Massachusetts

[IanC]

There is a website that lists the salaries of all public employees in Massachusetts, by name. Being bored, I wondered what the state police make.  What an eye opener.  While it's not the average, I saw one guy who made 110,000 in overtime alone, for a total of 260,000, and there are plenty more with very high numbers.  It's just an accepted fact that the police in Mass load up on overtime right before retirement to boost their pensions. When the Boston marathon bombing happened, so many state troopers poured into Boston from all over the state that they didn't know where to park them all.  That's because the pay rate is higher if there's a weapon involved. 

The fire department in Boston had a major scandal when 90% of them were retiring on disability (a higher rate).  Now I know who owns all those Class A's.

I am in no way anti-police, in fact the opposite, but come on already.  The primary duty of the state police in Mass is to give out speeding tickets. On the 10 mile drive to work each day I used to see a minimum of 3 cruisers parked along the highway and 9 times out of 10 they were stopping young people while a hundred other cars sped by. So, in fact they are taking the weekly paychecks of McDonalds workers to fund their own salaries.  Considering that kids pay close to $2,000 a year in insurance in that area and a speeding ticket will send their rate up, it just doesn't seem right.

I know, I know "don't speed in the first place", but we all do/did and we weren't raked over the coals for it.  The cost of housing and keeping a vehicle on the road is so high that no wonder they can't afford to move out of the basement.

I honestly don't care if I ever go back to Mass

 

[vtwinkicker]

I personally know of two firemen with pensions of 110k and 195k per year, also a government employee getting 10k per month tax free.

I'm not knocking them either. Power to them for taking advantage of the system as it is. However I also don't think its right. Your pension shouldn't be more than your annual salary was while working, in my opinion.

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

I've always thought the Mass State Police were really reasonable when it came to pulling people over. I've been stopped 3 times in my life by them and never got a ticket, once going 85. New Hampshire state police are much more aggressive, they're patrolling and pulling over up and down the highways 7 days a week. In the summer they'll have a few cars doing radar checks and about 20 other cars up a few miles at a rest area that do the pulling over during Holiday weekends in the summer.

As far as the overtime and pension stuff, I don't agree that the system that allows them to do so should be there, but at the end of the day they're human and if doing so is perfectly legal I suppose I'd do the same.

And i've been out of Mass since September and don't ever want to go back. Wish i left ten years sooner. The state nails you to the wall every which way you turn. It's def a six figure state, if you're not making six figures you're not living very comfortably. Heck, even 100k a year in and around Boston isn't enough, especially if you have a family.

 

[IanC]

[quote pid='274787' dateline='1490410977']

And i've been out of Mass since September and don't ever want to go back.  Wish i left ten years sooner.  The state nails you to the wall every which way you turn.  It's def a six figure state, if you're not making six figures you're not living very comfortably.  Heck, even 100k a year in and around Boston isn't enough, especially if you have a family.
[/quote]

The problem with the whole system is that while all these people are working every angle to take as much from the state coffers, many others are retiring on a $1,200 S.S. check after working 45 years.  Call me a socialist, but in my opinion a mechanic is as important as a cop, is as important as a taxi driver, is as important as a shoe repair guy or the guy delivering the heating oil to society. I had a neighbor with a small construction business is still climbing on roofs at 73 because he can't afford to retire, while the princes of society, who retire after 25 years and take their money out of state to Florida and the Carolinas are bleeding the state dry while the working poor get poorer and poorer.  Massachusetts, by the way, has the biggest underfunded pension system in the country, yet they are all working overtime to increase the deficit. Not to worry, us who have worked since they were 16 will be on the road looking for camping spots under ten bucks a day, because 12 dollars is not in the budget.

They say "Social Security was never meant to be your whole retirement, just a supplement"  Lies.  It WAS intended to be the retirement for those who work without a formal pension plan. When every spare dime is being extracted via taxes, fees and fines, how does one save? And they tell us we should work til 67 before we collect. Give me a break.

 

[Ballenxj]

The problem with the whole system is that while all these people are working every angle to take as much from the state coffers, many others are retiring on a $1,200 S.S. check after working 45 years.  Call me a socialist, but in my opinion a mechanic is as important as a cop, is as important as a taxi driver, is as important as a shoe repair guy or the guy delivering the heating oil to society. I had a neighbor with a small construction business is still climbing on roofs at 73 because he can't afford to retire, while the princes of society, who retire after 25 years and take their money out of state to Florida and the Carolinas are bleeding the state dry while the working poor get poorer and poorer.  Massachusetts, by the way, has the biggest underfunded pension system in the country, yet they are all working overtime to increase the deficit. Not to worry, us who have worked since they were 16 will be on the road looking for camping spots under ten bucks a day, because 12 dollars is not in the budget.

One of my pet peeves. They had this same sort of fiasco in Las Vegas published in the paper. They were caught Red Handed milking the tax payers via the system they had in place. The current crop of fire fighters and police are trying to stay under the radar in that respect now days.

