Is this a good buy?

[AutumnLark]

I have a car setup now (2005 Honda CR-V) but I would love a van/class B...I search Craigslist every few days and happened on this. It looks great to me if it is as posted, but I worry about the age and wondered how easy these are for parts and to work on.  Any input is appreciated!

http://pennstate.craigslist.org/rvs/5240710258.html


Thanks All,
AutumnLark

 

[highdesertranger]

well if they were including the generator, maybe. I could see rust in one of the side pics. speaking of which the pics aren't very good, bad resolution. a 351 Cleveland is not a big block and is really not that sought after. whoever posted that is either stuck in the 70's or is blowing smoke. so can you do your own mechanical work? when considering an older vehicle, you must be able to do your own work. highdesertranger

 

[AutumnLark]

well if they were including the generator,  maybe. I could see rust in one of the side pics.  speaking of which the pics aren't very good,  bad resolution.  a 351 Cleveland is not a big block and is really not that sought after.  whoever posted that is either stuck in the 70's or is blowing smoke. so can you do your own mechanical work?  when considering an older vehicle,  you must be able to do your own work.  highdesertranger

Well, I'm not a mechanic, I am mechanically inclined and can learn.   I was an Armorer (weapons repair) in the Corps, and an instructor for four years and taught all of the small arms weapons used by the Corp at the time (90's).  I do minor work on my own car, but with the electronics on the newer cars I've never gotten deep into it.  Figured the older models would be easier to learn and work on...I didn't pay much attention to his comment on the "sought after engine", but you made a good point if he may be blowing smoke on that issue...I of course would look it over first in person and then have it checked out by an mechanic before I made an offer, but I was wondering if it was worth a look.  Thanks for your input!

 

[highdesertranger]

Autumn first off thank you for your service. older vehicles are by far the easiest to work on. you have to remember that older vehicles will need work. on that one in particular I would be concerned about the carburetor. Fords smog carb the "variable venturi" is a junk carb. if you are in an area were you can change the carb legally it's no problem. so like I said, can you do your own work? you must know that on a thirty year old vehicle everything must be gone though sooner or later. sooner if you want it reliable. highdesertranger

 

[Gary68]

yea,definitely worth a look see,being a northeast rig check the under carriage,parts would be easy to come by,351 is a common motor

 

[highdesertranger]

a 351 Cleveland is not a common motor. a 351 Windsor or a 351 Midland is a common motor. remember this is a Ford not a GM you cannot just bolt a different motor in. a Windsor or Midland 351 will not bolt in where a Cleveland was originally installed. highdesertranger

 

[AutumnLark]

Autumn first off thank you for your service.  older vehicles are by far the easiest to work on.  you have to remember that older vehicles will need work.  on that one in particular I would be concerned about the carburetor.  Fords smog carb the "variable venturi" is a junk carb.  if you are in an area were you can change the carb legally it's no problem.  so like I said, can you do your own work?  you must know that on a thirty year old vehicle everything must be gone though sooner or later.  sooner if you want it reliable.  highdesertranger

You are welcome! Thank you for taking the time to give me your valuable insight.  I greatly appreciate your advice.  I did figure I would have to learn to work on whatever I got, as I don't want or can afford a new vehicle.  I don't want to be at the mercy of a mechanic for every little issue so, I have factored into my plans, learning how to fix as much as possible and I do have a decent fund in the event I need to pay for major repairs.  Yeah, I know at that age there will be much to do even if it is in good shape now, it is just a matter of time before issues crop up on a consistent and ongoing basis.  Thanks again!  I just might give this an in person look over.  Oh and I have a detailed RV inspection list and if she passes my inspection then I will pay for a pro to give her a look.

 

[highdesertranger]

hey Gary wasn't trying to bust your balls or anything just wanted to point that out. you really have to watch Fords they have never been very interchangeable. that brings up another point I would be really surprised if that was actually a 351 Cleveland. highdesertranger

 

[AutumnLark]

a 351 Cleveland is not a common motor.  a 351 Windsor or a 351 Midland is a common motor.  remember this is a Ford not a GM you cannot just bolt a different motor in.   a Windsor or Midland 351 will not bolt in where a Cleveland was originally installed.   highdesertranger

So then it might be an issue getting repair parts for the engine?  That is the kind of thing I'm worried about.  I want something that is easier to work on, has a good reliability track record and fairly common so I can get parts for it.  Thanks!!!

