Insurance Recommendations (Or, surprise! Not covered!)

[SoulRaven]

I'm currently insured with Amica Mutual. Everything I've heard is good stuff about them and I've had no complaints.

Except the fine print of their policy has an exclusion that states, multiple times "...while occupying any vehicle located for use as a residence or premises."

In other words, if any incident occurs while I am living in my van, I don't have coverage.

I figured, well, how could they know that? I mean, what if I was just camping in it? So I contacted them and requested clarification, stating that I've been camping in my van over the summer and want to know if I'm still covered while sleeping inside of it.

Their response:

"As for the exclusion to vehicles being used as a residence, it is in regards to vehicles being used as a permanent residence. You would still have coverage while camping in the vehicle for short periods of time in the summer. It will be clear that you have another listed primary residence other than your vehicle."

In other words, crap, I don't actually have coverage. The address they have me at is a private mail box, which reads like an apartment address and they're just assuming. I cannot change it to someone else's address because then SSI would get on my case about living there instead of in my van and drastically cut my income because of it.

Can anyone recommend insurance companies that don't disqualify you from coverage if you live in your van?

Thanks.

 

[rvpopeye]

What a fine way to treat you ,,, errrr anyone not living in a house !
I wonder how many other Ins Co's do that too.....They'll all probably do it once it catches on.

 

[moorejames]

Amica is a direct writer company. Direct writer and captive agent companies ( State Farm, Nationwide, Farmers, American Family) all tend to use their own forms, so they are all different.

Companies that sell through independent agencies all tend to use forms from a company called ISO. As far as I know, ISO forms do not have an occupancy exclusion, unless it was added very recently, which I doubt.

So... Go to an independent agent and you'll likely get a quote from an ISO company. Some examples of independent agency companies are Safeco, Grange, Auto-Owners, Westfield, Cincinnati, Hartford.

Beware though, ISO forms are full of business exclusions....

Also, I wouldn't mention the fact you're living in it. Just because it's not excluded doesn't mean they wouldn't use that as an underwriting criteria to deny writing your policy or even quoting it.

Jim

 

[Trebor English]

Is the coverage exclusion for the vehicle and contents separate from liability coverage?

 

[SoulRaven]

Is the coverage exclusion for the vehicle and contents separate from liability coverage?

The coverage exclusion is listed for:

• Uninsured motorist coverage of vehicle and equipment
• Bodily injury as a result of an uninsured motorist
• All medical payments coverage

For that last one, I will quote it directly:

We do not provide Medical Payments Coverage for any insured for bodily injury...Sustained while occupying any vehicle located for use as a residence or premises.

So that's just....yeah. Completely not covered. :/

 

[Stephen]

Hmmm. I have Safeco. I'm not full timing yet, but I think I'll look for that in my policy.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Bitty, FWIW, the Escapees Club endorses three different specialty RV insurance companies.  You might try checking with them.  Details here:

https://www.escapees.com/support/endorsed-vendors

 

[Gadget728]

What if you're camping, and a branch falls off of the tree your under, crushes your roof and breaks your arm at the same time?

 

[SoulRaven]

What a fine way to treat you ,,, errrr anyone not living in a house !
I wonder how many other Ins Co's do that too.....They'll all probably do it once it catches on.

I know, right? I sure hope it doesn't catch on; it becomes a human rights issue.

Hmmm. I have Safeco. I'm not full timing yet, but I think I'll look for that in my policy.

Let me know what you find. My boyfriend has Safeco and we were rear-ended on the freeway back in March, so we've had the 'pleasure' of dealing with them. Can't say I recommend them. The accident was fairly serious; the van was a total loss and we both got pretty bad whiplash. Safeco is STILL refusing to pay the full medical bills; they just keep paying down a fraction of the amount and then billing us for the rest. Which goes back to the lawyer which goes back to them and they pay a little bit more, repeating the cycle over and over again. It's ridiculous.

