My solar finally failed me

Van Living Forum

Help Support Van Living Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

David

Well-known member
Joined
May 6, 2013
Messages
235
Reaction score
0
My Morningstar TS-45 charge controller seems to have died on me. Today is the first time I've ever had to charge my batteries by any means other than the sun.. I had to use a set of jumper cables to my starter battery and then hooked the panels directly to the Batteries.

I somewhat expect my charger has been flaky from the start. I've noticed for some time, that the input voltage from the panels did not match the output of the charger, but I assumed the charger was regulating the input.

Well it now has no output at all.. So I have to get a replacement somewhere but for the time being I have to manually keep an eye on my charge status..
 
I've heard Morning star has good customer support, I think.

That is a big controller for 200 watts of solar.

If you have the battery temps sensor connected, try removing it from the CC.

The panel input voltage will always be higher than the controller output voltage. That is the controller's job.
 
Nearly all name-brand controllers have a 5 year warranty so it might still be in warranty. Even if it isn't in warranty I would give them a call. There may be a work-around or they may offer to fix it even out of warranty. You've got nothing to lose and a lot to gain!
Bob
 
If MS denies you and you are searching for a new product. I've been eyeballing Ctek.

This product incorporates a solar MPPT charge controller as well as a DC to DC charger.

Meaning you ca run a wire to it from your alternator and it will charge your house batteries at uptp a 20 amp rate, and you can hook your solar panels to it and it will act as a MPPT charge controller too. Which should give you about 10% more on average than a pwm controller.


http://smartercharger.com/products/batterychargers/ctek-d250s-dual/

http://www.amazon.com/CTEK-D250S-DUAL-Battery-Charger/dp/B008TDAMTY

I've been eyeballing their 25 amp plug in charger, and nearly clicked 'place order' a few times now.
 
Well I'm sure it's under warranty, but sadly my receipt is in a box in FL and I'm in Texas. I'm not sure what's going on but I plugged it back in and it was charging, but it's not getting my batteries over 12.2-.3 volts. I haven't changed any settings but it seems to stop charging at 12.1-12.3 volts but it should be going up to 14.1 and did previously.

I have great sun right now and it's only putting out about 6 amps. It should be at least 12 amps witch the sun I have right now.
 
David, it probably has a way to adjust the float point, so it's possible that has drifted. Try changing the float point. It's also possible the meter has gone bad, double check the volts with a voltmeter

But much more likely it has broken. Do a google search on the manufacturer and find their phone number and give them a call, asking for tech support. You bought a good product so I'd expect they can diagnose it over the phone for you. At least you will know what is going on.
Bob
 
Ok it's pretty strange. As mentioned it pretty much out of the blue stopped charging but I plugged it in and it was stuck at 12.5 for a few days.. Yesterday it made it's way to 12.9 and now today it's up to 13.6 . It's like the charger is "working" it's way back to keeping the batteries at 14.2 for a full charge.

I just have no clue why it started this or what caused it, but it's certainly back to charging again.
 
Any chance you just depleted the batteries much further than normal?

Your wording leads me to believe you are misinformed about battery charging.

Achieving 14.2v is not an indicator that you have reached full charge.
Batteries, as they are charged, have their voltage rise, but once a certain voltage is achieved, does not mean they are fully charged.

The Bulk Phase of charging is pretty much when the battery is thirsty and can gobble up nearly any reasonable current you can feed it. During bulk phase, voltage will rise from anywhere from below 12.8 volts to the mid 14's. The alternator can be, if wired correctly, a very effective bulk charging tool.

Usually the bulk phase ends in the 80% charged range. Applying bulk currents into a battery at 80% charged or above will cause the voltage to exceed the safe voltage regulation setpoints. From 80%+, time and decreasing currents are needed to safely squeeze in the last 20%.
Anybody who claims they can fully 100% recharge a deeply cycled lead acid battery in a few hours or less is smoking crack or just plain ignorant of battery charging.

Do not believe charger documentation that says X hours to full. These claims are ridiculous as they usually do not even state what size battery nor how much it is depleted, nor even what they are considering "full".

Different chargers/controllers have different setpoints programmed in, but these setpoints are likely more influenced by lawyers and bean counters than engineers.

The acceptance/absorption voltage is when the charger/controller allows the voltage to climb no higher. The amps required to hold the battery up in this range will taper down in to the 1 amp or so range, depending on the size and health and construction/design of the battery. This can take 45 minutes to several hours of this constant voltage "acceptance/absorption" phase of battery charging. This stage is the most important for returning the battery to full energy density.

Most chargers, after a preset time limit, or when current required to hold 14.x volts drops below a certain threshhold, will at this point revert to float (13.2 to 13.6v)mode. They consider the battery fully charged at this point, but in reality it is more like 92 to 95% charged. Which is what the lawyers want, as it is safer to undercharge a battery than to over charge it, and lawyers are not concerned in the least about the long term health of your battery.

