Model Solar Electric Power Systems for newbies

[eDJ_]

I haven't seen this question asked before, but there are bunches of us who are with little knowledge or experience with this stuff.  It may be nice to have some of the most experienced here to answer this question
for the newbies.

Imagine you are going to take a Van, say this one below for instance, and outfit if for a beginner,  an intermediate Van dweller, and an Advanced Van dweller. 

Most of the Newbies have heard about the Harbor Freight "Kit" that is set and ready to go,
just add Batteries.  Most know that Harbor Freight publishes 20% off coupons that work
on most things in the store.

But if you were wanting to do better than that as a Solar Engineer,  how would you fit a low end beginners
Van,  an intermediate Van dwellers Van,  and an  Advanced dwellers Van.

Understand it may be beneficial to the thread to agree on some Power levels that each of these three
categories would need.  What sort of equipment the power budget (in terms of available power not money)
and would provide for.  This may at the newbie level use one 12 volt deep cycle and move into dual 6vdc golf cart batteries, and on from there specifying the best brands for the design parameters.

I've PM'ed with others on the board who have inquired about this and if anyone will be doing a lecture about this stuff at the RTR for the newbies.   If it could be done it would be a good opportunity for those who wish
to produce Youtube tutorials to video the presentations so these can be pointed to when this redundant question arises again. (and again)

What I'm seeing in my minds eye is just the solar and the house battery. It may be worthwhile to detail a little bit about what would be necessary to disconnect the Solar from the house battery and switch to the Van's
alternator to charge the house battery while on the road or in times of constant rain.  Thus having the duplicity of the Van's charging system and the Solar when able.

So does anyone want to tackle this ?   Give a menu of parts, sources, and estimated prices ?  (and can you add anything to this question that should be addressed ?)

 

[jimindenver]

I would say a beginner system is a kit or set of basic components that someone else said should be enough. Intermediate would be someone that has at least worked out their needs and advanced would be knowing their needs as well as taking the time to study up on solar, the different components and how they relate to each other in a effort to meet their needs the best way possible.

Notice there are no numbers or list of components? That's because a advanced user may know they only need a basic system.

As for that van. I would go for at least a large 400+ watt panel, 30 amp controller and enough battery to cover you in the event of bad weather for a number of days. Knowing me I'd want to double it if it would fit but we use a lot of power too.

Solar just isn't a one size fits all thing.

 

[Canine]

I would forget the HF kit if I were you.I tried to give a bunch (18)of the panels away on this forum.Ended up taking them to a local charity.I used them as part of my system for about 5 years and by the time I got rid of them,the output was probably less than 50% of the rating.There are plenty of good panels out there for $1 a watt or a little more.

 

[highdesertranger]

I would also forget the HF kit, I would go with a Renogy kit. for how many watts that all depends on your battery(s) and your battery depends on what you plan to run, so start there. highdesertranger

 

[eDJ_]

What I'm trying to get at is for those with the know how with Solar and all the equipment necessary,  that they
could take a newbie to a store where they sell all of this stuff (assuming one store had it all) and pick out a system
for the beginner, specifying each part like a menu.

The way harbor has their little kit set up.  (only with better stuff)

And then do the same for an intermediate Van traveler.

And then for the more advanced full timers who just still don't know that much about solar.

This would be something that they could replicate. 

Each of these three levels would be outfits that would be known to work dependably with solid
components that have a demonstrated track record. 

The newbie, intermediate, and advanced Van dweller would of course be paying for the materials,
the experienced mentor would just be using his/her knowledge to help make the selections for them.

Thanks and a tip of the hat to jimindenver, Bob Dickerson, and highdesertranger for the starters.  

Thanks in advance to any takers who would want to tackle this.

 

[highdesertranger]

ok let me try to explain this a little better. your asking for an answer without knowing what we are adding up.
x + y = ?.
were x = ah/day
y = batt size
? = best system.
what I am trying to say is if x = 25 ah/day or x = 100 ah/day, you might have two totally different systems.
same with y = 50 ah batt or y = 200 ah batt. again same as above.
can you give us a least an estimate of what we are trying to accomplish? are we looking for something in the 50 watt range, 100 watt, 200 watt, 400 watt, more? highdesertranger

 

[jimindenver]

That's why I say the only difference between a beginner and a advanced user is knowledge. 200w may be enough for either but the knowledgeable user knows it.