That's in addition to the independent medical investigation they're launching at me. For a long while they were completely refusing to pay for my urgent care appointment two days after the crash. All I've asked them to cover is the ER visit, the urgent care visit, one primary care visit and the osteopathic treatments for my whiplash. No prescriptions, none of the severe psychological fallout (I stuck with substandard medicaid treatment) and yet they're suspecting me of insurance fraud.

For the latter, I don't know if it would be any different with another insurance company, sadly. But as far as only paying little bits of bills at a time and then sending the rest to us, I'm pretty sure there are better companies out there who would actually pay as outlined in the policy.

 

[rvpopeye]

Maybe you should look for a lawyer that carries a bigger stick.

 

[TrainChaser]

Don't go to a lawyer until AFTER you've contacted your State Insurance Commission (SIC) and see what they do.  They license the individual companies in that state -- too many complaints and screwups, the company loses their license in that state and all of their business there, too.

IMO, insurance companies are basically crooks.  I used to work in insurance.  Always understand that they are in the Premium-Collecting Business, NOT the Claim-Paying Business.

When you call your SIC, you'll get a gum-chewing receptionist.  Tell her your problem in about three sentences.  She will send you the forms to fill out.  On the forms, you put every detail, every date/time, the gist of every phone conversation.  

Whenever you talk to an insurance company (yours or the at-fault guy's), be sure to have paper and pen handy, and take notes and ask for names.  If the adjuster handling your cage is being an AH and/or playing games, tell the the insurance company you want another adjuster.  YOU CAN DO THIS.

The SIC here in WA acts fast.  My sister broke her ankle, was sent to the recommended specialist.  Afterward, she got a bill for something like $2,400 for the visit.  When she asked why, they told her that the specialist doctor wasn't on the insurance company's list.  She told the Insurance Commission that she WORKED for the hospital, it was the HOSPITAL'S INSURANCE, the hospital SENT her to one of THEIR doctors, and now they told her he wasn't on the list.

Less than two weeks later, the billing people called her, and cautiously asked her if one payment of $224 would be okay.  She said yes, that's fine.  No further problem.

Also do this if your coverage falls into a 'gray area', where certain things aren't specified.  An insurance company is often willing to 'eat' some of it to avoid antagonizing the Insurance Commission.

Fulltime RVers Need An Official RV Insurance Policy
https://rv-roadtrips.thefuntimesguide.com/2008/06/rv_insurance_online.php

 

[RVTravel]

Lawyer will do you no good. You signed a policy that was not for your purpose, and you need to move on to another insurance carrier.

 

[GotSmart]

This is the reason I am insurance poor.  I have a top policy with USAA.  I inform them when I go Walkabout, and they cover me like a warm blanket. 

The last accident I was in, the other person had 2 unbelted children, and NO INSURANCE.  I was 100% covered for all.  They paid for my car, then a week before Christmas gave me 10K for my broken leg.  

25% of my income goes to insurance of one form or another.

Van, renters, dental, health, life..  Insurance poor, but one phone call and everything goes into motion. At my age, I need it.

 

[NoLimit]

I'm currently insured with Amica Mutual. Everything I've heard is good stuff about them and I've had no complaints.

Except the fine print of their policy has an exclusion that states, multiple times "...while occupying any vehicle located for use as a residence or premises."

In other words, if any incident occurs while I am living in my van, I don't have coverage.

I figured, well, how could they know that? I mean, what if I was just camping in it? So I contacted them and requested clarification, stating that I've been camping in my van over the summer and want to know if I'm still covered while sleeping inside of it.

Their response:

"As for the exclusion to vehicles being used as a residence, it is in regards to vehicles being used as a permanent residence. You would still have coverage while camping in the vehicle for short periods of time in the summer. It will be clear that you have another listed primary residence other than your vehicle."

In other words, crap, I don't actually have coverage. The address they have me at is a private mail box, which reads like an apartment address and they're just assuming. I cannot change it to someone else's address because then SSI would get on my case about living there instead of in my van and drastically cut my income because of it.

Can anyone recommend insurance companies that don't disqualify you from coverage if you live in your van?

Thanks.