Now when controllers do not allow the user to select the acceptance voltage, and decide 14.2v is plenty, they are doing a disservice to their customers. Batteries like trojans absolutely need 14.8 volts acceptance. My USbattery wants a 15.3v "finishing" charge after a 14.45v acceptance charge lasting several hours.

My Flooded USbattery specific gravity will not return to 1.280 unless I program my solar acceptance voltage to 15.9v, and it takes 2+ hours to achieve this. This is achievable only after the acceptance/absorption phase has held the battery at 14.6v for a few hours. I need strong sun and enough time to do it.

My recent Solar setpoints are 14.6v acceptance and 14.7v float. The amps required to hold a 14.7 float after several hours at 14.6v is about 0.3 amps. One might think these setpoints are too high and I am overcharging the battery, yet after 2 weeks of doing this, and enough sunlight to hold these setpoints for a few hours daily, my temp compensated hydrometer reveals Specific gravity readings in the poor to fair category. 1.220 to 1.250. Meaning I was not fully charging the battery daily despite the high voltage settings and the soothing flashing green light.

Every two weeks I have to reset my acceptance and float voltages to the high 15's to return specific gravity af all cells to the 1.280 baseline. The battery after this equilization/ intentional overcharge, performs much better the first few nights. I judge this by voltage held for amp hours removed, and have the tools to accurately measure this.

One cannot test the Specific gravity on AGM batteries, so one cannot really see how their charging regimen is affecting their battery. If the charging regimen is poor, the owner finds their pants around their ankles at some point.


The Gist of all of this is, is that voltage is a poor indicator of state of charge.
A blinking green light does not mean the battery is indeed fully charged.

Achieving 14.2v does not mean a battery is fully charged. Holding 14.2v for 6 hours might not get the battery to full charge.

Battery longevity is directly related to how well the battery is returned to a true 100% full charge ( or as near as possible) every 7 to 14 days, when cycled daily, and how well the user can actually achieve that. The more often 100% is achieved, the better.

The battery manufacturer has a charging regimen to best return their batteries to maximum energy density. This info is not always easy to find. I will not buy a battery unless I can find this info.

They will usually list a minimum and perhaps maximum bulk current, an acceptance voltage, perhaps a duration at acceptance voltage, then a float voltage. Very few chargers/controllers out there will meet these recommendations. They are hamstrung by the lawyers and likely the bean counters too, and rely on their savvy marketing department and customer's ignorance about proper battery charging, to sell products.

Also the old wives tales of battery charging are still espoused and this is usually the "trickle charging is best" mentality. Low and slow( trickle) might be the least damaging way to fully charge a battery if one has several days to allow the battery voltage to slowly climb, but the fact is that in actual application, the battery voltage needs to climb to the mid 14's and be held there for several hours to squeeze in all the amps the battery can take, and a 13.6v "trickle" charger will never do this.

Some batteries, like some AGM's, require a minimum bulk current be met, meaning if you just do grandpa's recommended "trickle" charge on them, it is likely the best way of killing a battery short of depleting it fully and allowing it to freeze, or just taking a shotgun to it.

Batteries are not just ubiquitous as to their charging requirements. Just Any charging source is not going to ensure the battery gets fully and properly recharged, but ANY charging source, is better than NO charging source, on a depleted battery.

Proper Recharging a cycleable battery on a daily basis is much, much different than what a starting battery requires to hold it near full charge, where it was designed to live and what vehicular charging systems are designed to do from the factory.

The better one can meet the manufacturer specified charging regimen on a deeply cycled battery, the better the battery will perform and the longer it can perform for. It is not always easy to find or meet these charging specifics, but ignorance of them is akin to shooting oneself in one's foot.

Now if one cannot be bothered with going through the effort of attempting to meet the battery manufacturer charging recommendations, then they have to accept that they will not get the lifespan expected from the battery. After all it's only money, and spending more than the battery costs just to charge it correctly, well one must consider the return on investment, and put a price on their time and stress on dealing with the correct charging of their batteries.

Some can't be bothered. Ignorance can be bliss, until one awakes to a warm fridge or an inverter alarm, and only then decides that the battery was perhaps not getting charged correctly and now cannot hold enough electricity to meet their overnight needs.

So at this point the battery user gets a new battery and treats it the same, or they try to treat it better.

Those in the latter category should read all they can about proper battery charging. Those in the former category should not espouse their methods or ignorance or prolong the old wives tales of Lead Acid Battery charging.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_the_lead_acid_battery
 
The battery was very depleted, but it was because it wasn't getting proper charge for about 3 days. I still do not know why it stopped charging, but for now it's working again.
 
So, you have a trimetric battery monitor counting solar current.
Are you saying that this was not reading any amperage from solar controller into batteries?

