Planning Thread

[milge]

I'm in the planning phase of switching to van dwelling. I have a lot of questions I'll be posting in this thread. Here's my first question:

I like the layout of having a bed across the back of a van. Most van measurements I see at around 70 inches wide. I'm 5'8", so 68" tall. Are the measurements people are posting internal measurements? What type of internal width are people getting after installing insulation/paneling? If you are running a bed across the back, how long is your bed and how tall are you? I sleep on my stomach with one arm usually under my head. Would it be too tight? I'd like to use a twin-sized bed but they're 75" long so it would have to be cut down.

 

[SoulRaven]

If you use a pillow, it needs some extra room too.

If you have a window van and position your bed height so that your body is located at the bottom of the windows or just below them, this is usually the widest spot on the van width wise.

I have an extended length van and opted to put my futon sofa/bed on the back passenger side running lengthwise so I could put oversize items down the middle aisle if the need arose. As it turns out, I rarely pull the bed out unless I have company, and just sleep on it in sofa mode. This gives me a lot more floor space, without needing to put the bed up & down every day.

 

[milge]

I have a feeling I'll have to end up going lengthwise. If I do, an extended will almost be a requirement. I'd like to incorporate a small counter that includes a cooking burner and small sink. I think this could be done well with the bed running along the drivers side with the counter between the bed and the driver's seat. I'm currently eyeing up Ford E class vans since they seem to be the most prevalent, making finding parts easier. I'm shooting for a van with as few windows as possible for insulation purposes.

 

[WriterMs]

Welcome Milge!

I put my bed platform across the back of my van. I have to confess I have not measured it exactly but I believe it is about 68 inches (my only insulation at either end is a foil backed rigid foam I cut mainly to cover the windows (maybe 1 inch total). I am only 5'6" or 66" so I have very little "wiggle" room when stretched out.

At some point in the future when I remodel my van, I will put my bed lengthwise. My width is less than a twin, so I do not have all that much space to lay on the diagonal -- which is what many vandwellers do with a bed across the back. That being said, I did sleep just fine most every night but found sometimes I'd wake trying to stretch out and find my foot pressing the insulation board tightly.

I love my mattress -- a Signature Sleep cheap one from Amazon. It has two types of foam for a total of 6" (Bob and some others give those of us with such thick mattresses grief .. in fun). Since it is ALL foam, I simply took it out of its mattress cover and used an electric carving knife to trim it down to size. I put it back in the zippered mattress cover and folded the extra cover under. Then I use regular twin sheets and a very warm comforter. (I keep extra blankets for when I stay too long at high elevation.)

Everyone's experience will vary with how you sleep, but you asked for some first-hand feedback.

 

[milge]

Welcome Milge!

I put my bed platform across the back of my van. I have to confess I have not measured it exactly but I believe it is about 68 inches (my only insulation at either end is a foil backed rigid foam I cut mainly to cover the windows (maybe 1 inch total). I am only 5'6" or 66" so I have very little "wiggle" room when stretched out.

At some point in the future when I remodel my van, I will put my bed lengthwise. My width is less than a twin, so I do not have all that much space to lay on the diagonal -- which is what many vandwellers do with a bed across the back. That being said, I did sleep just fine most every night but found sometimes I'd wake trying to stretch out and find my foot pressing the insulation board tightly.

I love my mattress -- a Signature Sleep cheap one from Amazon. It has two types of foam for a total of 6" (Bob and some others give those of us with such thick mattresses grief .. in fun). Since it is ALL foam, I simply took it out of its mattress cover and used an electric carving knife to trim it down to size. I put it back in the zippered mattress cover and folded the extra cover under. Then I use regular twin sheets and a very warm comforter. (I keep extra blankets for when I stay too long at high elevation.)

Everyone's experience will vary with how you sleep, but you asked for some first-hand feedback.

