Not Consenting to a Police Search

[GrayWhale]

This girl, who's been on the road for 2 years, said that the cops ransacked her whole van and made a huge mess. Skip to the 5 minute mark. This makes me think it's very important to have a dash camera mounted and filming the cops just to make sure they don't violate your rights when you don't consent to the search. And having it uploaded to the internet in real time would be the best in case they take the camera or something.

The rest of her video about her mistakes are pretty useless because the mistakes are low tech mistakes. Like how she hooked up jumper cables from a house battery in the front seat to the starter battery in the engine bay, through the window and drove off with the hood not completely shut so it flew open at 60mph.

 

[Van-Tramp]

Ah, the mistakes was that she DID consent to the search.

She did it to herself then. Anyone who things the Police are going to politely dig thru your van, putting all things back in their place (unbroken) has some screws loose.

Do not consent! I can't believe people ever consent. It just blows my mind.

 

[mockturtle]

You're so right, VT! Just say no to searches without a warrant.

 

[GrayWhale]

What I worry about is that they will bring in the drug sniffing dog and create a false alert. Then say that they now have probable cause, ransack my van and once they find nothing illegal, they plant something. Am I being overly paranoid and have watched too many movies? Also, how about the State you're in. I think she got her van searched in Virginia, and the cops there are pretty rough compared to more Liberal States.

 

[caseyc]

You're being paranoid ;-)

 

[PastTense]

It's possible they would only do a casual search if you consented--while doing a very deep detailed search if you had refused (doing the search after following the legal process)--on the theory that your refusal meant you were hiding something--while previously they only had a vague suspicion. And waiting for the search warrant is going to cost you a substantial amount of time.

Conversely if you had refused they might have been bluffing, thus no search at all.

So on pragmatic grounds it's difficult to say which is best.

 

[Patrick46]

What I worry about is that they will bring in the drug sniffing dog and create a false alert. Then say that they now have probable cause, ransack my van and once they find nothing illegal, they plant something. Am I being overly paranoid and have watched too many movies?

I used to think this same way GW...but not any more!!

I think the key is to a.) NOT be carrying anything your need to worry about...

and b.) DECLINE, but do it respectfully and politely. It's when folks start 'acting' suspicious that the red flags go up. That's when things escalate outta hand.

Look, the cops are well aware (most of the time) of your civil rights. They KNOW that you can exercise those rights and refuse their search. Now they know they're tredding on thin ice, because violating your rights...especially when you KNOW what those rights are, and you're NOT being belligerent or a smart-ass with 'em, will get anything they potentially find, thrown outta court for false search & seisure.

Cops & robbers have one thing in common...they like easy targets.
A thug doesn't want someone who's gonna fight back...they want to intimidate you into surrendering your property WITHOUT a fight.
LEO's work from a parallel view...they want someone who's gonna submit their 'authority', without having the wits or knowledge of the law, to stand their legal ground. They, much like the thugs, do this through intimidation...based on the simple fact that, if they want to...they can make your day extremely miserable...whether they bust you or not!!


I'm very polite around LEO's, (it's not a job I'd wanna do...), but I don't let 'em push me........and they know it.


btw...I couldn't watch that entire video...that gal's monotone talking was driving me nuts!!!!

 

[jeanontheroad]

One thing YT monologs are really good at is telling one side of a story. Not saying that her story is not the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Just saying it's the story entirely from a viewpoint she wants to present.

 

[mconlonx]

And having it uploaded to the internet in real time would be the best in case they take the camera or something.

Until this year, there was a service called Qik, but when I searched, looks like Skype bought them out. Maybe Skype would do the trick/

It's possible they would only do a casual search if you consented--while doing a very deep detailed search if you had refused (doing the search after following the legal process)--on the theory that your refusal meant you were hiding something--while previously they only had a vague suspicion. And waiting for the search warrant is going to cost you a substantial amount of time.

Positively asserting your rights is not an admission of guilt, not considered cause or suspicion in court to allow for a search without a warrant, or a reason to issue a warrant.

 

[SternWake]

Growing up in NJ, LEO's left me with an overwhelming contempt for them. It was a major reason I left, and a reason I have no wish to return.

When I was 18 I got pulled over, refused permission to search, and the cop did anyway, just made up a lie about smelling something. The case got thrown out of court as the entire police report was a fabrication, but it still cost me a lot of money and stress, and the liar of a LEO, actually became police chief later on, and the douche still had a hard on for me and my friends and the harassment was ridiculous. All because of a plant.

I've had no issues with the law since I left NJ. I've been pulled over plenty, but rarely asked to be searched, and always decline and it ended with them shining their light around at what they could see through the windows.

I would like to be able to show them that I am not transporting illegals nor firearms, but no way would I accept them rifling through my home. As a very private person, It would infuriate me.

Of course a long term solution is to have nothing to hide, but still an overeager patrolman seeking to become detective someday has no qualms about ruining your day/life.

I've found turning on all my inside lights, keeping my hands on the wheel, all my paperwork in order, and being polite will have me driving away again, but I also have not been in NJ in a decade. Last time I was there with my van, I was followed constantly and could not even swerve to miss a pot hole, and often would find them trying to peer through my windows when parked.

All those East coast states seem to have cops who are just plain overeager, uptight, and suspicious, and contemptible in their methods.

Back when I used to frequent Baja, they have army checkpoints every so often and would just enter the van and some little 16 year old with a machine gun would start looking around, while another guy watched you to see if you got nervous.