 

[Gary68]

hey Gary wasn't trying to bust your balls or anything just wanted to point that out.  you really have to watch Fords they have never been very interchangeable.  that brings up another point I would be really surprised if that was actually a 351 Cleveland.  highdesertranger

no problem dude,i would much rather be corrected then give false info,thanks for the correction,being a gm guy i learned something

 

[highdesertranger]

Autumn you can get parts for a 351 Cleveland engine no problem. but if you were to ever need to replace the block that is a whole different story. highdesertranger

 

[AutumnLark]

Autumn you can get parts for a 351 Cleveland engine no problem.  but if you were to ever need to replace the block that is a whole different story.  highdesertranger

 So if the block cracked I would not be able to replace the engine?  I know that that is unlikely since I have no plans to run it hard and maintaining it properly, if the engine goes I would rather replace it than buy another used vehicle with a new set of issues. In your opinion what is the best make of van (given my requirements) I should look for?  Chevy pre 2000?  I've done some research but am still very much the novice, you seem to be very knowledgeable!

 

[eDJ_]

I wasn't even aware they put Cleveland's in the Econoline Vans.  Unless it was some special order arrangement.
It is a more powerful motor than the Windsor which is a good solid service motor.  I've been around many of these coming from a Ford family. 

This E 350 of mine is one sweet running outfit.  It has some years on it but the miles are quite low.  It was more of a special needs vehicle and didn't get that much use.   I haven't put that much mileage on it myself.
Always prepping for the day though.

Possibly the easiest way to tell the Cleveland from the Windsor is a quick look at the spark plugs.
Those plugs used in the Cleveland are very narrow.  The Windsor uses a more standard size appearing
spark plug. 

Small plug used in a Cleveland Engine

Plug similar in size to that used in a Windsor engine.  (notice gasket on bottom of plug...is probably GM)

When I first purchased my E 350 Econoline I went all over the ignition system replacing the rotor, distributor cap, plug wires and plugs.  Took some time to do it and without a wide selection of tools I wouldn't have been able to replace a few of the plugs.  Large as the Van is......getting to those parts in the engine compartment is tight.

The best thing I've done to mine so far is install an external lift pump at the fuel tank.  When idling I can hear it rattle and banging but that stops when I start moving.  The factory lift pump in the tank is worthless in my
experience.  I've replaced a couple of them after pulling the tank out.  I've also replaced the high pressure pump under the floor at the drivers seat.  The fuel filter is there also. 

There is a junction where fuel lines meet about mid ways that looks like it would contain a large filter.  From what I can find out it doesn't use a filter in there.   I've replaced a relay for the starting system at the right front by the battery.  There are a couple of relays sitting there together at the edge of the hood when it is closed.  They tend to build up crud and lose the good mechanical connection.  Then it is click click click when you turn the key. 

I did have one emission valve on the back of the motor to blow apart.  A rather straight forward disconnect
of the hoses and unscrew the base of it and install a new one.  Probably rusted sitting so much at the previous owners shop.

Otherwise the Econoline Vans seem to have a pretty good reputation.

I just wasn't aware of Ford putting Cleveland's in them.  Again because that was built as a Class B....Whatever company made the conversion may have special ordered them so they would have a bit more power.

 

[GotSmart]

Everyone has their favorite brand.  Do some google searching and put in words like complaints, recalls, problems along with the model.

Just make sure to check out the frame for rust.  Especially around the mounts for the shocks and steering.  It it has cancer, keep on going.  It does not matter how nice it looks inside. (and this looks nice inside) body rot will kill a vehicle quickly.  

I do see some signs of body rot from the side shots.

 

[AutumnLark]

Possibly the easiest way to tell the Cleveland from the Windsor is a quick look at the spark plugs.
Those plugs used in the Cleveland are very narrow.  The Windsor uses a more standard size appearing
spark plug. 

I just wasn't aware of Ford putting Cleveland's in them.  Again because that was built as a Class B....Whatever company made the conversion may have special ordered them so they would have a bit more power.

Wow, awesome information!  Thank you for the details!

 

[AutumnLark]

Everyone has their favorite brand.  Do some google searching and put in words like complaints, recalls, problems along with the model.

