New headlamp or new batteries?

[Vagabound]

I know that there is a general headlamp thread. I'm trying to get at something a bit different here.

I am in a bit of a quandary over headlamps and batteries.

I've gone through a series of apparently cheap headlamps that all take AAA batteries. My experience is that the batteries seem to die very quickly or the headlamps themselves seem to malfunction.

I want to fix it, but I'm not very keen on buying one of those lights that has a separate battery pack on a chord on your belt, or a headlamp that has its own built-in batteries.

The two options that occur to me at the moment are these:

1.  Keep my current headlamps and buy some rechargeable AAA batteries to use with my current rechargeable battery charger. At least if the batteries died quickly, it will be less of a problem.

2.  Buy a new headlamp that uses AA batteries. I think that may be a solution only because I've been told that those batteries last a lot longer than Triple A's. This would also be used with rechargeable batteries.

For background, I'm trying to use rechargeable AAs for most of my minor electrical needs, such as lighting, etc.

Any ideas appreciated.

Tom

 

[Wabbit]

If you already have a supply of AA rechargeables, get a AA headlamp and use rechargeable. I have a Coleman headlamp w\AAA's that I recharge with my nitecore recharger. The batteries(AAA's), don't last that long. In fact, when I goto buy another headlamp, will go with AA's myself. Or if this thread has other suggestions, maybe that way.

 

[Vanada]

I highly recommend the Black Diamond Revolt. It comes with rechargeable AAA's, can take regular AAA's, can be recharged straight off of USB in the lamp itself and doesn't have an external battery pack. The rechargeable batteries that come with it are Black Diamond branded but you can get regular rechargeables and just have to cut a bit of the sheath off to extend the negative pole. That's the only "special" thing about the "special" batteries.

 

[highdesertranger]

I bought one of these, https://www.amazon.com/Nitecore-Rec...1488583067&sr=8-1&keywords=nitecore+head+lamp , dang it's awesome. on high it's brighter then my 4wheeler headlights. battery last a long time. built in recharger 120v and 12v cables included. I have an extra battery for it but it last so long I have never needed it. when the battery gets low it only goes to 2 out of 5 power but that's enough to get work done. you can charge it from a standard usb. the only downfall is it takes like 6 hours to charge. highdesertranger

 

[Vagabound]

All good info so far. If anybody wanders along who can talk about the differences between AA and AAA batteries, for example, differences in their energy storage capacity, that would be great.

Tom

 

[Wabbit]

@Tom...(hope you laugh) safe link on my wabbit honor!

http://bfy.tw/AQpK

 

[Vagabound]

All good info so far. If anybody wanders along who can talk about the differences between AA and AAA batteries, for example, differences in their energy storage capacity, that would be great.

Tom

... ( in case it wasn't obvious already) beyond or supplementing what can be found with a simple Google search.

Tom

 

[SternWake]

There is at least one entire forum dedicated to flashlights and they have a subforum dedicated to skull based headlamps, as opposed to automotive headlamps, but they have a subforum for that too.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?6-Headlamps&s=9cb2663bed70b44220e810a72669cc31

As for the the difference between AA and AAA, well they are both nominal 1.5 volt cells, and the AA being bigger, stores more energy.

Usually if there are 3 AAA cells it is a flashlight designed 4.5 volts, 1.5x 3, but it is possible they are in parallel for 1.5 volts but 3 times the capacity, but I suspect this is rare.

An AA cell is 14MM in diameter, and 50MM long.

There is An AA sized  lithium cell referred to as a 14500, but these are a Nominal 3.7 volts.

The battery in HDR's Nitcore HC90 light is a 18650 cell.  These have been the highest energy density cell with a  nominal voltage of 3.7v and capacity now upto 3600mAH.  This size format is Used in Tesla's electric cars, there are something like 2500 to 4500  of these cells in each of their battery packs.  Tesla's new gigafactory will be making a larger type of cell, I think it is 21700, meaning 21 mm diameter and 70MM long.  They say they can get more energy density from these, or perhaps they can simply fit better cooling or cell interconnects inside one of thier battery packs. I know not.

18650's have been a standard around which many flashlights and headlamps have been built around, but perhaps the 21700? size will be the size batteries the next generation of flashlights is built around.

I know not.

I personally have a Nitecore HC50 flashlight, that is about 5 years old now, and has a LOT of use on it. So much so the headband is now stretched out and not quite so pristine looking anymore.  My laptop also uses 18650 cells and I have opened up old battery packs to extract these cells, but in comparison to the high Quality panasonic NCR18650B cells I purchased, well they have a fraction of the run time, and my laptop extractions will be dropped off for recycling at Best buy at some point.  My 5 year old panasonic cells are still performing very well and these get by far the most cycles on them, as I prefer to not have to swap out the laptop extractions so often. also the laptop extracted 18650' are just cheap quality cells which are likely more dangerous.

