Leaving religion behind...

[One Awesome Inch]

Pastafarian... for realz!

 

[SoulRaven]

Everyone believes in something, be it themselves or a Supreme Being. I think the ideas of Christian morals are what I try to follow without the belief or disbelief in God, Allah, Buddha, or what ever deity one chooses.

While I most definitely have my faults and prejudices I try my best to keep them to myself. I have had two fine young men from the Mormon Church visit several times, I invite them in for something to drink, listen to a few minutes of their thoughts and we are done. My mind is not changed but they feel better that they tried to save an old sinner like me. 

To me life is not that complicated, I stay out of your business and you stay out of mine. I mean personal business, not the business about which is the best way to boondock. 

I wish everyone here a good life.. and Travel Safe, Bob J.  

 

[One Awesome Inch]

The problem for me is when people try to have their religion affect your life. They want a say in who you can marry, who you can visit in the hospital or prison and what rights you have if your signifcant other dies in terms of a will etc. If you cannot marry, you are denied those things. Then they try to have their views put into science books, and pledges and prayers in publicly funded schools.

I definitely agree that people should have the freedom to practice their faith, and believe what they wish. The challenges arise when their faith demands that your rights and freedoms are denied or reduced.

 

[flying kurbmaster]

religion is another casualty of evolution, like wisdom teeth, the horse, and witch burning. I believe we are evolving as a race, never have we lived better or been so knowledgeable. As we evolve things fall away, are discarded or deemed unnecessary in so called modern culture. I believe that religion served a purpose to get us here and for some still does but within a few more centuries it will likely no longer exist or may still be practiced in small groups, similar to civil war re-enactment clubs.

 

[LeeRevell]

One of the greatest faults today is people not realizing that the Bill of Rights, and the Constitution, guarantee Freedom OF Religion, NOT Freedom FROM Religion. Nuff said......

Just don't try to 'convert' me, and we'll get along fine.

 

[Seraphim]

For me, the problem is not religioun - I hold conservative religious views - but churches. They try to package their individual beliefs as truth and the 'Will of God'. It was kind of funny, as our pastor spoke on the same topic this morning lol - those who think they know everything know nothing. My left side is sore because my wife kept cracking up and elbowing me in the ribs.

I think churches do more to alienate people, because neither the church nor their members have learned to differentiate between the church - a man made construct - and the religion. The beliefs of the former often have little to do with the actual teachings of the latter.

And don't worry, I won't try to convert anyone lol. I'm neither an apologist nor a proselytizer. Most religions - at their core - teach good basic concepts. Beyond that, one must be wary of what people teach.

 

[Seraphim]

Basic religious rules of conduct are generally the foundation of social order and legal systems, as well. Having this same discussion on a FB thread as well, with some atheist friends.

 

[Chancebond]

Long ago I saw religion for what it was, a way to govern people. The teaching of basic morals and expectations are good but when the line gets blurred to the point that the morals represent only the religions leaders  benefit, it becomes abusive.  You see it in all religions across the board as well as the harm that has been done. The leaders stay in power and get the money while telling the followers that sacrificing to the point of living in dirt and not eating or even dieing for anothers cause makes them "good" followers.

Jim, I agree wholeheartedly! Most if not all major religions have become corrupted by the greed of men! I classify myself christian, but don't go to church! I pray, fast, and tithe as some Christians do! Now, you may wonder how I tithe! How I tithe, is I go out and help feed, clothe, and help the homeless! I just wish that all religion wouldn't be so corrupted!

 

[mconlonx]

Curious: for those who follow an established faith, how easy is it to integrate into other branches of said faith in far flung locales? Reformed Catholic here, I remember after-church coffee and pastries in the basement as a very social event where everyone caught up with each other. Half the purpose of a parish seemed to be along the lines of providing a social structure and being a place to meet. As a traveler and continuous outsider, how does that work?

At the moment, I self-classify as an apathetic agnostic, according to Wiki. I think many who see themselves as atheists are more agnostic than they think...

Although, if someone put a gun to my head and said, "Choose a religion!" it would be Discordianism. Hail Eris! "No, choose a real, Christian religion!" Quaker. We went to my ex-no.2-in-law's aunt's Quaker funeral and it was a very meaningful experience... with accompanying social time in the adjopining rec hall.

But mainly, I stumble through life religion-less, with occasional nods toward the Tao, which is ineffable...

And I'm always interested and curious when Bob drops tidbits about his belief...

