My first van almost broke me. Is this one too good to be true??

[RaftandSki]

Hello everyone,

I've been lurking on this forum for almost a year. The community here seems genuine and very helpful. I am excited to make my first post! Skip the next paragraph if you want me to get to the point.

I love my seasonal work as a raft guide and ski instructor. So before this whitewater season (3 months ago) I bought a 4x4 ambulance that I was planning on living in for many years. Well.... .. things haven't quite worked out. I thought i made a good decision by taking it to the Ford dealer for inspection. It was a poor decision. I did my conversion but the tranny went out. I paid to have it rebuilt. Now the engine needs a few grand that I don't have. I just sold it to an informed buyer after losing ~5k in the deal. BUT this experience taught me how much I will love the mobile lifestyle. You men and women are brilliant! Ha. Chasing whitewater, powder, and good friends is exactly how I want to spend my time.

So after losing out on my first van I really need to nail this one.

I just found a seemingly great ad on Craigslist for $11k (the absolute top of my budget). It's a 1993 4x4 box truck with only 33k miles on it. 4 speed e40d tranny. Ford 460. Owner claims both tranny and engine are original. No rust according to CL. The box is already insulated with a toilet and water tanks. This is helpful as I don't know of a good spot to do my build. I am going to take it to two different mechanics but I need some opinions from you. A couple questions:

Does the $11k price seem ridiculously low for 33k miles? It's a 93 but that still seems too low. I have zero knowledge on purchasing box trucks but I've found box trucks for more money, less miles, and no 4x4. My mind keeps thinking the Ford dealer failed me in their inspection. They didn't catch the tranny or the cylinder issues. Since this seems like such low miles are there additional tests that I should have them do to ease my mind? Compression tests, block tests, is there a tranny test? What about the 4x4 system?

The box truck offers me room for a bathroom. But is there anything I need to be aware of specific to purchasing a box van? This one does have access to the box from cab.

The 4 speed tranny. I know I'm going to get less mpg with a 4 speed and a 460. I am worried about the mpg cuz I would like to be able to travel easily and cheaply. But I'm more concerned about the gearing. With a 4 speed should I be able to cruise at 65-70mph? I've been researching as much as I can and it seems that the gearing of these box trucks can be a big problem. The owner doesn't know the gearing and I don't know If this is a deal-breaker. How expensive is it to regear a tranny?

Fords 1993 460. I've heard many great things about this engine. Except it's fuel economy. What are the impressions from vandwellers? I want the power for hauling a small motorcycle and raft and as much gear as I need. But idk if it's worth settling for such a gas guzzler. Thoughts?


I've convinced myself that I need 4x4. As I'm sure you know, 4x4 greatly limits the available vehicles. If I could consider 2wd then I would restart my entire search. But I need to access free blm sites that are often on bumpy and possibly flooded roads. Is there a cheaper option (wheel locks?) to access the boondocks? Do some of you just make the 2wd work a lil harder?


I really appreciate everyone's opinions! I've learned a lot before this post and I hope I get it right this time.

 

[TALLMAN]

Just got a holiday rambler endeavor with 96 ford 450, maybe 460 engine, needed new radiator. tires looked good but were 9 years old and cracked first time on the road, so had to be replaced.. My brother and I bought a 96 holiday rambler endeavor 36 ft for 11,000..its loaded, even leather ceilings. Needed new fuel pump for generator and water pump for house water but so far am pretty happy. But no long trips yet. It had 80,000 miles on it. Seems like a better idea to go for used RV, if you really look some good deals out there.

 

[light trip]

Welcome, and sorry to hear you had such bad luck.

Don't know about the price but, 33k miles is ridiculously low for any vehicle more then twenty years old.

You can ask lots of questions.

Is this person the original owner?
How long have they owned it?
What repairs have they done?
Run it through car fax

Check the brake and clutch peddles. Something with truly low miles will have very little ware on the rubber. Although the rubber pads on the peddles could have been replaced, if they're worn to the metal, it likely has many more miles on it.

Pull the engine dip stick, does the oil look clean and clear? Pull the oil fill, clean or lot of crud or worse white or milky foam would mean water in the oil. Water level in the battery? Is the power steering pump leaking? Is it full? Is the master cylinder full? Is it leaking? If it has a hydraulic clutch, check the clutch master cylinder for leaks and if it's full. Hold your foot on the brake for at least 30 seconds with the engine running. It should not sink to the floor. Next pump the brake, the peddle should return to the some position after 10 or 12 pumps.