These 18650 cells can come in protected versions, that prevent them from overcharge or overdischarge, and this is most beneficial in devices which use many cells, much less beneficial in devices that use only one cell.

The protections add about 2 or 3MM of length to the battery and perhaps 1MM of width to it, but most devices meant for an 18650 cell can accept the larger.

There are many chargers available for 18650 cells.  I use a 5 year old nitecore I4v2 charger, and this can do Nimh AA or AAA, and most any size of Lithium cell, automatically.  It can also be plugged into 12vDC instead of having to use an inverter.  Nitecore now has a D4 charger that is supposedly significantly better, in terms of battery charging prowess( any type) and has a display showing how much Mah each battery required, which is nice for seeing the capacity decline of a battery.

I am not upto date on AA or AAA based headlamps.  I am sticking with the 18650 size because their light output is simply amazing when on high, and mine has 5 separate level settings, and HDR's HC90 has nearly double the lumens as my HC50 on high, although they do have a higher output version of my HC50 available now too. 

The HC90 is something crazy like 1000 Lumens.  1000 lumens is what an old style 55 watt halogen sealed beam headlamp on an 80's type of vehicle is supposed to output, if that gives one an idea of how incredibly bright these Newest LEDs powered by lithium batteries can do. 

Nimh batteries are quite good now, but they are limited in voltage to 1.5.  Actually fully charged they are abourt 1.46 and dead at 1.15 or so.

lesser voltage means less electrical pressure, so these have to stack more cells in series to attain the voltage, and Alkaline or Nimh batteries are nowhere near as energy dense as Lithium batteries, so they cannot produce light for as long.

Anyway, this topic can go on forever and I can't pretend to know everything on it and all the absolute latest offerings.

 

[Vagabound]

...

Anyway, this topic can go on forever and I can't pretend to know everything on it and all the absolute latest offerings.

That's exactly the kind of supplemental information I was looking for. Thanks, SW.

Tom

 

[Wabbit]

... ( in case it wasn't obvious already) beyond or supplementing what can be found with a simple Google search...

So...you didn't laugh? I'll adjust my sense of humor accordingly. Hope you get the answer that works. I found out from this thread that some headlights use 18650's, I have a lot of those(ecigs), so that's the direction I will be going. Only because that fits in with what I have\use\charge already.

 

[Vagabound]

So...you didn't laugh? I'll adjust my sense of humor accordingly. Hope you get the answer that works. I found out from this thread that some headlights use 18650's, I have a lot of those(ecigs), so that's the direction I will be going. Only because that fits in with what I have\use\charge already.

No adjustment needed. 

Sometimes, even people like me who research the crap out of everything -- in Google, and outside of Google -- can I ask a question that Google might be able to answer. 

So many people in here know so many things, it's sometimes easy to just start a conversation and ask. Google is pretty good at factual information, but not quite as good at holistic condensing and value judgements, such as, will AA batteries perform a lot better than AAA's in headlamps. That's the kind of thing that people with experience can usually answer better.

Tom

P.S. - After I sighed, I did crack a smile.

 

[Reducto]

If I can help it, I'll never use a Nimh battery again. That's what those rechargeable AA and AAA batteries are. They drain fast sitting on the shelf and have a tendency to disintegrate. They also need a special charger, and I'm trying to minimize how many charging devices I have.

Alkaline is ok for low power or rarely used devices like clocks or flashlights you hardly ever need.

Lithium batteries are superior. They hold a lot of power, charge fast, and maintain their power when sitting on the shelf. I have a couple of things now that use the 18650's and one has a built-in USB charger so I can use that to charge all of my items and I always have a spare charged battery on hand.

I like that nightcore headlight! That's going in my wish list right now.

 

[SternWake]

Sanyo Eneloops are niMH and supposedly have much lower self discharge than other NiMh batteries.


I've had many overdischarged nimh's that the charger would not recognize.  My trick to getting them to charge was to hook them to 12 volts for about half a second.  The battery would get very warm in that short period of time, then recharge on the charger.

This usually only happened on older batteries whose capacity was compromised anyway, but I still have some I give this treatment.

I'd have a hard time going back to any non lithium based battery flashlight after seeing was 3.7v batteries and LEDs can do

 

[Vanada]

Sanyo Eneloops are niMH and supposedly have much lower self discharge than other NiMh batteries.