 

[DannyB1954]

$100,000 is big money where I now live, but where I spent most of my life, (San Francisco area), it would not make a house payment. So pay is also a reflection of the cost of living. I also worked as much overtime as I could, and the trade off is I didn't go camping, fishing, take trips etc. So it isn't all free money. You pay a price. In 1978 $300 a month went into my pension fund, (private industry mechanic). Then it went to $400,500,600,700. If all that money over the 30 years went into my own index fund account, I would be a millionaire. So yes, I make more money retired from my pension than I did working, but I paid the price over 30 years to get there.

If you want a stressful job that pays OK, become a Cop. The law of the Universe is if you want what someone else has, do exactly what they did, (both for the good or the bad). You want the freedom a wino has, do what they do. You want financial prosperity like a Doctor has, do what they did. Don't do what winos do and expect the outcome to be what a doctor has.

 

[John61CT]

The whole concept of "retirement" - being able to stop earning an income by choice - is fast on its way to being a luxury for only a few.

Just not an option for those in the bottom 60% even now and I reckon that will climb to 80%.

That whole "middle class" concept, "what's good for the economy helps ordinary people", rising prosperity in general, turns out was a very short-lived anomaly in history. Things are going back to the normal state of affairs, a tiny super-rich minority, the 95% fighting for scraps of their table.

It's not the ex-cops getting 2x the average income should get your attention, it's those whose assets generate millions per month without having to do much more than meet with their advisors.

 

[IanC]

If you want a stressful job that pays OK, become a Cop.  The law of the Universe is if you want what someone else has, do exactly what they did, (both for the good or the bad). You want the freedom a wino has, do what they do. You want financial prosperity like a Doctor has, do what they did. Don't do what winos do and expect the outcome to be what a doctor has.

The point is that, in addition to the high income professions, the country also needs the people who do the other jobs, many of who work as long and hard, if not longer and harder than the others. I've been to a doctor 3 times in the last 20 years, but the garbage collectors come by the house every week, so who has been more important to my life?  Although that might be a bad example because they do get paid well. Maybe a small dairy farmer would be a better example. And the guy who picks the cabbages is infinitely more important than an Art History Professor. Of course, if you're a wino you shouldn't expect too much but if you have made an effort and you have contributed to society as your ability allows and haven't earned enough to save much beyond your SS contribution, then it's a shame that you have to spend your last years in dire poverty.

 

[John61CT]

And in very few societies does a doctor expect to routinely make 5-10x the average income.

The usual justification, fact that her education costs her/family so much personally is another failing of ours.

And along with money, respect given different professions is important, teachers should be at the top, lawyers and financial marketeers at the bottom.

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

 Call me a socialist, but in my opinion a mechanic is as important as a cop, is as important as a taxi driver, is as important as a shoe repair guy or the guy delivering the heating oil to society. 
They say "Social Security was never meant to be your whole retirement, just a supplement"  Lies.  It WAS intended to be the retirement for those who work without a formal pension plan. When every spare dime is being extracted via taxes, fees and fines, how does one save? And they tell us we should work til 67 before we collect. Give me a break.

I 100% agree with you, everyone is just as important as the next when it comes to a functioning society.  Fair should be fair for all involved.  But life is anything but fair.  People working for the government shouldn't have it better than the private sector but they clearly do.  i was just saying I don't blame the State Troopers for doing it.  The system is there that allows it to happen, everybody wants to look on for their own and their families so I'm  not surprised as to why they'd take advantage of the flawed system.  Had I known all the perks of being a government worker I surely would have started working for them fresh out of High school, no one tells you the importance of a pension and benefits in High school, when you're in your early 20's it seems so far away. My uncle retired from the State of Alaska with a really nice pension, he says it all the time.....I got so damn lucky, I never even thought about pensions until I was near retirement and it was all there set up for me. Certainly didn't even register in his mind when he took the job, he just wanted to work for Fish and Game. Fortunately my grandmother beat into my head about saving money my entire life and i headed her advice, so I do have a decent savings and two retirement accounts set up.

Too many people let them get away with it.  Not enough protest, not enough call their reps, not enough vote.  At the end of the day we are all responsible for it happening.  How many calls did you make to the governor or state reps to say you disapprove?  I know I made exactly zero, and I bitch I don't like the way things are, so in a sense i take a part of that blame for the way things are.  If 25000 people flooded the phone lines and showed up at the state house regularly saying this overtime and pension stuff is bullshit, I guarantee it would be fixed.  No one takes the initiative.

 

[IanC]

Too many people let them get away with it.  Not enough protest, not enough call their reps, not enough vote.  At the end of the day we are all responsible for it happening.  How many calls did you make to the governor or state reps to say you disapprove?

State Reps? Governor? The police unions are the most powerful block in the state. NO ONE rocks that boat.  Besides legislators retire very comfortably after even a single term, so they could care less.

By the way, I don't even apply what I've written previously to myself.  My financial situation is 100% my responsibility.  I had a full scholarship to one of the best art schools in the country out of high school - passed it up in favor of traveling and working shit jobs so I could.  I held well paying positions with good benefits but went the way of failed self employment.  So, no, I hold full responsibility for not sticking with the mundane positions I had in favor of chasing rainbows.  That is 100% on me - no blame given to anyone or anything else. I admire those foks who did do the sensible thing - they deserve every penny they have.
I guess my point is that there is the reality of aptitude and I.Q. (which is something we are born with and is not an accomplishment).  Those people who HAVE done the very best with the potential they were given should also be able to live decent lives and retire with food in the fridge.
When I drive by the fields in Southern Arizona and California where there are people picking produce in scorching temperatures I can only hope that they are being paid decently enough that they can at least afford air conditioning and proper food when they get home after their 10 hour days.

