Is the USA a nation in decline?

[Canine]

Have we passed our peak and in the immortal words of Merle Hagard,rolling downhill like a snowball headed for hell?Has our endless instigation,interference and insurrection all around the world finally came back to bite us on the ass?Has our military spending(we spend more than the next 8 countries combined)and continual war along with our low taxes on the wealthy and large corporations reached the breaking point?Have our subsidies for Corporate farms,oil companies and banks become unsustainable?Will healthcare costs continue to be a major factor in the divide between the 1% and the rest of us?Will the gridlock in Washington never end? Our roads and bridges are crumbling,but we don't have the will to pay to fix them.Most democracies in the past lasted about 200 years.Maybe we are already on borrowed time.

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

I think a big shake up is coming in some form or another. Things can't keep going at the pace they are going. That being said I don't worry too much about it, whatever happens life will go on during and after. Might take another 50 years for the top to blow, might take 5. But all democracies do eventually fail and all are replaced by a new one. It will be in interesting ride that's for sure.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

How, exactly, is this going to NOT wind up being a political discussion?

Considering that one of the best theories I've ever heard explaining the phenomenon is "Democracies only work until the people discover they can vote themselves bread and circuses."

Currently, "entitlement" programs and other non-discretionary spending - Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, interest on the national debt - consumes 75% of government intake.

Twenty years ago, it was 50%.

It's been estimated that by 2026, it's going to be 95%.  Which means that only 5% of the government's income is going to be available for non-discretionary spending like running the National Parks and paying for a military to defend the country.

 

[jimindenver]

There is the big picture and the little picture. On the big picture the world has been going to hell in a hand basket since before I was born. On the little picture so much of it doesn't affect the majority on a regular basis. We still live our lives and would be totally unaffected were we to not know what was going on outside of our immediate vicinity.

I think the majority of those that are affected are not done so directly. They are the excessively worried and are affected by changing their lives to prepare for the bomb that never came. Time and family resources for bomb shelters, bug out vehicles, remote properties that are stocked and maintained just in case the impossible ever happens. Every penny saved for the collapse. It can make your families life suck just because someday it might suck.

 

[Sameer]

Democracy is participatory. It is always interesting to read people's assessment of the country and don't vote or participate in the process. I don't see huge problems in our country that cannot be solved in the end. What I do see is a decline in the moral and ethical fabric of society. Like the Roman Civilization. In the end all the bla bla bla has little effect or no effect on our life. "The world is going to hell in a handbasket" read on the walls of Pompeii. Every generation says this since the beginning of time. One person 'waking up and taking action' can inspire others to make change. Change requires action! Not sitting around pontificating.

 

[mockturtle]

There you go again! :-/

 

[speedhighway46]

I consider this thread to be bait . . . be careful. If this doesn't turn political, then it will get to be an, "Oh woe is me" or a general bitch session. I would think there are better forums on the net to discuss this question than on CRVL.

This is just my opinion. Let's talk about van dwelling and boon docking; something we ALL have in common.

 

[eDJ_]

We all know the USA is a sovereign nation and a super power.   It is wealthy beyond imagination with natural resources. Like any other business, it can plod along as long as money is still coming in, no matter how mismanaged it is.


Given the history of the 20'th Century with the cycles of Wars and the expenses of them.  the social changes, technological advances, and Corporate & Political profiteering that has taken place,  it can paint a pretty grim picture for the average citizen.


Add to this the so called "Liberal Media" and radio Pundits who are paid to present one sided spins on news events, knowing them to be so,  the average citizen is annoyed, worried, or paralyzed with fear.   But few of them have traveled world wide or lived in other parts of the world (not including living in a military base) or having traveled the USA extensively to know for themselves.  So they have no basis to believe or disbelieve what they hear in the "media".


Those I've been lucky enough to discuss this topic with have been Career Military personnel, Expatriates,
and people who work in the Petroleum industry who travel extensively to other countries.   The general
comment that they make is that the view from inside the USA is quite different (meaning more distorted) than it is from outside the USA looking in.