Exactly the feedback I was looking for. I didn't even consider sleeping on the diagonal. I was hoping that by running the mattress across the back, I could fit everything in a normal sized (not extended) van. I definitely won't be skimping on a bed and will probably get a pillowtop mattress.

For more detail, I'm planning on the following:

bed
stove/sink counter
some kind of desktop, perhaps one that flips down off of a wall
200 watt solar system
20 lb propane tank
roof rack mounted PVC tube(s) for water
and the rest of normal stuff like storage, etc.

I'm pretty savvy with tools and have a bunch. But this will be the most intense game of tetris I've ever played.

 

[GotSmart]

I started out with a captains chair with a modified base in the passenger position..  Face front to drive, and back to sleep.

Now I have a hammock set up going from the front to the back in my shorty van.  My face will be under the Fantastic Fan, so I will have ventilation. 

The next unit will be longer and have a more conventional set up.  

How ever you do it, make sure you plan on easy access to the electrical box. :idea:

 

[milge]

Ok, next question:

While planning a layout, I've been looking at the side entrance as lost space. Is anyone utilizing this space in a novel way? And if you are using this space, is your side door locked down/welded shut? I'd imagine that side well would be a good place to drain water.

 

[GotSmart]

Ok, next question:

While planning a layout, I've been looking at the side entrance as lost space. Is anyone utilizing this space in a novel way? And if you are using this space, is your side door locked down/welded shut? I'd imagine that side well would be a good place to drain water.

Why would you want to drain water through that?  A side door is a necessary exit, and you do not want to drain any liquids in the immediate area of where you live.  Sanitation reasons being foremost. Rust being secondary. 

Many dwellers put up a curtain behind the front seats, and use the side door as the main entrance.  It is much easier.  

Look up how others have done things in other construction threads.

 

[milge]

Why would you want to drain water through that?  A side door is a necessary exit, and you do not want to drain any liquids in the immediate area of where you live.  Sanitation reasons being foremost. Rust being secondary. 

Many dwellers put up a curtain behind the front seats, and use the side door as the main entrance.  It is much easier.  

Look up how others have done things in other construction threads.

I've been going through all the construction threads. The only example I've seen so far is in the third pic from the right at the top of the forum page. It just seems like a significant amount of space that can be utilized better.

 

[B and C]

Some people store a 5 gallon water jug there and others have extended to floor out to cover the step well.  They then used the covered step well for storage.  Still others have extended a cabinet to just shy of the right side door leaving the right side door for entry/egress.  I have also seen where someone built a little cabinet an the back side door so it can be used inside with the door shut and outside with the door open.

A thorough read of: https://vanlivingforum.com/Forum-Conversions-and-Modifications should give you a lot to think about as to what would work for you.

Oh!  Welcome milge!

 

[GotSmart]

I've been going through all the construction threads. The only example I've seen so far is in the third pic from the right at the top of the forum page. It just seems like a significant amount of space that can be utilized better.

I store my folding chair and window covers there. 

Once you move in, there is no wasted space.  

If you make it to RTR, you will see. 

 

[milge]

I have one of these coleman single burner stoves:

http://r1.coleman.com/ProductImages/Full/2000004124_500.jpg

If I were to buy a sheet of stainless steel, cut a hole in the middle, and drop the burner in, would that work? If the sheet of stainless were sitting on a small wood cabinet, would the stainless get too hot and burn the wood?  I have a good local supplier of steel and would like to get two sheets: one to make a stove/sink combo and one for a backsplash.

 

[SoulRaven]

I have one of these coleman single burner stoves:

http://r1.coleman.com/ProductImages/Full/2000004124_500.jpg

If I were to buy a sheet of stainless steel, cut a hole in the middle, and drop the burner in, would that work? If the sheet of stainless were sitting on a small wood cabinet, would the stainless get too hot and burn the wood?  I have a good local supplier of steel and would like to get two sheets: one to make a stove/sink combo and one for a backsplash.