I've had many overdischarged nimh's that the charger would not recognize.  My trick to getting them to charge was to hook them to 12 volts for about half a second.  The battery would get very warm in that short period of time, then recharge on the charger.

This usually only happened on older batteries whose capacity was compromised anyway, but I still have some I give this treatment.

I'd have a hard time going back to any non lithium based battery flashlight after seeing was 3.7v batteries and LEDs can do

Might have already told this story on another thread but anyway...

My Dad and I compared the Black Diamond and Eneloop niMH in the same lamp with a light meter. The Eneloops came in a full f stop higher, aka double the amount of light. Regardless of how many lumens it was, verdict is Eneloop = Good.

 

[RVTravel]

I like Fenix lights. The best nimh rechargeables are probably eneloops. For AA, the Fenix HL23 is a good value. For 18650 (equal to 4 AA) the best value might be Thrunite TH10, but it is heavier of course.

https://www.fenixlighting.com/product/hl23-fenix-headlamp/

http://www.thrunite.com/thrunite-th10-headlamp-max-825-lumen/

 

[Cosmo]

An Eneloop AAA stores about 800 MA
An Eneloop AA stores about 2000 MA

Divide the battery capacity by the MA the headlamp uses and you get run time.


The light output is rated in Lumens (and other measures I don't understand).

 1 AAA or 3 AAA wired in series (which most flashlights are  put out 3 times the voltage  but the same amount of ma. 3 AAA wired in parallel will put out 3 times the ma but the voltage of one battery.

My  headlamp  favorite (I have owned quite a few is this
Petzl - TIKKA XP Headlamp 180 Lumens http://amzn.to/2n2asXM 

The 2017 Tikka energy consumption of the TIKA XP
180 lumens 75 min run time (Short duration use, Switches back to origination level after 12 seconds to conserve battery life  - Flame thrower for distant objects)
120 lumens 2 hrs of battery life (Hiking down an unknown ROUGH trail where high output is needed)
40 lumens 8 hrs of battery life (Hiking down trails at night, working on the engine etc where bright light is needed)
5 lumens for 100 hrs of battery life (cooking, wandering around camp, going to the bathroom - general lighting looking for stuff in camp).

All the Petzl lights I have owned were 100% reliable under all conditions and on inspection I expect the same from this XP. I have no concerns.

Your use pattern will dictate battery life.
• On the lowest setting (5 lumens for 100 hrs of battery life) 100 hours of light is fantastic. Fine for familiar areas or in a tent etc. It’s enough light for me to cook with. I can roam around the basement or back yard. No problem bringing out the garbage on this setting etc. It just does not project the beam very far (maybe 20 or 30 feet outdoors).
• The middle level (40 lumens 8 hrs of battery life) is BRIGHT. You get both a wide beam LED for area lighting and a second LED for distance at the same time. XP outputs much more area light on this setting than the XP2 with diffuser up or down and more distance. I could hike an unfamiliar trail on this setting. 8 hour of light is spectacular for this brightness The XP completely outshines the XP2. The tuned beam patterns of the new XP outshines the XP2 dot of light and provides much more area lighting and distance lighting at the same time. Old XP2 you had to choose distance or wide diffused.
• Third level (120 lumens 2 hrs of battery life) on the new XP is very bright and outshines all modes of the XP2 (twice as bright). Good for finding trail markers in the distance or looking for sounds in the night at a good distance. 2 hours of battery life is good – I would only use this looking for distant trail markers for short duration. BUT I am glad to have the brightness when I need it.
• Boost mode (180 lumens 75 min) Lumens – is great for such a small light. Nice feature at no additional weight. Tap the button twice in any white light mode and it turns on Boost mode for 12 second. Then it reverts back to the level you were on. Handy. I can be on dimmest setting and if I hear something off in the distance I can tap twice and boost will illuminate the distance for 12 seconds and then go back to prior dim setting. Very handy and energy efficient.
• Red light mode Is about the same on XP and XP2. Very useable light output. Very long life. Flashing is good. I have left the blinker on and left the light behind to guide me back at night on occasion. Its great

Headband, tilt angle, tilt angle clicks etc. All fine.

I hope all this blather helps!
=Cosmo

 

[Cosmo]

One quick follow up on Tactical lights vs Civilian lights.
If you prefer camping  in the Zombie zones and are preparing for Zombie attack a tactical light is what many Zombie zone campers prefer and recommend . The high priority is  blinding lumen numbers (like their life counted on blinding something)  and not so concerned with battery life (who cares when life is short). You may also find features like sharpened points on the nose of the light to  make a cookie cutter like pattern on zombies (which really pisses them off) when using your flash light on offense or defense. They also can be strapped to your Zombie bazooka etc. If you check your watch with some tactical lights you may need a few hours for your night vision to return – if it ever returns. There are other options like Zombie repellant squirting flashlights available too.