Never an issue, though I resented them rifling through my things, and always expected them to steal something.

 

[Van-Tramp]

SternWake,

Transporting of firearms is NOT illegal in any of the 50 states. Some require extra storage, but in all 50 states it is 100% legal to transport guns (of all varieties) in your vehicle. Federal Law over-rides State law and allows the transport "through" states to follow Federal guidelines (ammo and gun separated and in locked containers) if you are uncertain of the state laws.

Beyond that, yes I feel the same way as you. I have actually NEVER had a cop harass me. They have never searched me or my cars. I have had knocks on the door in the middle of the night (all of which I ignore.. they always leave) and I have had the "can we look in your vehicle" which I always deny (they always grumble and leave). Most LEO's know the law and recognize when the civilian does too.

If the LEO is asking for your consent it is because HE DOES NOT HAVE CAUSE to search. If he had cause, he would not be asking you. Him asking it actually gives YOU the upper hand. You now know he has nothing, so don't give him the upper hand and consent. He may grumble, but 99 times out of 100, he will be driving off and leaving you alone. The other 1% means you will be getting a cash settlement in your near future (always file a lawsuit, there are attorneys that love this type of lawsuit, it is an easy paycheck for them). Would you spend a night in jail for $25,000? I would! Bring it on crooked-cop, my phone has video!

Do not fear them, that is what they want. Remember YOU are THEIR boss. THEY are the servants while YOU are the master. If you do not know your rights, educate yourself and life goes much smoother.

 

[pseudo_mccoy]

SternWake,
Bring it on crooked-cop, my phone has video!

Well said. You may be interested in Cop Block. I like the idea of taking a proactive stance against the road pirates.

I'm still very new to vandwelling. Only been on the road a month or so. Do I have the right to politely refuse a search in, say, a Target parking lot?

 

[Reducto]

You always have a right to say "I'm sorry, I do not consent to searches" anywhere in the US. You also have the right to not answer questions - all you have to give them is your insurance, registration, license, and address. I start off answering all questions as long as things stay civil, but when they start talking about bringing a drug sniffing dog around or asking weird leading questions I just say "Sorry, I will not be answering any more questions. Am I being detained or am I free to go?"

If they think you're up to something (which they are trained to do by default these days) and they think they can get away with a search they'll do it anyway but unless they can actually see or smell something directly it doesn't happen very often.

 

[VanLifeCrisis]

i never smoked weed in ma life, but when they cop knocked me, one of the cops said 'do I smell weed?'. in an otherwise empty lot but for me and them. it was a strong urge i had to resist to say it must be coming from them.

i think he was preparing his reason to search if i refused.

 

[Patrick46]

what about this approach???...

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/JutCjbmcq7s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Zil]

Stern wake. When i was 18 or 20 i also was stopped and some times searched. I only ended up in court when i was holding. So it was my bad. As an adult I have been stopped many times and spent some time talking to LEO curbside. But each incident has ended well except for the time lost. More than once i made a new friend with LEO. NJ is my home state and i return often. No more trouble here than any other state i have visited. Or Canada and Mexico for that matter. We each bring our own heat.

 

[vagari]

I don't trust LEO's. They've never helped me and have only caused me problems for no reason. I know there are always bad apples in any group, but there seems to be way too many bad ones in a group that is supposed to be above the rest.

Anyone who thinks "innocent until proven guilty" is really how it works is naive. It is "guilty until proven innocent" in my experiences. I had to spend thousands of dollars in attorney fees one time to defend myself for BS and you can't sue them to get your money back because they were acting in "good faith." My brother is an attorney and says what he learned in college is not reality.

I got a ticket one time for not staying in the lane closest to me when I made a right turn. I was pulling a travel trailer and it was impossible. It was when I refused the search that I got the ticket. Do you know how many cops I've seen in small cars not stay in the closest lane when turning?

Don't give me the its a tough job, blah, blah either. Nobody forced them to take the job. Its volunteer. They wouldn't be there if they didn't like it. It must be a good job as there are always tons of applicants for every one job opening.

In short, you have to earn my trust. Just because you have gotten yourself a shiny new uniform doesn't earn my trust.

 

[SternWake]

Zil,

I was last in NJ for a funeral 5 years ago. In the 3 days I was there I saw more cops and more people pulled over than in the 5 years since.


Combine the arrogance of authority in that state with the high percentage of people who will go out of their way to be obnoxious jerks, because it amuses them, and I'll not go back.

I brought heat on myself when 18 years old on that one incident, but there were so many other incidents where I was harassed without reason and had nothing to fear, but corruption of those with the badges.

I'm no criminal, but NJ forged an exceptional hatred of police in me that I still, cannot get over.

 

[caseyc]

My previous GF, a native New Yorker, used to tell me New Jersey is a cancer state, although they call themselves the garden state. She said it's cuz there's a bunch of toxic waste dumped in parts of New Jersey. I have no idea if this is true or not, just relaying what she used to tell me. If true, maybe that would explain the negativity. Who knows??

---

Oh dang, I guess it is true about New Jersey, per what my ex used to tell me.

http://mentalfloss.com/article/1781...te-dumps-and-whether-or-not-you-live-near-one

https://www.google.com/#q=is+there+toxic+waste+in+New+Jersey?

 

[Zil]

Washington DC has the most lawyers per square mile. NJ has the most Superfund sites. Any one know why?
New Jersey had the first choice.