 

[Barryusa]

They shouldn't. If they are filling your bottle, they are making money. Having them filled is cheaper than buying the ones you trade out.&nbsp;<br /><br />

 

[wandering mike]

To the OP, smaller 1 lb bottles of propane are more&nbsp;permissible&nbsp;in close quarters because the gas&nbsp;dissipates&nbsp;and cannot maintain the proper air/gas ratio in the vehicle that is necessary for an explosion; &nbsp;A pound of propane is less than a quart of propane. &nbsp;So mixing it with the air in a van or RV dilutes it beyond its explosion point quickly. &nbsp;With a 20 lb tank (a bit less than 5 gallons), the risk of achieving that proper mix of air and fuel in a confined space is greater and so the risk of explosion is greater. &nbsp;If you keep the bulk tank outside, the propane can more easily&nbsp;dissipate if there is a leak.<br /><br />I have used the Mr Buddy both with a 10 lb tank and connected to my RV 30 lb tank and both work fine. &nbsp;Leave some venting for the Mr. Buddy to get oxygen or it will turn itself off. &nbsp;I have also done the refilling of the little bottles from the 10 lb tank with the fitting. &nbsp;I freeze the empty bottle first and also use needle nose pliers to open the valve on the little bottle to help it fill. &nbsp;I make sure I weigh the bottles too, before and after filling, so that I am sure I don't have more than a net weight of 1 lb of propane in the bottle. &nbsp;I check for leaks too. &nbsp;The bottles seem to have a refill ability for three or four refills; at least for my comfort level. &nbsp;There are lots of videos and instructions out there. &nbsp;Make sure you know what the process is on all this stuff before you actually try it.