Old Vans versus New Vans?

[highdesertranger]

yeah the harness is a junk yard item. then you run the risk of it being just as bad. highdesertranger

 

[John61CT]

With the right terminators, wiring stock and crimpers, can't a harness just be built up from scratch one connection at a time?

 

[Van on 66]

With the right terminators, wiring stock and crimpers, can't a harness just be built up from scratch one connection at a time?

That's my thinking too John and if it comes down to that, it is what I will do.

 

[Gary68]

i''l add the thicker gauge sheet metal in older rigs and how awesome knobs are

 

[Van on 66]

i''l add the thicker gauge sheet metal in older rigs and how awesome knobs are

Thanks for the feedback Gary68.  And I agree!

 

[Van on 66]

yeah the harness is a junk yard item.  then you run the risk of it being just as bad.  highdesertranger

I agree highdesertranger.  If it comes down to the problem being the harness, I am considering building it from scratch myself.

 

[Ballenxj]

  If it comes down to the problem being the harness, I am considering building it from scratch myself.

If you have a place to lay the old wiring loom out and remove the outer insulation, you may be able to spot where the old one is defective. At that point you can opt to either repair the damaged one, or rebuild it with heavier wire. I kind of like the idea of the second option for a more trouble free loom that will last longer.

 

[Van on 66]

If you have a place to lay the old wiring loom out and remove the outer insulation, you may be able to spot where the old one is defective. At that point you can opt to either repair the damaged one, or rebuild it with heavier wire. I kind of like the idea of the second option for a more trouble free loom that will last longer.

At this point, I am locked in to having a mechanic get my van going at the moment.  He is someone who has worked on my van before and who I like and trust.  He is pretty confident after looking in to all the possibilities for the trouble I have had that the PCM did fail and is having it rebuilt.  I am supposed to finally get my van back this coming Wednesday because the business doing the PCM rebuild has been backed up. 

Still, after doing all my research on the common issues with this van, I am thinking that it would be a good idea to at least rebuild a wiring harness myself using better materials and keep it with me for the future.  If the rebuilt PCM resolves my issues right now than maybe I will leave the original wiring harness already in the van alone for the time being. 

Still...there is that lingering question if I would just be better off to replace it now.  I will be giving that more thought over the next few days while I am hunting for a used harness from a salvage yard which so far hasn't been easy.

 

[Ballenxj]

At this point, I am locked in to having a mechanic get my van going at the moment.  He is someone who has worked on my van before and who I like and trust.  He is pretty confident after looking in to all the possibilities for the trouble I have had that the PCM did fail and is having it rebuilt. 
<-------->
Still...there is that lingering question if I would just be better off to replace it now.  I will be giving that more thought over the next few days while I am hunting for a used harness from a salvage yard which so far hasn't been easy.

IMO, a rebuilt good quality loom is insurance against a known defect. I do understand what a pain in the derriere it would be to get it done though.
If the new PCM works and you trust it, then go with it. Let's hope that's the end of it.

 

[Van on 66]

IMO, a rebuilt good quality loom is insurance against a known defect. I do understand what a pain in the derriere it would be to get it done though.
If the new PCM works and you trust it, then go with it. Let's hope that's the end of it.

It is going on four weeks now so I am more than ready to get this over with.  I am hoping that this will be the end of this episode, but even if it is, I am going to rebuild the wiring harness anyway from one off a salvaged van.  So...the search goes on to find one...

 

[steamjam1]

van on 66: When it comes to Dodge, it's not necessarily the wires that go bad. Its the pins in the connectors that corrode. I wouldn't bother recreating a whole harness. Once you inspect and clean every little connector, throw a dab of Vaseline into it as you plug it back in to whatever it goes too. It'll keep moisture out.. Then throw a dab of RTV to the backside of the connector where the wires lead into the connector. You'll notice that although some connectors have a rubber seal... moisture gets in through the back.... Go look at your 02 sensor connectors... You'll see what I mean.

Chrysler spent millions over the years redesigning, and updating Dodge vans when it comes to appearance, safety, and efficiency... Yet hired a comedian to redesign the electrical system.

 

[Ballenxj]

van on 66: When it comes to Dodge, it's not necessarily the wires that go bad. Its the pins in the connectors that corrode. I wouldn't bother recreating a whole harness. Once you inspect and clean every little connector, throw a dab of Vaseline into it as you plug it back in to whatever it goes too. It'll keep moisture out.. Then throw a dab of RTV to the backside of the connector where the wires lead into the connector. You'll notice that although some connectors have a rubber seal... moisture gets in through the back.... Go look at your 02 sensor connectors... You'll see what I mean.

Chrysler spent millions over the years redesigning, and updating Dodge vans when it comes to appearance, safety, and efficiency... Yet hired a comedian to redesign the electrical system.

This makes perfect sense, I was unaware of where they go bad, and why. I'm glad you chimed in.

 

[Putts]

Totally agree...electrical problems are almost always connectors.

I'd use dielectric grease rather than Vaseline, though.

https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-22058-Dielectric-Tune-Up-Grease/dp/B000AL8VD2

I think you can get it at WalMart.

