Interesting Option for Insulating

[vanman2300]

I looked around to see what the best insulation was available and found this stuff: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aspen-Aerog...phobic-Mat-Per-Linear-Foot-10mm-/180860317203 .

It may be a bit expensive but I haven't run the numbers on it yet. This is a roll of what they call "Aerogel Insulation" that has a whopping 30R per inch.....about twice that of some of the best insulation.

Just thought I'd share this.....

 

[LeeRevell]

Hmmmmm..... I figure basically five 57" wide X 10 foot wide sheets to do walls and ceiling (and rear door) of a standard length full size van (single layer thickness) - works out to $118 plus shipping. Not too bad, actually.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Uhm. He's charging $23 and change for each Linear Foot. So each 57" by 10 ' piece will be $230. . .

Regards
John

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I looked around to see what the best insulation was available and found this stuff: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aspen-Aerog...phobic-Mat-Per-Linear-Foot-10mm-/180860317203 .

It may be a bit expensive but I haven't run the numbers on it yet. This is a roll of what they call "Aerogel Insulation" that has a whopping 30R per inch.....about twice that of some of the best insulation.

Just thought I'd share this.....

Actually, he said you'd get an R value of 30 with 3inches of insulation, so the R value is about 10 per inch . . .

Regards
John

 

[vanman2300]

It seems pretty good for what you get. Walls typically have R4 to R6 insulation while this provides R12 using only half the thickness of rigid foam board. Double or even triple the layers on the roof and get R24 or R36 insulation where the most heat would escape. Sounds pretty snug no matter how cold it gets outside.

Some guy from NASA, where this product is used, said if you insulated a house with it you could heat the house with a single candle. Youtube has a video showing someone with their finger on one side of a sheet of this stuff while a blow torch is on the other side demonstrating the insulating quality of it.

 

[freenez2]

Van man, This is an eye opener and will research this. Thanks for sharing.

 

[vanman2300]

I figure 50 ft will do it so a little over $1000. Pricey but I suppose it depends what R value is worth to you and the other trade off is not having to spend so much on heating. Also keep in mind this is a blanket that can shape over anything taking away the need to spend so much effort stuffing voids.

I did misread the R values but the stuff is still 2 -3 times better inch for inch thickness. The space savings is huge so you can decide whether or not to load up on R value or take the space savings.

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Freenez2....you are welcome.

 

[66788]

To get the R30 rating you would have to apply 3" thick insulation. Standard thickness is 10mm.

Do the math, it's cost prohibitive unless you have a NASA budget.

 

[LeeRevell]

Uhm. He's charging $23 and change for each Linear Foot. So each 57" by 10 ' piece will be $230. . .

Regards
John

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Oops, my math was way off....... thanks!
Not so good after all.......

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

I figure 50 ft will do it so a little over $1000. Pricey but I suppose it depends what R value is worth to you and the other trade off is not having to spend so much on heating. Also keep in mind this is a blanket that can shape over anything taking away the need to spend so much effort stuffing voids.

From a technical point of view, this is probably awesome insulation for building research stations in the Antarctic.

For the average van dweller, the question becomes how many years do you need to keep the van before you get to the break-even point?

Regards
John

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Some guy from NASA, where this product is used, said if you insulated a house with it you could heat the house with a single candle.

I always get a kick out of statements like that. Reminds me of the AEC experts in the 50s who claimed that atomic energy would make electricity so cheap we wouldn't bother to meter it.

Regards
John

 

[Cheap Web Repair]

I figure 50 ft will do it so a little over $1000. Pricey but I suppose it depends what R value is worth to you and the other trade off is not having to spend so much on heating. Also keep in mind this is a blanket that can shape over anything taking away the need to spend so much effort stuffing voids.

I did misread the R values but the stuff is still 2 -3 times better inch for inch thickness. The space savings is huge so you can decide whether or not to load up on R value or take the space savings.

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Freenez2....you are welcome.