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

I took a similar path, skipped college, got great jobs, quit them to travel, i've always dabbled in self employment or other money making ventures and have succeeded and failed at both multiple times. Somehow through it all, i've done decent. Then got disabled at 31. I've gone through a good portion of what i've saved the prior 13 years, but still treading water by some miracle., both health wise and financially wise.

I guess at the end of the day it all comes back to life isn't fair. Money will never allow it, greed trumps over it all. I've always expected more out of Mass being it's where the pilgrims first came to escape their persecutions, the events leading up to the Revolution kicked off here, and now here we are some 250 years later in one of the heaviest taxed states......the very state that fought over oppressive taxes! I'm sure many are rolling in their graves at what it's become.

 

[IanC]

here we are some 250 years later in one of the heaviest taxed states......the very state that fought over oppressive taxes!  I'm sure many are rolling in their graves at what it's become.

Well, Massachusetts is also the state with the greatest number of people fleeing to other states. Unfortunately, they are also the people with high skills and retirees taking their 401Ks and savings elsewhere to spend. The population stays level due to the high birth rates of the people who are dependent on government support. 

Speaking of taxes; it's the hidden taxes and fees that will kill you. After 42 years of never having a single accident or insurance claim, I backed out of my driveway (going 3 mph while trying to watch traffic coming from one direction and hit an SUV coming the other way).  No damage to either vehicle and I wasn't even cited by the officer they called to the scene, but somehow all the parties in the SUV were injured.  Then a few years later, getting out of a tight parking spot I tapped the car behind me.  He claimed damage to a plastic panel that was nowhere near where my car touched his.  Because of those 2 claims, I was surcharged by the state and my insurance rate went from the lowest possible to almost $1,800 a year.  I've paid $6,000 in surcharges to date.  Makes one a little bitter.

Massachusetts is also the only state that requires a uniformed officer at any work being done on the road - even if the utility company opens a manhole cover.  That sweet gig pays $70 - $90 an hour.

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

I've read that it has the highest rate of people leaving, particularly the younger people in the 21 to 40 age bracket, the exact one's needed to keep health costs lower and fund the growing aging population's retirements. Once I became disabled, it became clear to me it was not the state to be in. Sort of a blessing in a way as it gave me time to think for a change and I jumped ship to Maine where I was able to buy a house with cash from the equity on my house in Mass when I sold it. Went from a $1800 a month mortgage to 0. Now I just have utilities and $180 a month in real estate taxes.

I've been through the insurance ordeal myself, two $75 dollar speeding tickets ended up costing me about $4k by the time the insurance premiums went back to normal. Had I realized that at the time, i would have fought the tickets. Excise tax on vehicles is another pet peeve of mine.

 

[IanC]

I've read that it has the highest rate of people leaving, particularly the younger people in the 21 to 40 age bracket, the exact one's needed to keep health costs lower and fund the growing aging population's retirements. 

Which all comes back to the original point of too many people using every possible loophole to jack up their pensions as high as possible. That money has to come from somewhere and there is no other source of public money other than fees, fines, permits and taxes - all of which have to go up to meet  the ever increasing demands on the coffers.  So yes, they are only taking advantage of the systems in place - systems that their friendly legislators helped create, just for them.

Just a couple more factoids before I let it go. My best friend in Mass retired from the prison (in Connecticut) after 20 years of service. He has been retired since he was 42 and is now 56. I've never asked him what he gets but there sure are a lot of nice Harleys and toys at his house. Oh well.....

The infamous Whitey Bulger's brother, thanks to his friends in the statehouse got himself the job of chancellor at UMass. He is now retired at just short of a half million a year. If you care to, Google the highest paid state employees in Mass.

 

[OutdoorFT]

NY is a good example...the state as a whole, not just the city. The amount of civil service positions in this state is, quite frankly, obnoxious. Ive worked for the state, worked in private, currently at Post Office (they claim they dont use federal taxes, but its hard to believe with OT they give out, as well as penalty which is double time).

Not sure where I was going with that other than I can see why taxes here are ridiculous. I wouldnt use police or fire as an example (although true), they do have unique and more danger than most. Politicians that suck the state dry and provide nothing of value in return.

 

[USExplorer]

While I have no problem with people who like to drive fast, I also have no problem with cops getting rich off speeders. Getting a speeding ticket is bleeping stupid when there are damn signs everywhere telling you exactly what the limit is. I've driven all over the country and as a whole the speed limits on America's highways are extremely reasonable, and on top of that the majority of police only hand out speeding tickets to those who speed recklessly. *end rant*

As far as high taxes being forced on everyone to pay for an overbearing government, all we can do is vote with our feet and move to a freer state. Either they will have to learn and get with the times, or they will collapse.