I think the USA is like a slow stock market waiting for a rally.  It is a huge place and can't adapt as quickly as other advanced countries such as Germany.  (Texas alone is twice the size of Germany)


I'll mention the 5 points of an evaluation used in the life cycle of a sovereign country. (of which there are now about 180)

countries are poor and think that they are poor


countries are getting rich quickly but still think that they are poor


countries are rich and think of themselves as rich


countries are becoming poorer and still think of themselves as rich


countries are deleveraging and in relative decline and are slow to accept this reality

Again, this is contingent on a country's ability to keep a supply of money in it's treasury.   Often what is reported in the "media" is leveraged by wealthy powers who own or control natural resources and don't want the average citizen being aware of how much wealth exist.

As an example,  look at how 1% have wound up with around 90% of the nation's wealth while in the same time the average citizen has become more and more poor. 

I was listening to a business report just the other day that stated to be "Middle Class" in America you have to be earning between $47,000 and 115,000 annually.  That would be between $22.60 and $55.25 an hour.

This graph shows wages for the past decades and where they went in 2005.   It is why I believe the country is
 ready for a rally now.  (so long as we don't get lured into another faux war)

 

[Gunny]

A  few years ago I read a draft of a speech by President Johnson. In the speech was a great concern over the direction of this nation, race relations, unemployment and a rebellious youth. He also criticized the shape of our military and our ability to defend our shores. He called for unity among all the peoples regardless of race or political party to save our floundering nation.. What I considered to be a real Doom and Gloom sort of speech. 

The speech was written for and given by ANDREW Johnson  after Lincoln's assassination. In my humble and often misguided opinion each generation believes the  younger generation is going to be the last. 

This nation has problems, as do all nations. But as I watch the returning Veteran's and visit with the Wounded Warrior's at the VA and Vet Centers my confidence in the next generation is lifted.

I am apolitical, I vote the man (or woman) who I think will help our nation, not just line his pockets. 

But the fear mongering people who are afraid to speak out or the ones who blindly believe all the media's crappola and spread all of this "The sky is Falling" BS are Sheeple. Not able to think on their own and just believe whatever MSNBC or FOX or any media are the ones who fear living.

Decline Hell, I think we will survive for awhile.

 

[Sameer]

I consider this thread to be bait . . . be careful. If this doesn't turn political, then it will get to be an, "Oh woe is me" or a general bitch session. I would think there are better forums on the net to discuss this question than on CRVL.

This is just my opinion. Let's talk about van dwelling and boon docking; something we ALL have in common.

You are right about BAIT . This is what we have in a Democracy. Something the majority of the people in the world do not. The ability to discuss our political system with the guarantee of no reprisal. Everyone needs to either travel or live in what is called the 'Third-World', to appreciate what they have here. I lived in Mexico City for 13 months..then the State of the Yucatan for 18 months....Guatemala for a year and Brazil, then Paraguay for 6 months. When you see how the other-half lives you appreciate Democracy and all it's Freedoms. Before vandwelling. Before retirement when I lived in Los Angeles I participated in the political party process. Canvasing and phone banks during the election cycle and monthly meetings of my political party. When I lived and worked in New Mexico I did the same thing. Organizing with my political party to get out the vote to elect a Governor who wasn't corrupt and we won. You can criticize the political process all you want but Democracy is participatory. If you don't participate nothing happens....
Now I will get back to refinishing the fiberglass high-top here in the shady forest of Flag. Actually found a product to restore the gel-coat. Will post pictures of the results.

 

[SternWake]

On the big picture the world has been going to hell in a hand basket since before I was born. .

This H in a HB reference was my father's favorite reference when watching the news when I was a child.  I never thought humanity could continue along its course and never bothered planning for a future either.  I did not see the point.

The Sky has been falling for a while now.

Until I see the mushroom clouds, well, I'll keep it simple.  Hard to say whether knowing the sky was falling as a child, was good or bad.  I couldn't imagine willingly being part of the rat race, race for possessions and material wealth.

It does seem to be falling faster now though, or is it that the easy flow of information just makes it seem that way?

Who knows.  Live for today.  Less anxiety that way.

 

[flying kurbmaster]

Democracy !!! if voting made a difference, do you think they would let us do it?

 

[Canine]

I apologize for wandering off of the beaten path.Since most of us live in the USA I thought it would be an appropriate subject for discussion.Oh well,back to debating what kind of glue to use on our solar panels.

 

[BradKW]

Solar panel glue is a much better topic. When I read your original posting, I feel like saying "yes, I agree America is in decline, and it's exactly people who share your views on the topics you raised that have put us there."