I really dislike those types of stoves, only one burner is not enough,  and they're too tippy.  I prefer the 2 burner stoves for both convenience and stability.

For sinks I use 2 dollar store dish pans, and dollar store trigger spray bottles for water delivery.

By keeping both your stove and sinks portable, they can be used either inside or outside without duplication.

 

[WriterMs]

Regarding the stove, I have a one-burner but it is the flat type like at this Amazon link:


Having one burner (or other type of stove) works just fine for me because I don't cook much beyond heating up soups and the like. I have to agree, those tall ones make me nervous.

I do so little real cooking that I have been considering going to a tiny alcohol stove.

On the build threads, you'll find some have even done detailed floorplans ..and modifications of those plans to compare. Besides the threads here, you may have noticed that Bob's blog part of this site has a separate menu item for Van builds and there are some good pics there.

Oh, and the latest of Bob's blog posts is about using propane in a van...and there is a video of the same info to watch on that post as well.

I like the tetris analogy!

 

[BigT]

For more detail, I'm planning on the following:

bed
stove/sink counter
some kind of desktop, perhaps one that flips down off of a wall
200 watt solar system
20 lb propane tank
roof rack mounted PVC tube(s) for water
and the rest of normal stuff like storage, etc.

A table that flips down off a wall, you say?
200 Watts of solar, you say?
A roof-mounted tube for water, you say? 

These three items got my attention.    Sounds a lot like what I've got in my TC.  

(Ignore the shower head, it's not there anymore). 



Not sure if you have a window cut-out on your wall, but here's one option for making the most of it.  



Even if you don't have that recessed space, a table won't take up a lot of room on a wall. 



My Transit Connect isn't as wide as a full-sized van, so I ran my bed lengthwise.  Then again, I'm 6'4" so sideways wouldn't be an option, even in a moving truck.  

 

[milge]

I really dislike those types of stoves, only one burner is not enough,  and they're too tippy.  I prefer the 2 burner stoves for both convenience and stability.

For sinks I use 2 dollar store dish pans, and dollar store trigger spray bottles for water delivery.

By keeping both your stove and sinks portable, they can be used either inside or outside without duplication.

I think if you recessed the burner in a hole, it wouldn't really tip. And the hole could double as a spot for a dish pan sink in limited space.

Regarding the stove, I have a one-burner but it is the flat type like at this Amazon link:


Having one burner (or other type of stove) works just fine for me because I don't cook much beyond heating up soups and the like. I have to agree, those tall ones make me nervous.

I do so little real cooking that I have been considering going to a tiny alcohol stove.

On the build threads, you'll find some have even done detailed floorplans ..and modifications of those plans to compare.  Besides the threads here, you may have noticed that Bob's blog part of this site has a separate menu item for Van builds and there are some good pics there.

Oh, and the latest of Bob's blog posts is about using propane in a van...and there is a video of the same info to watch on that post as well.

I like the tetris analogy!

I saw the 3 part youtube video. I really like the olympic wave 3 but may just use my burner for heat.

A table that flips down off a wall, you say?
200 Watts of solar, you say?
A roof-mounted tube for water, you say? 

These three items got my attention.    Sounds a lot like what I've got in my TC.  

(Ignore the shower head, it's not there anymore). 

Not sure if you have a window cut-out on your wall, but here's one option for making the most of it.  

Even if you don't have that recessed space, a table won't take up a lot of room on a wall. 

My Transit Connect isn't as wide as a full-sized van, so I ran my bed lengthwise.  Then again, I'm 6'4" so sideways wouldn't be an option, even in a moving truck.  

Yeah, I actually considered van living a year or so ago, but I'm finally going through with it. I've been reading a ton of people's different builds. I really like the pics. Thanks. Nice reuse of the crutch leg.

 

[Almost There]

Since I'm perennially a day late to threads these days (using internet wherever and whenever I can find it), here's multiple answers for you.