There are kits by Renogy, Eco-worthy, windynation and others that can fit your needs if you understand them. They can be improved on but as they are, they are functional.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

...
Each of these three levels would be outfits that would be known to work dependably with solid
components that have a demonstrated track record. 

The newbie, intermediate, and advanced Van dweller would of course be paying for the materials,
the experienced mentor would just be using his/her knowledge to help make the selections for them.

Your starting out backwards.  In engineering, we always start with a needs analysis:  what problem are you trying to solve.  You are asking for a solution to a problem that hasn't been defined (as HDR pointed out).

The needed solar is going to be different for someone that only needs to run a ceiling fan, a three way frig, and some LED lights from someone who runs a compressor frig, a CPAP machine, a RV furnace, a TV and DVD player, and a 1000 watt amplifier.  Location also makes a difference: someone wintering in Vancouver, BC will need more solar than someone who winters in Baja, Mexico.

Unfortunately, solar in van-dwelling is not a 'one size fits all' technology.  IMHO it is better to tell us what your needs are and rely on those who have done it to direct you to a good solution - for you.  Lots of smart people here who have gone through the learning curve.

-- Spiff

 

[jimindenver]

One thing to try is look at the users here and see what solar they have and what they do with it. I bet you can find someone that uses close to the same as you would from those that use just the minimum and people like me that go all out.

Bob has listed a general system that seems to provide for a great number of van dwellers. Tuning a system for you specifically requires you to understand what you need to tune it to.

 

[eDJ_]

Fair enough

I'll shop around and come up with a "wish list" for the three categories and add some extra to the budget in order to pad it some for the beginners and intermediate.   

I agree that some people could be efficient enough to live in the advanced category with the supply of the intermediate user. 

I guess I was mistakenly looking at  this as a solar power plant similar to gasoline generators putting out
1kw, 2kw, or 3kw, and the user keep his/her appliances within the limits of the rated power available.
I know Double E's get into it with Electricians over this type of question all the time.  (design for what is there now opposed to design for what is there and allowing some room for future expansion). 

I see the newbie/beginner using a well insulated Ice Chest where a small efficient compressor refrigerator would
be in the intermediate Van dweller's rig.  The Advanced user may have a larger refrigerator with the capacity
for making ice in a larger freezer compartment.

A newbie/beginner would have a 12vdc water pump that would supply cold water to their kitchen sink.  The
intermediate may have a heated water supplied by that a pair of 12vdc pump(s) may supply. (where the water heater may be 12vdc, shore power 115 vac, or propane.

Miscellaneous appliances may be a 4 cup automatic drip coffee maker 115 vac/12vdc, electric skillet, crock pot, electric hand mixer or immersion mixer, small food processor, blender, toaster, electric heating blanket,
electric fan, small air conditioner, TV, Radio/boombox, computer, dehumidifier, and any other amenity that could be used by any of these three classes of users.  I know all of these appliances will use different watts of power between models and brands. 

I am looking on the newbie/beginner as a "week end warrior" who may take some vacation time to go on the road for a few extended trips.   The intermediate may be someone displaced in their work and on the road
looking for a better economic climate and or taking some time to sort things out.  Likewise for those who have broken up in a relationship. 

The advanced are retired or capable of supporting themselves while living full time and having the greatest need of power for a collection of appliances to assist them in their living in comfort. 

It would be nice if any of this could be designed to be modular where an extra panel could be added without
overloading a system.  Again that will be for those with experience and expertise on this matter to determine.

 

[akrvbob]

You're looking for simple pat answers and it's just not possible. Here it is as simple as I can make it:

1) Buy all the solar you can afford.

2) For most people:

-- 100 watts is minimum for very light power users.
-- 200 watts is acceptable for most vandwellers
-- 300-400 watts for heavy power users
-- 500 watts minimum for RVs

3) Decide if you want to spend the time and money to learn to build your own system and if you want components that are plenty good enough, or want to buy the best. If not buy a Renogy Kit, it has a minimum learning curve and is plenty good enough. If yes ask for advice here.

That's as simple as I can make it.
Bob

 

[eDJ_]

Thanks Bob.   If there were a Solar Sticky,  I'd nominate your post #11  for it. 

Because for those who know nothing about this stuff  we/they could read and read
and get more and more confused.