 

[Seraphim]

The apathetic agnostic - we don't know and we don't care! Lol

Mconionx

If you study the history of the church, each of the 5 major Sees went off in their directions with many lines of thought. The major churches that caught on in a big way remained, with the the lesser churches being declared heretical. But even the church fathers of Constantinople, Rome, Jerusalem, Corinth and (the 5th will come to me) couldn't agree on a lot of things and the church fathers often excommunicated each other. When Islam destroyed four of the five Sees, only Rome remained, so it's docrines and dogma became ascendant. The others never actually died out completely; even some of the smaller sects that had been declared heretical. Then Protestantism came into being, as well, with its myriad of sects. But remnants of all the different doctrines remain to various degrees, each church thinking their own is the only true way.

So, to answer your question, I have no trouble visiting other churches because I tend to maintain very basic beliefs; I figure all the man-made doctrine and dogma is inconsequential. You are correct that the main focus of churches should be supporting the community; but, unfortunately, from my discussion with many people, I find it's the churches' various doctrines and dogma which drive members away from their religion with their individual teachings.

 

[Seraphim]

Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, Jerusalm and Rome were the major equal-but-separate Sees. Not Corinth. My memory has occasional but temporary gaps...

 

[Almost There]

I like the term ' apathetic agnostic' - a lot!

It's the answer to what I've never bothered to define myself as...

 

[Seraphim]

Almost There

There is actually a church of the apathetic agnostic. Check it online - you can a free degree from them which actually permits you to legally perform marriages in many states. Amaze your friends! *grin*

 

[Seraphim]

http://apatheticagnostic.org/church.html

It is mostly a tongue in cheek setup, so I'm not recommending anyone to a religious site...

 

[mconlonx]

Apathetic Agnostic: If there are gods out there, they are completely incomprehensible to us and probably don't care about us one bit. 

However, the human penchant for religion and the spiritual seems to be a very strong force. 

There are plenty who replied to this thread with portable beliefs and spirituality. While I am less religious than most, my upbringing has me curious:

Are there adherents of major religious sects -- Catholic, Protestant, Jew, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh, etc. -- who take their religion on the road and make it a point to connect with other believers in churches/synagogues/mosques/temples/etc. as they travel? How are they received? Warmly, as part of the bigger national and global flock? Slightly cold, as an outsider to that particular community...? 

 

[Seraphim]

Define 'portable belief'

 

[Almost There]

Almost There

There is actually a church of the apathetic agnostic.  Check it online - you can a free degree from them which actually permits you to legally perform marriages in many states.  Amaze your friends! *grin*

The degrees aren't valid in Canada but then most of my friends will be amazed that I actually found a 'church' that fits me!

I can now check off 'other' on the darned forms that ask for religion without wishing the box wasn't there...

And I have another site full of interesting reading for when I'm supposed to be productively working...sigh!

 

[HarmonicaBruce]

Hi HarmonicaBruce, really would love to hear more!... lol. (about my proof that god exists)

Or, I've actually attempted to write it up several times, but I lost those write-ups when I get a new computer.  

Here's a brief over-view:

Proof that god exists, rough outline.

1 - Does god exist, that is the quesiton.

2 - This begs the question, define god.

3 - The one thing we do know about "god" is that "god" is in fact, a word.

4 - So we can re-state the question, what does the word "god" mean?

5 - This begs the question, what do words (in general) mean?

6 - Words mean what most people think they mean.

7 - The word "god" means, and always has meant, the unknown.

8 - We'll never know everything, so god exists, and by definition, we can never know anything about god.

God exists, in people's imagination.  Imaginary numbers exist, but they're not real.  However, they are useful.
God is a metaphore.  

I pray, when I can't think of anything else to do to improve my situation.  Sometimes 
it results in an improvement.  Of course I suspect the improvament would have happened without my prayer.
  
That's just the outline, there's lots of filling in to do.

 

[LeeRevell]

That is just a game of semantics. A "True Believer" needs no proof either way, he/she has their faith. A true Atheist is the same. No proof either way is necessary or desired, they disbelieve.
Most of us tend to fall somewhere between the two extremes.

 

[Seraphim]

As Lee stated - that's a weak semantical ploy. Reminds me of a junior high stunt when a teacher told me I couldn't write a story without a subject - I got an A for creativity but she easily identified the subject...

...and where's the math?

Why am I even bothering to respond to this...?