What I did is I re-classified my cargo van turned camper van as an RV with State Farm. All they required was to send pictures of the finished build showing the amenities that make it a RV. Not only did my chevy express 3500 get re-classfied as a RV with the insurance company (only with insurance, NOT with BMV) but my insurance bill got cut in half from $600 a year (Biannually) to $300 paid only once a year.

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

I know, right? I sure hope it doesn't catch on; it becomes a human rights issue.


Let me know what you find. My boyfriend has Safeco and we were rear-ended on the freeway back in March, so we've had the 'pleasure' of dealing with them. Can't say I recommend them. The accident was fairly serious; the van was a total loss and we both got pretty bad whiplash. Safeco is STILL refusing to pay the full medical bills; they just keep paying down a fraction of the amount and then billing us for the rest. Which goes back to the lawyer which goes back to them and they pay a little bit more, repeating the cycle over and over again. It's ridiculous.

That's in addition to the independent medical investigation they're launching at me. For a long while they were completely refusing to pay for my urgent care appointment two days after the crash. All I've asked them to cover is the ER visit, the urgent care visit, one primary care visit and the osteopathic treatments for my whiplash. No prescriptions, none of the severe psychological fallout (I stuck with substandard medicaid treatment) and yet they're suspecting me of insurance fraud.

For the latter, I don't know if it would be any different with another insurance company, sadly. But as far as only paying little bits of bills at a time and then sending the rest to us, I'm pretty sure there are better companies out there who would actually pay as outlined in the policy.

  This is what insurance companies do. They do this everyday on every claim and after a short period most people give up and they keep more profits for themselves.

It happens in Homeowner's Claims too.  That's why my occupation exists.  I'm a Public Insurance Adjuster.  I fight the Insurance company for the Insured.  Last claim I did homeowner's were offered 11500, tried getting more out of them for a year, showed them numerous contractor estimates to do the work were all well over what they received.  They were told it's all they could get under their policy.  Hired me, I was able to get the settlement to 48,000.  Good thing about hiring a Public Insurance Adjuster is we are licensed by the State, through the exact same agency their adjusters are licensed.  They can not ignore us and have to work for us.  I do homeowner's claims, but I do believe there are private adjusters for auto and liability claims as well.

 

[anewbiewannabe]

^^^ Reading that from ERLH makes me appreciate my insurance company more.  When my house was damaged by storm---siding ripped off and lightning burning some electrical---the adjuster calculated replacement of all the siding on that side even though only 3 pieces were involved and told me to have the work done on the electrical and give him a list of electronics damaged with replacement prices from online---comparables for stuff no longer available.  It took 3 checks, but he just cut me checks for each amount, including taxes on the list items, with no questions asked. Part of it may be because of my age and 20 year history with the company.

I haven't had to use my car insurance with the same company so I don't know how they'd be with that, but I did call the agent a while back to ask if they would insure a self-made "camper" van with all it's contents if I went snowbirding and he automatically said yes even with the solar system and computer I mentioned.  Whether this is in fact true I'll only find out when the time comes though.

Thanks Bitty for sharing about your experience---it's definitely something to be aware of.  Dang it sucks that you're going through this though.  Seems like catching a break is so much harder for some of us.  I sure wish I had a recommendation for you.

 

[TrainChaser]

For those of you who have had a claim (or claims), how much did your premiums go up at the next renewal?

For those of you who have older vehicles, do you still pay for collision? Have you asked how much the company will actually PAY if the vehicle is totalled? Are you paying a lot for very little?

Have you asked if any of the contents of your van are covered? Did they laugh their heads off?

This article has some information that might be useful. RV insurance is different from regular car insurance:
"Fulltime RVers Need An Official RV Insurance Policy"
https://rv-roadtrips.thefuntimesguide.co...online.php

 

[Gunny]

This company covers full-timers tho I dont know the rate.

http://www.nationalgeneral.com/rv-insurance/default.asp

 

[SoulRaven]

Lawyer will do you no good. You signed a policy that was not for your purpose, and you need to move on to another insurance carrier.