Was there even a small shadow passing across yous panel(s) all day?

I once took my batteries well down below 50%, and my solar was feeding them 13.5 amps at high noon, and the voltage was still in the mid to upper 11's after the few hours it took to get to solar noon.

Can't just look at voltage.

If indeed your controller just took a break for a couple days, I'd suspect a loose connection or perhaps a unit operating at such high ambient temps it took a break.
 
SternWake said:
So, you have a trimetric battery monitor counting solar current.
Are you saying that this was not reading any amperage from solar controller into batteries?

Was there even a small shadow passing across yous panel(s) all day?

I once took my batteries well down below 50%, and my solar was feeding them 13.5 amps at high noon, and the voltage was still in the mid to upper 11's after the few hours it took to get to solar noon.

Can't just look at voltage.

If indeed your controller just took a break for a couple days, I'd suspect a loose connection or perhaps a unit operating at such high ambient temps it took a break.

I actually have still not figured out why it stopped charging, for those few days. All the wires were secure so I dunno what caused it, but it's been charging fine every since. Maybe it did get to hot and reset it's self or something.

One thing I will say, is now that I've made it to New Mexico, it's amazing how much faster I get charged up vs when I was in Texas. In central Texas there was often a decent amount of cloud cover, here so far I've yet to see much of any clouds.

Else where I always made sure to be a little conservative in my power usage, doing things like unplugging my laptop when it was full charge or using my tablet over the laptop if I was just browsing the net.

Here it's a major difference in how much faster my batteries get charged back up. In Texas sometime it might take two days to get my self back from 70% or so if I had overcast. Here I've dipped to 79% one night and was back to 100% well before the end of the day.

I suspect with the right set up you could run a house off solar here, I assume AZ is likely the same.
 
You have my sympathy. Intermittent problems are the WORST. They never seem to be there when someone is trying to diagnose exactly what's gone wrong. I hate dealing with them.

I'm curious. These figures you're quoting - 70%, 79%, 100% - where exactly are you getting them from? Either you didn't say how you monitor your batteries, or I just flat out missed it when I read your posts.

Regards
John
 
Optimistic Paranoid said:
You have my sympathy. Intermittent problems are the WORST. They never seem to be there when someone is trying to diagnose exactly what's gone wrong. I hate dealing with them.

I'm curious. These figures you're quoting - 70%, 79%, 100% - where exactly are you getting them from? Either you didn't say how you monitor your batteries, or I just flat out missed it when I read your posts.

Regards
John

My meter readings on how fully charged the batteries are.
 
David said:
My meter readings on how fully charged the batteries are.

Ok, but I was curious what kind of meter you were reading. A Trimetric Battery Monitor? A digital mult-meter? Something else?

Regards
John
 
Optimistic Paranoid said:
Ok, but I was curious what kind of meter you were reading. A Trimetric Battery Monitor? A digital mult-meter? Something else?

Regards
John

The Trimetric Battery Monitor, but it resets what it thinks is 100% if you disconnect the power to it. Meaning if you disconnect it while the batteries are at 80% the meter think it's at 100% until the batteries actually take a full charge.

This threw me off because I had disconnected the batteries to fix something and the meter reset and was reading 100-80% when it was really down to under 50% due the the charger not charging.


Optimistic Paranoid said:
Ok, but I was curious what kind of meter you were reading. A Trimetric Battery Monitor? A digital mult-meter? Something else?

Regards
John

The Trimetric Battery Monitor, but it resets what it thinks is 100% if you disconnect the power to it. Meaning if you disconnect it while the batteries are at 80% the meter think it's at 100% until the batteries actually take a full charge.

This threw me off because I had disconnected the batteries to fix something and the meter reset and was reading 100-80% when it was really down to under 50% due the the charger not charging, so I didn't realize I had drained them so low.
 
Hi all, first post here. For Bob and Stern, I noticed in the link that it only specifies lead-acid battery use. Also, it looks like this is a "solar secondary" system (I could be reading it wrong). If so, does it matter? Can I use this controller and treat it as two separate but conjoined systems? (Alt + Solar, ie. left leg, right leg?) I also want to say thank you to the community, I'm new but I love it here. Ya'll are my kinda people! I can't wait to read Bob's book! Cheers...
 
PoK,

I am not understanding your question completely.

You can run different charging sources at the same time. The charging sources will act together until a certain voltage is reached, on one of the chargers, then it will drop out.

Usually in this range the batteries are in the 80%+ range anyway and more than one charger is not needed.

There is no need to Pick which charging source you have to use, or turn of one to turn on the other. If the batteries are low enough you can have several sources going. Often my Solar contributes to alternator current, and often my solar will contribute to Schumacher battery current. I've even had all three going at once.

Battery University has a different section for Lithium batteries.
 
Top