A general use light like the Tika XP is geared to someone like me who no longer camps in the Zombie zones and is just trying to find a useable light with a balance of long life on the low settings and adequate brightness on high. When I hear a noise at night I feel secure it’s a rabbit and not a Zombie.

I like the Tika XP but there are many other good choices available at a price point we can feel comfortable with.

 

[Vagabound]

...
My  headlamp  favorite (I have owned quite a few is this
Petzl - TIKKA XP Headlamp 180 Lumens http://amzn.to/2n2asXM 

The 2017 Tikka energy consumption of the TIKA XP
180 lumens 75 min run time (Short duration use, Switches back to origination level after 12 seconds to conserve battery life  - Flame thrower for distant objects)
120 lumens 2 hrs of battery life (Hiking down an unknown ROUGH trail where high output is needed)
40 lumens 8 hrs of battery life (Hiking down trails at night, working on the engine etc where bright light is needed)
5 lumens for 100 hrs of battery life (cooking, wandering around camp, going to the bathroom - general lighting looking for stuff in camp).

...

Cosmo, one of the most useful posts I've seen in quite a while. I really like the part that I left in your quote that correlates number of lumens to useful purpose. That's been one of the hardest things for me to understand as I've been shopping for lights. Thanks a lot for taking the time to write such a good post.

Oh, and the info on the zombies was a nice touch. Never know when that rabbit turns out not to be a rabbit.

Tom

 

[Cosmo]

Thank You!
 
If someone already owns a hand held flashlight and wants to use it as a head light there is this headband flashlight holder available for $7.50 http://amzn.to/2ltMzMr/http://amzn.to/2ltMzMrhttp://amzn.to/2ltMzMrOfhttp://amzn.to/2ltMzMrOfhttp://amzn.to/2ltMzMrOf Of course I keep one in my trailer, and at home and in the car...

 My   favorite hand held is the Fenix LD12 which funs on a single AA battery. As  reliable and amazing as flashlights have become I always have one  or two backups  available. The Fenix LD12 is my backup for my headlight which has never failed me    Comes in a few flavors. I am unfamiliar with the 14550 battery I only use AA batteries and AAA batteries but if you do use a 14500 you can get some high power out of this light.
 
2017 has
Turbo
    14500: 320 Lumens (1 hour - 443 feet/135 meters)
    Ni-MH: 150 Lumens (1 hour 45 min)
    Alkaline: 150 Lumens (50 minutes)
High
    14500: 70 Lumens (3 hour 30 min)
    Ni-MH: 70 Lumens (5 hour 40 min)
    Alkaline: 70 Lumens (3 hours)
Mid
    14500: 30 Lumens (11 hours)
    Ni-MH: 30 Lumens (13 hours)
    Alkaline: 30 Lumens (9 hour 40 min)
Low
    14500: 5 Lumens (50 hour)
    Ni-MH: 5 Lumens (60 hour)
    Alkaline: 5 Lumens (40 hour)

There is an optional diffuser available to use this light as an area light $8  http://amzn.to/2mUtujq

If you bicycle ride and are using a hand held this flashlight mount  $8.50 may be of interest. http://amzn.to/2mIHYWY It Velcro’s your flashlight to your handlebar on any  bicycle. I bicycle commute to work and carry a Fenix LD12 in my bag. If I am stuck working after dark the LD12 and this mount gets me home   This is no substitute for a full bicycle light but has saved me many many  times.  Fine for riding a bicycle below 11 MPH. The headband and handlebar mount add to the usability of my lights at little cost. It wont stay in a fixed position when  mountain biking (as is).  But in a pinch its better than nothing (if you ride gently). For road riding its perfect.  Since it detaches easily its not going to tempt anyone.

 
Finally the best for last. The Fenix E05 Stainless. Runs on one AAA battery. I like it best because its always with me. I use it more than any other light daily. It’s really a gem. If I am camping and only have the XP or the LD12 this is always my backup  http://amzn.to/2mUeKRM
On 1 AAA  (85 LUMENS 1 HOUR), (27 LU 4HR), (8 LU  14 HR)
 
 
When I hit the road for backpacking, or  vacation (I am not a full timer yet) I take the Tikka XP and these 2 lights with me and I am covered for any situation that I have met.  Of course with all the wonderful options available you may find something better to meet your needs.
  
You can see why I am still working to support my flashlight needs.
Its almost dark here I have to go now.
 
Regards
[size=small]=Cosmo[/size]

 

[RVTravel]

Nice light Cosmo : )