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I'm at a total loss for words here. I have a high top with a totally uninsulated fiberglass top. It costs me $50-$60 per year for heating and cooking. About half the year it is below freezing at night, and 30-60 days per year never get above freezing.

Heating and cooling this tub is so easy and cheap it's ridiculous, so how on earth can anybody justify spending that kind of money on insulation? Am I missing something here? I've never owned a van long enough for that to pencil out. I've only got $950 in this old tub for the van and the camper setup.

I had a heavily insulated van, so insulated that you thought you were in a sound proof recording studio. It was also a low top, and it cost me over double to heat that thing, and cooling it was darn near impossible. Every time I see that EZ Bake Oven on the road somebody different is driving it. At 4am it would be in the 70's outside and over 90 inside.

 

[vanman2300]

Yeah, I got a kick out of the candle remark too. He even claimed it couldn't be done because the candle would eventually make the house too hot.

With so many insulating their vans my bet is that it would be very uncomfortable living in an uninsulated van. Maybe the easy bake oven effect could be remediated by a product like reflectix?

Finally this stuff has other uses that could be of help. For example, let's say you needed a cooler that would keep things cold for an extended period of time or maybe there is a pipe that gets exposed to the cold and has a chance of freezing. In both cases a wrap of this stuff might be handy to have around.

 

[Luisafernandes]

When I was researching insulation I came across aerogel, but there was something that kept me from considering it. I'm not sure if it was the price, or something else regarding putting it a van.

 

[vanman2300]

Hi Luis. I read your long thread about the build you're doing on the Chevy.....lots of good stuff in that thread so thanks for starting it and keeping it up to date. It probably was the cost since it would run about $1000 to insulate an average sized cargo van.

I'm thinking of using it only on the ceiling where the most heat is lost. Then use more traditional insulation everywhere else. So I'll be able to get the same R factor I want with using only half the thickness I would use with conventional insulation. The best part of it is I will have the added height within the van giving more head room and more storage area as well.

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Here's another product they make with the same stuff: http://www.thermablok.com/index.htm

It's a tape that goes along ribs or 2X4 to prevent thermal bridging. They claim up to 40% of heat loss can result from bridging but I haven't researched it yet to verify. Has anyone noticed whether or not there are lines going across the roof after a snow or frost that coincide with the inner ribs of the van?

 

[Luisafernandes]

Hi Luis. I read your long thread about the build you're doing on the Chevy.....lots of good stuff in that thread so thanks for starting it and keeping it up to date. It probably was the cost since it would run about $1000 to insulate an average sized cargo van.

I'm thinking of using it only on the ceiling where the most heat is lost. Then use more traditional insulation everywhere else. So I'll be able to get the same R factor I want with using only half the thickness I would use with conventional insulation. The best part of it is I will have the added height within the van giving more head room and more storage area as well.

---

Here's another product they make with the same stuff: http://www.thermablok.com/index.htm

It's a tape that goes along ribs or 2X4 to prevent thermal bridging. They claim up to 40% of heat loss can result from bridging but I haven't researched it yet to verify. Has anyone noticed whether or not there are lines going across the roof after a snow or frost that coincide with the inner ribs of the van?

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Hi vanman2300! Thank you for the kind words regarding my build.
I just did a quick search regarding aerogels and I think I know why I didn't use it. Here's a quote followed by the entire article;
Aerogels are a mechanical irritant to the eyes, skin, respiratory tract, and digestive system. Small aerogel particles can potentially cause silicosis, and so forth, when inhaled and can induce dryness of the skin, eyes, and mucous membranes. Therefore, protective gear including respiratory protection, gloves, and eye goggles must be worn while handling aerogels.

http://downloads.hindawi.com/journals/jma/2014/127049.pdf

I didn't want the risk of living in such close quarters with this stuff.

