NYT report - not getting obamacare

[Goshawk]

Looks like it makes financial sense for some at least in their minds to not get obamacare. I like the mention that if insurance costs more than 8% you get no penalty. 8% of $20000 yearly income is only $1600 a year. Bet many are exempt from penalty and are fearful of not getting insurance. Not saying to not get insurance, as many will need it. Just that you might not be forced to.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/04/u...st-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

 

[WriterMs]

I got an exemption for 2015 because lovely South Dakota had not participated in expanded Medicare. I fell through the cracks as the feds saw it -- making too much money to get free or reasonable insurance but not enough to actually afford the insurance being offered. I had never known what that percentage was, so thanks for sharing that.

Somehow.. and I suspect SD residents went back to being able to use the federal marketplace... this year I can get insurance at a very affordable rate. I have a very high deductible and it is a preferred provider plan (so if I see a doctor out of the network, the insurance only pays about 40%), BUT if something very expensive goes wrong with me I do have coverage.

People should remember that most people who make below "average" income will get some subsidy for the insurance costs -- it is worth checking out for sure.

 

[Goshawk]

WriterMS. Good point!! Wa looking at an insurance bill versus procedure cost today. Procedure $10,000. Insurance knocked $6000 off the bill for what is allowed. Rather huge discount. Then they paid $3500. Out of pocket $500.

 

[Canine]

Maybe someday the richest country in the world will join other civilized countries and we will all have universal coverage.

 

[BradKW]

Maybe someday the richest country in the world will join other civilized countries and we will all have universal coverage.

Doubtful any time soon...the sort of changes needed to tort reform, insurance industry, and medical bureaucracy for insurance to actually be affordable are so extensive that the whole thing almost needs to collapse before it could be redone. For me, the government considers $580/month for catastrophic care with a $6,000 deductible to be reasonable. Which basically translates to me needing to be out of pocket something like $13,000 per year before I see any insurance benefit.

Point being, that's just nutz. There's just no way to institute a single payer universal system without raising taxes on people who actually work to a level where it would make more sense for them to stop working. I have friends who yearly get tax returns for between $4k-$8k and they don't have jobs...just kids and "earned income credits".

The whole government is so broken it almost makes me wish Trump gets elected...not because I think he'll do anything resembling a "good job", but because I think he'll blow the whole mess up. Sad to say, but I believe the best Washington can do is government shutdown...at least then they aren't making things worse.

 

[Gary68]

as someone who has had the pleasure of dealing with the health care establishment the last few years i can tell you the biggest obstacle between me and health care has been the insurance company,at the moment i'm saving to have some teeth removed,the infections dont show on xray so the insurance wont cover it so the dentist wont do anything and this is after having it blows up on me,hospital visit,antibiotic i.v.,go to 3 different dentist with swollen face and they sit there and say they dont see anything on xray ,i have been having pain down appendix way for a few years but insurance only covers it after it has ruptured so doctors do nothing

remember the insurance company is there to make money not spend it on you,cash money is the way to go and get that for profit company out of in between you and your health

 

[Tele]

Obvious problems to be solved asap:
1. Medical experts are expensive so insurance thats affordable is desperately needed -worldwide by billions of people.
2. Law experts are expensive, so ditto (for individuals). Exactly the same need.

As said in posts above, corporates are not seeing the big picture. Drop the amount of profit per customer. Its a bigger number of customers than they realise.

Government solutions:
The government experimented with a profession- Teachers. They educate our young using taxation revenue. Results vary but ... its proof of concept. The revenue comes back to the government when our young earn income. Again, results vary, good apples and bad apples for sure, but is it a model for universal medical? England has done it, Australia has done it. Hmmmm.

 

[LeeRevell]

We might have viable "universal healthcare" IF we could slash/eliminate other waste.  Far too much of the national treasury wasted on foreign aid and providing benefits to noncitizens.  Too much corruption in the medical industry (and it IS very much an industry).  Get the hospitals quit of being run by greedy bean counters it might get better.  Better leave off.  Too easy to get political here.
But just keep in mind.....   obamacare is a tax scam administered by the IRS.  It has NOTHING whatsoever to do with healthcare.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Maybe someday the richest country in the world will join other civilized countries and we will all have universal coverage.

I hear that universal coverage in Canada is a disaster.  We have a number of Canadian members here.  Perhaps they could comment on how well their system works or doesn't work?

Regards
John

 

[LeeRevell]

Have read bad things of English and Aussie systems too - long wait times for exams and procedures, refusal of certain critical tests, etc.  Can anyone verify or refute these with real world data?
I may be highly Conservative (NOT a GOPer), but I do keep an open mind and welcome enlightenment.

 

[ccbreder]

This thread is full of false information. Please look into your own insurance under medicare, medicaid, or ACA.

 

[BradKW]

This thread is full of false information. Please look into your own insurance under medicare, medicaid, or ACA.

Shopping for health insurance is about the only time I wished I was either older, made less money, or lived in Massachusetts

To get what I would consider "decent" coverage (Gold), I'm looking at $640/month, $1500 deductible. Again, imo, that's just nutz... :/

One question that NYT article doesn't appear to answer would be: is this 8% of income based upon the lowest possible insurance premium offered in the lowest possible bracket (Bronze). I tend to assume it is, but its something I need to look into...