You misunderstand. The lawyer is for an accident that happened with my boyfriend's van. It has nothing to do with my van or my insurance policy. It only came up because someone mentioned Safeco, which is my boyfriend's carrier and the one we have been dealing with. It has been a bad experience so I'm hoping they don't end up as my only option.

This is the reason I am insurance poor.  I have a top policy with USAA.  I inform them when I go Walkabout, and they cover me like a warm blanket.

I cannot tell you how many times I have wished i qualify for USAA. I hear nothing but good things about them.

I got in touch with an independent insurance agent and he's going to do some research and get back to me. The tricky thing is, most RV insurances will only insure RVs, whereas auto insurances don't want you living in your vehicle. He's going to try to go the RV route but basically try to find out what my options are regardless. He said he had a friend who traveled fulltime in a van for a while that he helped get set up with insurance-wise so hopefully something pans out.

That call went a whole lot better than the first phone call to a different independent insurance agency. "I have NEVER heard of ANYONE trying to get insurance for living in their vehicle", the woman told me suspiciously. "Well, just regular auto insurance", i clarified. "No one we work with would do that. But look up Vern Fonk, he specializes in high-risk drivers."

I go to his website and it's for people with multiple DUIs, tickets, accidents, etc. Yeah....I do NOT belong there.

*sigh*

Hopefully this agent will help. Fingers crossed.

 

[Headache]

That's why my occupation exists.  I'm a Public Insurance Adjuster.  I fight the Insurance company for the Insured.

I wish I had known your occupation even had a name let alone existed.  The claim on the accident my dad and I were in hit the statute of limitations in June because I couldn't find a lawyer to represent me.

I've got a good/better insurance agent/company now and hopefully that will extend to my trip to the desert for the winter.  I'll find out soon when I go talk with them about it.  This winter is a trial of sorts; if I like it I'll go fulltime, if I don't I didn't lose anything for the experience.  I believe I'll be just fine after living in the confines of a semi cab.    If I do full time I'll definitely be getting a real policy for it.  As much as I hate the field I'm pretty anal when it comes to having proper insurance now.  Which leads me to extending this advice:

Be cautious of companies that recommend policies through their exchanges and do your homework!  I can't state that enough.  I used Poliseek(now AIS, one of the companies listed on Escapees) for an RV policy and while their customer service was fantastic, their pricing and knowledge/information about state requirements wasn't.  They recommended a Progressive RV policy which I accepted at the time because I couldn't find a better deal.  Once I got moved to WA state to take care of my dad I cancelled the RV policy and got car insurance through them however, I didn't get PIP(personal injury protection) to save money(WA state is expensive and I'm on a fixed income).  What I didn't know and only found out this year was that it's a REQUIREMENT in WA state to have it.  Had I known that and Poliseek said something about it the personal injury claim from the accident would have been handled. 

Also, I paid Progressive monthly and by doing so my policy was about $50 more a month.  I told Poliseek I refused to be punished for having to pay monthly and they told me I wasn't.  I countered with telling them that they weren't finding me the best policies for the price then and I was going to shop elsewhere.  Suddenly other policies became available but when I went outside of them and learned I could get a policy from State Farm that was almost half the cost and I could pay monthly for only a couple bucks more for their administration type "fee", you bet I jumped on it.  Live and learn.

That full timers insurance article TrainChaser posted is a great read/must know on the basics and comparisons.  There are huge differences one must consider because the cost could be devastating if you don't.

Bitty

"No one we work with would do that. But look up Vern Fonk, he specializes in high-risk drivers."

I go to his website and it's for people with multiple DUIs, tickets, accidents, etc. Yeah....I do NOT belong there.

That's not the only people they carry which is why I'm assuming you were referred to them.  Although high-risk drivers are a staple, Vern Fonk was to the PNW what Lloyds of London used to be.  They are one of the few companies that will insure a driver for driving anything without attaching the policy to a car(broad form policy) and at times have been known to write creative policies outside the norm.  I'm unsure if the company does that since it was sold by the family to an outside insurance group.  Companies like them are rare anymore.  The spokesman on their commercials(who also wrote them) was the manager of the Everett office and he was one of their creative policy gurus, but he died last year.