 

[vanman2300]

Hi vanman2300! Thank you for the kind words regarding my build.
I just did a quick search regarding aerogels and I think I know why I didn't use it. Here's a quote followed by the entire article;
Aerogels are a mechanical irritant to the eyes, skin, respiratory tract, and digestive system. Small aerogel particles can potentially cause silicosis, and so forth, when inhaled and can induce dryness of the skin, eyes, and mucous membranes. Therefore, protective gear including respiratory protection, gloves, and eye goggles must be worn while handling aerogels.

http://downloads.hindawi.com/journals/jma/2014/127049.pdf

I didn't want the risk of living in such close quarters with this stuff.

I did a quick search of hazards of aerogel and by itself it does irritate respiratory and skin much like fiberglass will. However, since the aerogel is encapsulated in a blanket the particles can't escape into the air so I didn't come across any health issues with the blanket type insulation. However, after reading about the gel itself and the health hazard if I use it I will do all cutting outside the van and either heat seal the cuts I make or encapsulate the cuts with some barrier.

Thank you for the link to aerogel.

 

[Cheap Web Repair]

With so many insulating their vans my bet is that it would be very uncomfortable living in an uninsulated van. Maybe the easy bake oven effect could be remediated by a product like reflectix?

Maybe my post wasn't clear, it was the heavily insulated van that was the EZ Bake Oven. My current uninsulated van is much more comfortable.

Insulation holds the heat in in the summer, and the cold in in the winter, which is exactly the opposite of what I want to be comfortable.

 

[vanman2300]

Maybe my post wasn't clear, it was the heavily insulated van that was the EZ Bake Oven. My current uninsulated van is much more comfortable.

Insulation holds the heat in in the summer, and the cold in in the winter, which is exactly the opposite of what I want to be comfortable.

And vice-versa....it's the POtato versus poTAto. The difference is that insulation allows more control over the temperature because it holds the heat generated by a heater during cold weather and in the summer it will hold the cooler air in longer. I simply prefer the control over my environment rather than leaving it to the whim of Mother Nature so to speak.

 

[SoulRaven]

Maybe my post wasn't clear, it was the heavily insulated van that was the EZ Bake Oven. My current uninsulated van is much more comfortable.

Insulation holds the heat in in the summer, and the cold in in the winter, which is exactly the opposite of what I want to be comfortable.

I thought your original post was clear enough, but you have to remember that many of the people here either have no experience, or they have never done it the right way to begin with, so they just don't know any better.

People here seem to be on a heavy cargo van insulated like crazy and solar panel kick. Some of us know better, but the moment we try to contribute our knowledge we get jumped on like we're the fools.

This seems to be a small relatively closed minded group of people who have never attended a Rubber Warriors, Tire Tramps, or any of the other major rallies filled with old timers. The views on the Yahoo & reddit groups seem to have a few more people that actually have a lot of experience.

I frequently see tips here to travel with the weather, well of course a lot of us can't really do that, but if you did, maybe all that insulation wouldn't be as big of a problem as if you're staying in less than optimal temperatures.

So I guess the bottom line is that we can't fault these people, for never have been there or done that, which will gain them the knowledge that us old timers have learned. I think the saddest part is that most who follow the trends here will never become old timers, or will live out their lives in misery when it just doesn't have to be that way.

Hope to catch you at Q or The Slabs Mikey, keep the rubber down and your spirits up! I'm bringing 50 pounds of fresh smoked salmon this year! If the TCT camp is up in a week or so, I'll see you there, but if I'm too early I'll hang out at The Slabs for a bit.

Allen

 

[akrvbob]

Off-Grid, what I don't understand is why you keep posting here. I mean, if you are the only one who is right here and we are all wrong, why would you tolerate all us fools?

I see two reasons why you might be here:

1) You're a troll who just wants to cause problems, or
2) you really believe your own nonsense and you want to convert us all to your way of thinking.

As owner owner of the forum don't find either of those to be acceptable.

I'm trying hard to be tolerant of all your errors and allow you to post them. Tolerance of differing views, even if I'm certain they are wrong, is a good thing.

However I've reached the end of my tolerance for your insulting everyone who doesn't agree with you. I'm going to allow you to post this but any more like it will be deleted.

Next time you will be put on moderation and every post will have to be approved before anyone sees it.
Bob