 

[Canine]

This is an interesting thread and since some of us are "ahem"senior citizens,it's a useful discussion.Since the government provides me free medical care,I think everyone else should receive it also.I don't think I'm so special,just because I'm a vet.Medicare for all would be a good start.Yes,I know the Medicare will be broke in 15 years,but we could have excellent care far into the future if the money we spend on Ins. went to Medicare.As usual,I have no facts,just opinions.

 

[ccbreder]

No one gets earned income credit unless they have a job with an income. Check here ( http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/ ) for an estimate of ACA costs. They can be very high in some states. South Florida is one that costs more.

 

[BradKW]

No one gets earned income credit unless they have a job with an income.

Actually no, you don't need to "have" a job, you only need to have "had" a job during the tax year which generates a W2 to file with. So if a person worked a month in 2015, qualified for EITC by having a few kids, they would have received a "refund" of around $6200.

Then your income has to be within stated limits. Finally, if you have one or more kids, they have to qualify too for you to receive a larger credit. If you pass all these tests, you could get a credit of as much as $6,242 for 2015 depending on your income and the number of children you have.

 

[Goshawk]

As far as Canada-Australia-England healthcare systems that are public. Are people expiring? Elderly relatives? Is that being kept secret? Are people secretly in massive pain and no media reports? We hear nothing about people failing to get help because people will find a way around red tape for practical care.

As far needing public medical care in USA. We have it. In a weird way. 1) desperate poor have it. Medicaid. 2) elderly have it Medicare. 3) veterans have it VA hospitals.

Everyone else has to pay via insurance and ridiculous co-pay schemes that are completely and drastically different in each state.

 

[Goshawk]

Point is that you can move to a state (like Massachusetts or Michigan ) that has better support for public healthcare, that fills the cracks of insurance cost.

Or you can just take better care of yourself. Are you at a lower end of body weight for your height? Are you getting aerobic and anaerobic exercise daily? Are you eating the right foods that are food and not processes over complicated machined food? Are you getting check ups? Do you keep yourself clean to prevent infection from starting? Do you understand that regardless of prevention you will get older and you will die, but hopefully not too soon. Sometime after 60 it's going to happen though.

Point is to make the best of it all. You do have choices. You can move still. You can get some kind of income mostly still. Am glad we have more insurance choice for now, and wish that we could have more choice.

Am willing to drive 1000 miles to get better care. The problem is my family has jobs and can't do the same.

 

[LeeRevell]

Family commitments often make moving impossible.  The political climate in some areas also makes them impossible to live in, such as for me California, Illinois, Massachusettes (among others) are totally untenable.   Available healthcare not withstanding.
We each make our choices with what we have available in our AO.
For our Southwestern members, being able to scoot across to sunny Mexico for cheap meds and services is certainly a good option.

 

[BradKW]

from www.FactCheck.org :
The penalty/tax will be phased in from 2014 to 2016.
The minimum penalty/tax in 2016 will be $695 per person and up to 3-times that per family. After 2016, these amounts will increase at the rate of inflation.
The minimum penalty/tax per person will start at $95 in 2014 (and then increase through 2016)
No family will ever pay more than 3X the per-person penalty, regardless of how many people are in the family.
The $695 per-person penalty is only for those who make between $9,500 and ~$37,000 per year. If you make less than ~$9.500, you’re exempt. If you make more than ~$37,000, your penalty is calculated by the following formula…
The penalty is 2.5% of any household income above the level at which you are required to file a tax return. That level is currently $9,500 per person and $19,000 per couple. The penalty on any income above that is 2.5%. So the penalty can get expensive quickly if you make a lot of money.
However, the penalty can never be more than the cost of a “Bronze” heath insurance plan purchased through one of the state “exchanges” that will be created as part of Obamacare. The CBO estimates that these policies will cost $4,500-$5,000 per person and $12,000-$12,500 per family in 2016, with the costs rising thereafter.
So, basically, you’re looking at penalties of approximately the following at the following income levels:
Less than $9,500 income = $0
$9,500 – $37,000 income = $695
$50,000 income = $1,000
$75,000 income = $1,600
$100,000 income = $2,250
$125,000 income = $2,900
$150,000 income = $3,500
$175,000 income = $4,100
$200,000 income = $4,700

 

[East]

If anyone is curious about qualifying for medicaid:

To qualify for medicaid under ACA the income limit is 138% of FPL (Federal Poverty Level). In the 48 contiguous states this is $16,243 for single person or $21,983 for a couple per year as of 2015.

The supreme court gutted the ACA medicaid expansion by allowing states to choose if they would like to expand medicaid. For political reasons many states have chosen not to expand medicaid coverage under the ACA, denying their most impoverished citizens access to healthcare. Under the terms of the ACA states are covered for 100% of the expenses by the federal government initially, though that number is slowly reduced to 90% coverage by the federal government, meaning the state would only have to deliver 10% of the costs associated with medicaid expansion indefinitely.