But that of course accomplishes absolutely nothing positive.

So...what glue did you use on your panels?

 

[flying kurbmaster]

In " A brief History of the Future" Jaques Attali says that every great empire or as he put it the Mercantile Core, is started or shifts with a new invention, for example  Antwerp  capitalised on the printing press and became the center of wealth and culture, the meditaranian when the rudder was invented, England on the steam engine, the core moved to America with the automobile on the east coast although not invented in America it was capitalised on, in the US. The core didn't leave the US but shifted from east coast to west coast with the invention of the chip, so far it has always moved west, some say China will be next but Attali is not so sure as to where it will move. The best minds artists creators are drawn to the core, in the past it needed stable government, and a good easy access to farming or food, Atalli suggests that perhaps it will be virtual, he thinks China is not stable enough.  It seems it is not about morals or mismanagement that shifts the core it is a new invention that changes the world dramatically perhaps a means to store energy efficiently may be the next major invention or a way to move energy? or something most of us cannot even imagine.  It seems it is not something to worry about as we all seem to gain by the new inventions and the shifts or as you stated the fall of an empire.

 

[Sameer]

Solar panel glue is a much better topic. When I read your original posting, I feel like saying "yes, I agree America is in decline, and it's exactly people who share your views on the topics you raised that have put us there."

But that of course accomplishes absolutely nothing positive.

So...what glue did you use on your panels?

Some people like this kind of discussion. AND NO AMERICA IS NOT IN DECLINE....If you don't like this kind of Political Science discussion....let the rest of us do as we will. Go to the "Glue Panel's thread!!!! Politics has an effect on every aspect of our life....from the City Counsel member who decides no more overnight parking in this town.....to the Federal Level that oversees the management of the forest....discussion is a way to solidify our political ideas. Vandwelling is a piece of the pie....not the whole pie....four years of vandwelling and I like to discuss many subjects to understand others ideas that might be different than mine. It is through dialogue that we come to an understanding of each other and we discover that we are much more alike than different...

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Shucks.  And here I thought that Bob actually had a RULE about NO POLITICS!  . . .

Oh, Wait!  He DOES!

https://vanlivingforum.com/Thread-No-Political-Posts-Allowed

 

[Sameer]

Shucks.  And here I thought that Bob actually had a RULE about NO POLITICS!  . . .

Oh, Wait!  He DOES!

https://vanlivingforum.com/Thread-No-Political-Posts-Allowed

The motives behind your post are transparent and off-subject. As were the others that posted 'off-subject' This WAS a good discussion with no personal attacks or the kind of political discussion that is not allowed. This was pure political science involving Democracy and the perception we have of the United States. We who were involved enjoyed it. I guarantee that Bob read every post and had this discussion descended into what is not allowed he would have deleted it. Now another subject is up for discussion. And we all move on....

 

[cognitive dissonance]

Asking "Is the USA a nation in decline?" is roughly akin to asking if ice is cold.

The USA is bankrupt. If not for massive currency creation, our GDP would have been negative every year since 2007. If interest rates ever move off their artificial lows, interest on debt combined with reduced revenues will consume the federal budget. Never mind social security, medicare or anything else - interest on the debt will eat us alive.

Currency creation has produced an illusion of renewed prosperity, but financial bubbles are NOT wealth for the little guy. Never have been - never will be.

The US dollar is the reserve currency of the world. It was taken off the gold standard in 1971. On average (over the last several hundred years/dozen or so currencies) reserve currencies have only lasted 40 years after going fiat. Right on schedule, the world has begun abandoning the dollar for trade.  This has massive implications for our standard of living, including those of us who have already cut expenses to the bone.

Corruption is rampant. The 1% (the .001%, actually) rule this land. The real power is vested in people whose names are largely unknown. Among the functionaries we're more familiar with, there is a revolving door between Wall Street, Washington and the big corporate boardrooms. The only newsworthy aspect would be if someone at that level of power WASN'T corrupt.

Don't infer from this that I'm anti-free market capitalism, either. What we've had - since long before I was born - is the antithesis of a free market. (As they say, we really ought to try capitalism before we condemn it!)