Some last question if you would indulge it Bob ?   Tying the alternator of the Van to the
house batteries when there is a Solar Panel kit charging them too.  How would that
be facilitated ?  Where would the cut off from the panels be located ?   And what equipment
would be necessary between the house battery(ies) and the alternator ?

And,  If one was to install a larger capacity alternator on the Van,  what should they
consider ?   From what I've read here so far the vehicle alternator can recharge batteries
more quickly than the Solar Panel(s).  

I'm wondering where if a person is going to be traveling daily or on the 2-2-2 plan, and charging
a couple Trojan golf cart batteries if solar would really necessary.  Or if Solar would best benefit
those who are going to sit static in a boondocking camp ?  

Recently TMG51 posted a set of photos in "As Seen on the Road"  where a Guy is using a shuttle bus
towing a horse trailer.  The trailer seems to be a combination utility wagon and power house.  I think that
owner has cobbled together a very interesting concept for those dedicated to boondocking and full time traveling.

https://vanlivingforum.com/Thread-Here-s-a-nifty-rig-I-saw

 

[jimindenver]

Light, medium and heavy power users are much easier to define than beginner and advanced.

 

[Sabatical]

To add a visual aspect to this question maybe there could be "open house" opportunities for those able to travel to the RTR. For those that can't make it, maybe Bob plus James and Kyndal could do a video walk through for this specific topic. My thought is that most of us are far better visual learners and a person looking to set up a system can hone in on a specific setup in the video that best fits thier expected needs and replay that part over and over while they do research on the specific parts.
I would be happy to open my rig up for that and explain our setup. I'll bet others would be willing as well. The RTR would allow you to showcase a broad spectrum of vehicles, needs, and budgets.

 

[jimindenver]

I think along with the nuts and bolts there is a connection between what we have and what we do with the power it produces.

 

[Matlock]

Agreed......

A visual ... ahem, a CLEAR visual is always better than a dictionary. IMHO.
That said, Sabatical's suggestion with a side by side by side comparison would make everything clear to even the newest
of Noob's to Solar.
It's easy to get $1K + tied up in solar components and still have the wrong batteries or the wrong controller or charger, etc.
Show and tell works well and can get questions answered quickly.

 

[eDJ_]

Excellent points and well taken.    

Lite, medium, and heay users may make more sense that  "beginner/noob", "intermediate", and "advanced".

The show and tell of the small, medium, and large systems with xeroxed hand outs listing a menu of what components/model number are used in the system, and what can realistically be expected
of them would be welcome by the less experienced.  Having the foresight to make videos of this
presentation at RTR would save a lot of future explanation (and typing) so it would likely be a worthwhile
effort for everyone. 

There would be time for planning to do this before RTR and the hand out papers could be scanned and posted here  perhaps in a sticky.  I'm sure it would be something members here could tell others that they meet in the camp grounds or on the road who may have questions.  Just point them to CRVL for this information.

I still want say how I like that Guy's Solar Horse Trailer.  I could see it set up as a Power house, bath house,
storage utility & propane tank hauler when boondocking for an extended period of time as it would free up valuable room in ones Van, Shuttle Bus, Pick Up Truck Camper, or Schoolie. (it may also allow one to operate with a smaller lighter Vehicle.  It may also open the possibilities for less expensive vehicles that may not normally be considered due to size or weight capacity etc)  If the owner wanted to go touring while relying on Gyms or Truck Stops for bath/restroom facilities without requiring so much house battery power, then  he could just put the trailer in a parking facility until he returned.  (this could be like having a portable "tiny home" with you, where the trailer carries much of the off grid capability making the tow vehicle potentially more stealthy)

 

[Ken in Anaheim]

I really don't want to muddy the waters here.....but....I'd also like to see included some info on generator/battery systems.  How often do you need to run the genny (assume the Honda 2000i) . I know you could just fire it up if you wanted to use  a microwave and then shut it off but what about a system for led lites, computer, maybe a frig/freezer, radio, phone charger etc. + the occasional microwave usage ??
   How many batteries could the genny charge, how long would it take, would it actually be cheaper (better?) than a solar panel ?
That kind of stuff. 
   I know it's like asking, "How long is a piece of rope" but initially here we're just spit-balling and generalizing.......(you know, like the gov't. does with its labor statistics and economic reports).
KinA