Look carefully in the engine compartment. Are there leaks? Are the belts good? Squeeze the hoses, do the have a soft spot that may burst, or firm and bounce back? Look at where the fenders bolt to the truck, have they been replaced? Signs of an accident. Same with the doors and hangers. Tap and knock on the body listening for change wear they may be body filler. Is there paint over lapping onto the weather stripping, signs it's been painted. Crawl underneath, check for signs of rust, transmission leaks, engine leaks, rear end leaks.

Check under the dash, does it look like someone as re-wired stuff? Many trucks this old have had a lot of people playing with the wiring. Does if have a hitch? If it does, what kind of trailer did it pull? How hard to the truck work. Are the tires wearing evenly?

Anything this old will likely need a master cylinder, caliber and wheel cylinder. If the master
cylinder has leaked the brake booster will also need to be replaced. Anything rubber on something this old would be suspect.

Check everything, lights, high beam, horn, turn signals, brake lights, backup lights, wipers, radio, cargo lights, hazards (4 way). Anything electrical that doesn't work may be as simple as a bulb or fuse, something the owner should fix. If not, it may be more serious.

Driving on a slight, long downhill, if you take your foot off the gas, the truck should maintain speed. If it picks up speed on a slight incline the engine may have low compression. That would be another sign of higher miles.

Trust your gut, does the person selling it seem sincere? Do have have to think about the answers they're giving? Or try to steer you away from the true answer?

Just stuff off the top of my head.

You may feel like you need four wheel drive, but remember it's more that can go wrong and more to fix. And as my wife would say, 4x4 just means you're further back in the boonies when you get stuck. I'd rather have two wheel drive and a come-along. Ford 460 engines are absolute pigs when it come to MPG. I doubt you will ever even get close to 10 MPG, maybe 5 or 6.

 

[user 423]

A '93 odometer probably only goes up to 99,999 so it may have flipped. Can he prove it's only 33K? Even if it is, that's only 1600 miles per year and that means it has sat around a lot unused. That can be hard on a vehicle if it's not stored properly in the winter or run regularly. If he's not the original owner, then he wouldn't know how it was kept.

...and welcome to the forum!

 

[ZOFCHAK]

One thing you might want to check into is insurance. If the box truck is over a certain carrying capacity it may have to be registered, inspected and insured as a commercial vehicle which can get expensive in some states.

Personally, I would be very leery about spending 11k on a 20+ year old box truck. My guess is you would be getting 8-9 mpg with 4x4 and the 460, so if you are driving some distance that can add up fast. Also you may want to consider the size of the box truck and the tree canopies where you will be traveling. Will it fit down some of these back roads that you will be traveling?

As for the 4x4 I don't know where you will be traveling, but if its just the occasional mud you'll be encountering you may be better off with a 4x2 and a good winch. A 2 wheel drive truck and a winch will get you out of trouble that will leave even the best 4x4 stranded.

 

[akrvbob]

Welcome, it sounds to me like you have chosen a wonderful life!! Getting paid to do things you love and living the free, mobile life. WOW!!

Have you considered a 4x4 pickup and a small camper? I think that would be a much better choice for you. There are lots of them around and all the conversion is done. $11,000 should buy you a pretty good one.

I know how tempting the 4x4 box truck is but I think that is a ridiculous price. The 460 is a very good engine but it will eat you alive in gas!!! My box truck with Chevy 350 got 5-7 mpg and yours might be less! They are bricks going down the road.

I agree with you, for a ski instructor 4x4 isn't optional, it's a necessity. But not to get around the desert a 2x4 van with a locker in the rear and tires aired down will do quite well.
Bob

 

[Fearnoevil]

Miles don't mean everything by a long shot, it's MORE THAN 20 YEARS OLD, so imo $11k isn't a fantastic deal by any means. If you're willing to take your time and really shop around (includes eBay), there may be a 100 good to great deals within a 100 mile radius. So especially if you're not too experienced in buying used vehicles, take your time, don't be in too much of a hurry cuz IMO that's the key to getting a really good deal (that and having it checked by a good mechanic BEFORE you close the deal ;?). Course always an exception to the rule, in my case I saw an incredible deal on Craigslist, drove 125 miles to look at her,took it for a spin, and closed the deal all in the same day, lol. I ended up with a 2004 Ford E450 transit van (250k miles though, but super well maintained) for $3k.