I sleep across the inside of the GMC Savana, my bed mattress foam was cut to 68" and it's a little sloppy so I can lift it to access the compartments over the wheel wells. Say total 69" max. I'm only 5' tall so it works for me but I don't sleep on my stomach. If I were taller I would have to run the bed lengthwise so that I could stretch out my toes.

Be warned that the newer vans, particularly the GMC/Chev have a terrible curve at the back doors which means that if you run your bed all the way to the back, open your doors in the rain, you WILL have a wet bed. I moved mine up by a full foot and put cabinets in behind for storage so that rain and bedding won't ever meet unless it's going sideways.

Here's a pic of what I did over the stepwell to increase my floor space.




As to stove, I'm planning on putting in a 2 burner alcohol stove normally used for on boats. I'm used to using an alcohol stove while out on canoe/backpacking trips so I'm comfortable using them, not all are.

Single burner Colemans are available if you prefer propane. The one's that sit on top of the propane bottle are tippy and I won't use them under any condition but there are stoves that hook up on the side. They take up a little more room on the counter but allow for a stable cooking area.

 

[milge]

Since I'm perennially a day late to threads these days (using internet wherever and whenever I can find it), here's multiple answers for you.

I sleep across the inside of the GMC Savana, my bed mattress foam was cut to 68" and it's a little sloppy so I can lift it to access the compartments over the wheel wells. Say total 69" max. I'm only 5' tall so it works for me but I don't sleep on my stomach. If I were taller I would have to run the bed lengthwise so that I could stretch out my toes.

Be warned that the newer vans, particularly the GMC/Chev have a terrible curve at the back doors which means that if you run your bed all the way to the back, open your doors in the rain, you WILL have a wet bed. I moved mine up by a full foot and put cabinets in behind for storage so that rain and bedding won't ever meet unless it's going sideways.

Here's a pic of what I did over the stepwell to increase my floor space.

As to stove, I'm planning on putting in a 2 burner alcohol stove normally used for on boats. I'm used to using an alcohol stove while out on canoe/backpacking trips so I'm comfortable using them, not all are.

Single burner Colemans are available if you prefer propane. The one's that sit on top of the propane bottle are tippy and I won't use them under any condition but there are stoves that hook up on the side. They take up a little more room on the counter but allow for a stable cooking area.

I've run a hobo stove on alcohol whenever I do long distance hikes, so I can appreciate a good alcohol stove. I'll be doing propane for convenience.  Based on everyone's feedback, I'll be running a bed lengthwise, rather than across the back.

Has anyone piped vents from the floor rather than doing the roof vent? I imagine two pipes on diagonal corners of the van: one going up to near the roof and one staying close to the floor. Both pipes would have computer fans blowing in different directions. You can switch directions depending on if you are trying to keep it cool or hot inside. Remove the pipes and put in rubber grommets when not in use. I like the roof vents, but would like to keep things as stealthy, non-leaky, and as cheap as possible.

 

[Reven]

I really like the olympic wave 3 but may just use my burner for heat.

Do you mean using the cookstove burner as a heat source?  If so, that sounds like a really bad idea.  An open-flame cooker is a very inefficient burn with lots of CO.  In an enclosed space... yikes.  In a well ventilated van you can get away with the brief times needed for cooking, but the extended burn time required for heating sounds more than a little dicey.  I may be wrong; someone please correct me if I am, but...

 

[milge]

Do you mean using the cookstove burner as a heat source?  If so, that sounds like a really bad idea.  An open-flame cooker is a very inefficient burn with lots of CO.  In an enclosed space... yikes.  In a well ventilated van you can get away with the brief times needed for cooking, but the extended burn time required for heating sounds more than a little dicey.  I may be wrong; someone please correct me if I am, but...

I actually read on here it's a good way to heat since it all burns off. And people use this to diffuse heat:

http://www.amazon.com/Norpro-144-Heat-Diffuser/dp/B0000X6ESO

But yeah, it would be good for other people to chime in.