 

[Van on 66]

van on 66: When it comes to Dodge, it's not necessarily the wires that go bad. Its the pins in the connectors that corrode. I wouldn't bother recreating a whole harness. Once you inspect and clean every little connector, throw a dab of Vaseline into it as you plug it back in to whatever it goes too. It'll keep moisture out.. Then throw a dab of RTV to the backside of the connector where the wires lead into the connector. You'll notice that although some connectors have a rubber seal... moisture gets in through the back.... Go look at your 02 sensor connectors... You'll see what I mean.

Chrysler spent millions over the years redesigning, and updating Dodge vans when it comes to appearance, safety, and efficiency... Yet hired a comedian to redesign the electrical system.

All good information steamjam1.  Thanks.  I will take it to heart.  I really appreciate your last statement!

 

[steamjam1]

Totally agree...electrical problems are almost always connectors.

I'd use dielectric grease rather than Vaseline, though.

https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-22058-Dielectric-Tune-Up-Grease/dp/B000AL8VD2

I think you can get it at WalMart.

I'll never forget this, and somewhere I still have a copy of it because its so hilariously badly worded, but a loooooong time ago when I was just a weed getting started at my first job at Chrysler as an apprentice tech, I got a service bulletin that said:

"Remove connector, apply petroleum jelly to female end, re-insert male end. Wipe off excess."

 

[Putts]

Probably a recruiting bulletin.

 

[vfourmax]

I will never own another Dodge. I had one that also had the PCM/Wiring harness issues and it took about 3 pcm's (as the wiring harness takes them out) and three years to actually track down the all the defects in the wiring harness that were causing the problems. Also after 85,000 miles the first transmission took a dump and had it rebuilt. At 150,000 the second transmission took a dump and at that time I refused to put another dime in it and unloaded it for what the value of a good engine was going for.

The Ford you show the link for, the pictures of the gauges show good oil pressure at operating temps and that would be one at the price I would take the time to look at. May be able to pick it up for around 1800.00 if you are waving dead presidents at the time of the offer and even if you need to spend a few hundred that could make a really good vehicle. Fuel mileage will suck and factory replacement carbs are not worth buying anymore since the cores are usually worn out and suck air around the shafts but an aluminum intake with a small Eldebrock performer carb will cure any carb issues, increase the power and driveabilty and if driven in a reasonable manner even give you a little better MPG over a factory two barrel.
Good luck in making a decision that suits you the best.

 

[Van on 66]

I will never own another Dodge. I had one that also had the PCM/Wiring harness issues and it took about 3 pcm's (as the wiring harness takes them out) and three years to actually track down the all the defects in the wiring harness that were causing the problems. Also after 85,000 miles the first transmission took a dump and had it rebuilt. At 150,000 the second transmission took a dump and at that time I refused to put another dime in it and unloaded it for what the value of a good engine was going for.

The Ford you show the link for, the pictures of the gauges show good oil pressure at operating temps and that would be one at the price I would take the time to look at. May be able to pick it up for around 1800.00 if you are waving dead presidents at the time of the offer and even if you need to spend a few hundred that could make a really good vehicle. Fuel mileage will suck and factory replacement carbs are not worth buying anymore since the cores are usually worn out and suck air around the shafts but an aluminum intake with a small Eldebrock performer carb will cure any carb issues, increase the power and driveabilty and if driven in a reasonable manner even give you a little better MPG over a factory two barrel.
Good luck in making a decision that suits you the best.

Thanks for the feedback vfourmax.

I have discovered that these issues are very common with Dodge and I am not at all pleased about it.  I got my van back over the weekend and, in my case, both myself and the mechanic, who I know and trust, believe that the issue this time is the PCM.  The gasket that seals the two halves together was badly deteriorated to the point where there were huge gaps between them and spread even further apart in some places.  That resulted in moisture corrosion on the circuit board and many of the solder points on the board were broken, most likely due to the weight of the harness...once again the poor design of Dodge.  The reputation for the trannies from Dodge also concern me.

At this point, I think my van is fixed, but I am not convinced that I will keep it as I need a van that is dependable for long trips.  I too like the Ford and I have also found another one in far better shape than that one over the weekend and posted about it in the market thread here.  I agree with the opinion of many that there are pros and cons, but in my mind it just seems that they built things to last better back then and that, to me, is a good trade off for less performance and mpg.

Here is the link to the Ford van I posted about in the other thread.  https://dallas.craigslist.org/ftw/cto/6270606392.html

 

[user 423]

^
If that mileage is true, that low number can be as bad or worse than a higher mileage van. 43k over 32 years averages out to only 26 miles per week. It takes at least 7 miles of driving to get an engine up to operating temp. Lots of short trips are bad because it's not enough time for condensation & unburnt fuel to be burned out of the oil and that leads to a sludged up motor.

If they stuck to 3000 mile oil changes (as many gov't agencies do), it would only get fresh oil every 2 years. Then again it may have just sat unused for long periods which is also bad.

 

[Van on 66]

^
If that mileage is true, that low number can be as bad or worse than a higher mileage van. 43k over 32 years averages out to only 26 miles per week. It takes at least 7 miles of driving to get an engine up to operating temp. Lots of short trips are bad because it's not enough time for condensation & unburnt fuel to be burned out of the oil and that leads to a sludged up motor.

If they stuck to 3000 mile oil changes (as many gov't agencies do), it would only get fresh oil every 2 years.  Then again it may have just sat unused for long periods which is also bad.

I agree.  I am willing to bet that it is more like 143k, which would be much better for all the reasons you mentioned.