Just make sure to check out the frame for rust.  Especially around the mounts for the shocks and steering.  It it has cancer, keep on going.  It does not matter how nice it looks inside. (and this looks nice inside) body rot will kill a vehicle quickly.  

I do see some signs of body rot from the side shots.

Thanks! I have been doing that whenever I see one I like, but since I don't have any experience in this area, or with domestic car brands, I've been a Honda girl for a long time, they are great cars and I've never had an issue with them but they aren't friendly when it comes to working on them yourself.  I was very interested in a Chevy G20, as I read good things about them but it got snatched up quickly.  Highdesertranger mentioned the rust too.  I will see if the owner will send me some better pics.

 

[highdesertranger]

ok here is the deal you can put almost any motor into almost any vehicle. but the big question is what is involved in this? on any chevy from the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's any motor can bolt right into any vehicle no problem they will bolt right in. you can bolt a 454 in were a strait 6 was and vice versa. you can't do that with a ford. also any chevy trans will bolt right up to any chevy motor. now I know you don't plan on blowing up your motor no one ever does but sooner or later it will just plain wear out and then must be rebuilt. you can only rebuild a motor so many times and expect it to be reliable. most gas motors can be rebuilt once. so if that motor has been rebuilt already, the next time it needs a rebuild your need to find a rebuildable 351 Cleveland or do an engine conversion. I am not trying to discourage you from this vehicle or any other but if you are going to drive an older vehicle and want it to be dependable you have to know what you are doing. highdesertranger

 

[AutumnLark]

ok here is the deal you can put almost any motor into almost any vehicle.  but the big question is what is involved in this?  on any chevy from the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's any motor can bolt right into any vehicle no problem they will bolt right in.  you can bolt a 454 in were a strait 6 was and vice versa.  you can't do that with a ford.  also any chevy trans will bolt right up to any chevy motor.  now I know you don't plan on blowing up your motor no one ever does but sooner or later it will just plain wear out and then must be rebuilt.  you can only rebuild a motor so many times and expect it to be reliable.  most gas motors can be rebuilt once.  so if that motor has been rebuilt already,  the next time it needs a rebuild your need to find a rebuildable 351 Cleveland or do an engine conversion.  I am not trying to discourage you from this vehicle or any other but if you are going to drive an older vehicle and want it to be dependable you have to know what you are doing.   highdesertranger

Thank you again!  Learning a lot.  This van isn't very close to me, it is a couple of hours away so, considering the possible engine issue and the rust, I think I will keep on looking.

 

[LeeRevell]

These Generation Three Ford Vans do tend to have some favorite areas for rust.  Check the rain gutters.  Also check the battery tray, and beneath it.  My old 1986 E150 Econoline cargo van has serious rust in there, the battery tray is nearly useless and the body panel under it is seriously rusted.  Frame is okay.  The frames in these vans are pretty stout, and rust here is greatly overblown. The older '86 saw a lot of boat towing duty on the Florida coast much of it's life, so was exposed to salt water spray. Dad used it for his mullet fishing.
My 1988 Ford E150 conversion van is in better shape, but I still have some rust mitigation issues as I work on it.
The 351 Cleveland is one of the best small block V8 motors made.  I'd take one in a heartbeat!  Being a staple in the hotrod industry, parts and service will not be that hard.  Any good auto shop worthy of the name can get the parts and do the work.
The Gen Threes are my favorite Ford vans, but they do have their quirks, and are getting older by the year.  But being non-electronic, the earlier ones are very easy to work on.

 

[Patrick46]

I got curious and looked this up...

Ford did NOT offer the 351 Cleveland in their 3rd generation van series, only the 351 Windsor.

I'm betting this has a Windsor, and that the owner simply doesn't know the difference. (Same thing with the Big Block statement...which this is not)
It's original Windsor 'could' have been swapped out at some time...but why bother???

I'd prefer a Windsor. These are great engines, My last Ford van had one, and I never should have sold it!!!!

Also, YES, hot-rodders do love Clevelands, and they fetch a good price out in these parts.

As for the van itself...I'm sure it's gonna have 'some' rust on it, but I can't see much from the poor quality pics in the ad. (so I don't know where these other folks see any)

Go check it out, and DEFINATELY, bring it to a knowledgeable Ford mechanic. It may be a decent rig.

Good Luck!!