I'll bet you could get a better deal than the one you're thinking of for close to $6-8k if you shop around. But bottom line, you gotta be comfortable and happy with your choice, so if the one you're looking at really pops your cork (and checks out with your mechanic ;?) then go for it, either way good luck dude and may the powder always be deep and dry

"The sensual caress of waist deep cold smoke, glory in skiing virgin snow, in being the first to mark the powder with the signature of their run." Tim Cahill

 

[RaftandSki]

I have decided to pass on the 33k mile box truck. Thanks mostly to your responses and additional research.

Bob, the suggestion of a truck camper has really increased my possibilities!! Awesome Particularly because I really want 4wd. Not so much for accessing the boonies (as I've been reading about accessories that make 2wd + clearance quite capable) but for the peace-of-mind during winter months.

This post is going to change the topic of this thread so maybe I should just create a new one. I'll research the answers to all my questions but I'd also love your opinions! Anyway... I really loved living in a van and I'm thinking a TC could be equally awesome but let me explain my needs:

Winter mountain driving and living
Hold a decent amount of solar panels. Ideally I'd like to run an xbox but that's a luxury.
Ability to haul a smallish(650 max) motorcycle without a trailer.
Room for a raft (rolled up its about 3"x4"). I'm thinking it could fit into the cab of a ext. truck. The van would be an advantage cuz I might be able to strap an inflated raft to the roof. I'm worried the solar panels would get in the way and so I couldn't fit it atop a TC.
Access to the living area from the cab.
The better the mpg the happier il be... But I don't have a set number.
Cooking inside

So those are the necessities. I think a van fits perfectly and I loved living in one. But I could see a TC being equally awesome. My main concerns with a TC are:

Insulation. I have very limited carpentry experience yet I was able to gut and insulate my hightop van walls with 2.25' of polyiso foil-faced foam board and the ceiling with 3' for the cold Rocky Mountain nights. How hard would it be to insulate a TC? I worry that all the interior design/appliances would make it quite difficult to insulate a TC as extensively. Would I have to gut the TC prior to insulating? This would negate the advantage of the TC already being converted.

The layout. I've never been in a TC. But I loved being able to gut the van and design the layout optimally. Are TCs already pretty well designed for fulltiming? Is there anything I'll definitely want to remove/replace?

Adding solar. Any more difficult than with a van? Do the TC roofs support such things?

Accessing the living area. I'll be able to getaway with living in my vehicle but it'd be nice if it wasn't quite as obvious.

I have no experience buying vehicles. Some thoughts:

How to determine the structural integrity of the TC? Leaks.... Take it to the car wash? But... What if the water is sitting in the walls?

The age of the TC? Are they much stronger now or long ago?

Buying a "package". I've seen some truck+TC offerings but my thought is the trucks in worse shape from hauling a TC.

Stress of a TC on a truck. Should I aim for a 250/2500 or what's the deal here? MPG?

Basically, how much should I be looking to pay for a TC?

Thank you all so much for the help. I don't expect answers to every question and I will be doing much research on my own. You guys are exceptional!

 

[akrvbob]

To me the overriding consideration is the mountain winter driving. You MUST have true 4x4. I lived in Anchorage AK for 45 years and I wouldn't even consider a 2x4 van. I think a AWD mini van would be too small for you and that only leaves a 4x4 pickup and camper.

You can carry a motorcycle up front by installing a receiver but carrying all that weight up front is going to do damage to your front end long-term. Are you just going to drag it around all winter? I don't think that is practical. You'd have to put it in storage. If so than putting it on a bike carrier on back is plausible if you camp in one spot long enough to unload it. Otherwise getting in and out of the camper will be a nightmare.

No problem putting all the solar you need on a TC.

For a single person TCs are very comfortable and plenty of room. I'd get at least a supercab and maybe even a crew cab. No problem with the raft.

DO NOT GET ANYTHING LESS THAN A 250/2500! Preferably get a 350/3500.
Bob

 

[VanLifeCrisis]

Like rvs, most TC are already insulated unless you buy some barebones deal. unless you want to make your own, a pass thru to cab isnt happening but you wont be stealth anyway like a van. they can see the camper . the motorcycle is the biggest hurtle i think.