Another downturn is coming. It may be our last, it may not. You never know what it will take to finally extinguish people's faith in our fake economy. What I can tell you is that the nest downturn will likely read like a news report out of Cyprus and/or Greece. The Fed has already implemented the "bail in" rule
for American banks, meaning that next time around banks can bail themselves out using OUR deposits.

Also, the government has been hungrily eyeing qualified plan assets (IRA's, 401K's, etc.) for years, with plans to nationalize these accounts and take those assets - replacing them with IOU's and guarantees just as rock solid as the lies that underpin social security today.

Don't look for further currency creation to help much next time, either. The effectiveness of the "we're drowning in debt so we need to go deeper into debt to save ourselves" paradigm is running out of steam.

All this monetization has been powerfully inflationary. It was intended to, to protect bank balance sheets. It doesn't matter to them that cost of living has soared as a result. To them, we're just a crop to perpetually harvest. If they were honest, inflation would be called dilution. Why? When you print more dollars, you dilute the ones already out there. Then, it takes more dollars to buy something! Nothing actually costs more - your dollars are just worth less!

Anyway, after inflation comes deflation, and it can come hard and fast.

Then, are you worried about health care? You should be! If car repair worked the same way, it would cost $5000 to fix a flat tire, reduced to $2000 if you have the right insurance, or $8000 if you're paying cash. Obamacare is a joke - it did nothing to fix any problems, and for most it reduced access via higher premiums, higher deductibles and higher copays. 

Our health care system is actually the perfect RICO case, and that's under PRESENT law. 

Someone else started a thread about being without a safety net.  I didn't respond, but the fact is, none of us has a safety net in that sense of the word. Today's America is a house of cards, built by sociopaths on a foundation of quicksand.

I've given talks on this, and what I wrote here is the tip of the iceberg. While this is not a pleasant subject, the machinations of these people are fascinating. Their power game is the (largely) untold history of mankind.

I believe it is important to understand what's actually happening, just so we can't be fooled by con men (and women!) who pretend they care and promise free stuff in exchange for our acceptance of their power over us.  This understanding fills a void in us that will otherwise be occupied by gullibility.

Understanding such things is part of becoming a functioning adult. We should know enough to say "now wait a minute..." when someone claims they can take the helm of a government that's already broke and then give out even more free stuff. (This isn't politics. It's arithmetic.)

For those who enjoy reading, I recommend "The Fourth Turning" by Strauss and Howe. It was a bestseller when it came out, but it's still in most bookstores and of course on Amazon. The gist of the book is that history can be understood as a series of four repeating cycles, or turnings, each about a generation (20 years) in length. After four turnings, the cycle starts over. The fourth turning is usually cataclysmic. America has been through several fourth turnings - the first resulted in the American Revolution, the second in the Civil War, the third in the great depression/WWII. America's fourth Fourth Turning is underway right now, and won't wrap up until the mid 2020's. Right now, it's like 1935 - the economy was in tough shape and a world war was right around the corner - unknown to all but the people planning it, which conspirators included FDR and Winston Churchill.  It's a fascinating look at history, including the history to come.

As with so many things wrong in our world today, this leads right back to the charm of cheap RV living. What we have is much easier to maintain and far harder to lose than a house, career and investment portfolio. Houses, careers and investments are pretty shaky things these days, precisely because of what's going on.

Beyond that, I'd say this little tribe is a better safety net than anything viewed as such by conventional wisdom...

 

[flying kurbmaster]

you guys should watch the doco "The truth about Oz" in it the narrator claims the story the Wizard of Oz is all about debt or where money comes from, how it is initially created by private banks like The Bank of America(the wizard) which prints the US currency and decides how much is printed then charges a fee(interest) for doing this. They print it because they managed to get that legislated somehow, and have bamboozled( pulling strings behind curtains) everyone into thinking that they are the only ones capable of doing this, not government, not the people( Strawman) who do not have enough brains to do it, industrie ( tin man) doesn't care, no heart and the lion a person of influence( politician perhaps) doesn't have the courage to stand up to this. A few have tried, two presidents Lincoln and someone else who actually balanced the budget in doing so, both were assassinated for their effort. Interesting take on defaulting on debt. I think Greenland was seriously thinking of doing just that in order to stop paying some of the 1% ters exorbitant extortion payments, worth a watch if you have a spare 1 1/2 hrs.