I was shocked by "Kratom" and how good it worked

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I have arthritis, osteoporosis a little scoliosis, the worst of all, sciatica! Doctors will not give me pain meds. They keep repeating surgeon! I kept waiting for the link to purchase it. But you didn't. It would be so wonderful if I could walk to the mailbox, or could walk Walmart to get groceries, best of all, work in my yard without having to crawl up the steps! (Which I fell down the other day!) Thank you,
I think :)
I have a touch of Sciatica. My provider prescribed hyrdocodone+acetaminiphen. I told her I didn't want that s*t. She prescribed it anyway! I haven't filled it and have no plans to. I just kicked 20 years of anti-depressants... yeah, I really want to start a NEW addiction!

UPDATE: I want to be clear that I was not knocking those who feel like they NEED stronger meds. I was contrasting that with the fact that I have a provider that wants to prescribe them for me when I don't WANT them. That's all.

That's MY $0.02.. Your Mileage May Vary.
 
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I was motivated by this thread to look into kratom. Found this video, which I found very interesting, and thought others might as well. It's 28 minutes long. A doctor is talking to the Seattle Science Foundation about kratom dependency, because she had a patient who was taking pretty high doses. Summation - she is very nonjudgmental about kratom use, points out that some people have very good reason to use it, but dependency / withdrawal is a real issue.

 
Thank you for this information, I will check on schizophrenia regarding this. Inflammation causes schizophrenia so when we got COVID, my son got a young Dr. who didn;;t know you were not suppose to prescribe Prednisone. He took 50% of the dosage and I prayed. No hallucinations ever since. Yet they say this anti-inflammatory medication causes hallucinations hence why i only gave him 50% of the dosage. It did the exact opposite, and FOR GOOD.

They lie. Or the studies were with a higher dosages. I don't believe everything I hear from Big Pharma. I suspect this would cure most or many schizophrenics of hallucinations cutting into Big Pharma's pockets. I often wonder if he quit the anti-psychotic, what would happen? Does he still need it?? We aren't going to chance it anytime soon but it would be interesting to know
 
Thank you for this information, I will check on schizophrenia regarding this. Inflammation causes schizophrenia so when we got COVID, my son got a young Dr. who didn;;t know you were not suppose to prescribe Prednisone. He took 50% of the dosage and I prayed. No hallucinations ever since. Yet they say this anti-inflammatory medication causes hallucinations hence why i only gave him 50% of the dosage. It did the exact opposite, and FOR GOOD.

They lie. Or the studies were with a higher dosages. I don't believe everything I hear from Big Pharma. I suspect this would cure most or many schizophrenics of hallucinations cutting into Big Pharma's pockets. I often wonder if he quit the anti-psychotic, what would happen? Does he still need it?? We aren't going to chance it anytime soon but it would be interesting to know
I hope he stays on his anti-psychotic, I also have schizophrenia and twice thought I was cured and stopped taking mine. All I can say is bad things happened. It is a chemical inbalance in the brain.
 
They lie. Or the studies were with a higher dosages. ...
I often wonder if he quit the anti-psychotic, what would happen? Does he still need it?? We aren't going to chance it anytime soon but it would be interesting to know
Find a doctor that you trust and that's willing to take the time to communicate -- two different traits, but often if you find one you'll find the other! -- and work it through with them.

Or maybe -- I don't know this field, I'm speculating -- a medical social worker could help you think this through, or at least give you another perspective.

Better to make that effort, however excrutiating, up front, than to experiment without a safety net and have to make 10x as much effort afterward (as GypsyJoe is a witness) to pick up the pieces.

Yeah, there's a lot of lying (and a lot of general foolishness) going around -- but be careful not to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Figuring out the difference is hard and super-annoying, but it's worth it.

PS There should be more places where you can find answers to medical questions written in plain language. I like to look at the Mayo Clinic and Cleveland Clinic websites when I have questions. There are many other resources like that but I'm never sure how to evaluate which ones are really reliable.
 
So sorry you have this disease, thanks for the advice. Yes he will surely stay on his meds for a long while... no interest to stop medication but as you stated, it's easy to think you are cured and then stop medication. He lives here with us now, hallucinations have stopped and that is also what he told his psychiatrist at his last visit. I was present. I noticed it for sure but we never spoke of it so I wondered what he would say, if he would notice.
 
Find a doctor that you trust and that's willing to take the time to communicate -- two different traits, but often if you find one you'll find the other! -- and work it through with them.

Or maybe -- I don't know this field, I'm speculating -- a medical social worker could help you think this through, or at least give you another perspective.

Better to make that effort, however excrutiating, up front, than to experiment without a safety net and have to make 10x as much effort afterward (as GypsyJoe is a witness) to pick up the pieces.

Yeah, there's a lot of lying (and a lot of general foolishness) going around -- but be careful not to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Figuring out the difference is hard and super-annoying, but it's worth it.

PS There should be more places where you can find answers to medical questions written in plain language. I like to look at the Mayo Clinic and Cleveland Clinic websites when I have questions. There are many other resources like that but I'm never sure how to evaluate which ones are really reliable.
We have a close friend who is a Doctor. He said he would take this route but none are EVER going to give you approval to take a schizophrenic off medication. Generally you just lower the dosage. If done slowly and you are on HIGH ALERT you can see the first hallucination thus knowing it isn't going to work. He's also on Ambilify which stays in your system for some days even if you miss a dose.

Anyhow it won't happen anytime soon. We live in a Neighborhood so would be more comfortable doing it off-grid to test it. No hurry and I am still doing independeint study on it. There is also a stain of *** oil which in studies with Amulsipride, worked just as well. 20 were on the antipsychotic, 20 on *** oil. I cannot recall where the study was done but it certainly wouldn't be in the US. Both did equally as well however those on the anti-spychotic drug, had the normal bad side effects.
 
My perspective is kratom is addictive, just like pain pills are addictive. Being from a plant or being around 1,000 years doesn't make something not addictive, especially since almost every street drug is from a plant. Common sense tells me anything that can be used as a substitute for heroin or narcotics is nothing to play around with.

As long as people know what they're getting into, more power to them. But I know too many people who ended up looking like they were on crack or meth before they went to rehab because someone told them kratom was ok to take. I suggest researching kratom and tolerance so you have an idea of what's happening if things start getting out of control. Checking out the sub on Reddict for people trying to get off kratom might be beneficial also.
 
My perspective is kratom is addictive, just like pain pills are addictive. Being from a plant or being around 1,000 years doesn't make something not addictive, especially since almost every street drug is from a plant. Common sense tells me anything that can be used as a substitute for heroin or narcotics is nothing to play around with.

As long as people know what they're getting into, more power to them. But I know too many people who ended up looking like they were on crack or meth before they went to rehab because someone told them kratom was ok to take. I suggest researching kratom and tolerance so you have an idea of what's happening if things start getting out of control. Checking out the sub on Reddict for people trying to get off kratom might be beneficial also.

I'd never heard of kratom until this thread. No intention of taking it myself, just wanted to present another side to anyone who might be looking for medical advice on an RV forum. Thank you for your perspective!

Re: "reddict" when I read this thought it was a reddit for addicts!
 
(This is uncomfortable for me here...I usually engage in subterfuge on these forums when it comes to personal identifiable traits, but feel like in this case, JD needs to open up for a minute. I feel like I owe it to some of you to share my experience.)

A long time ago, I lost more than an inch in height from a lower spine compression injury. (I highly recommend against it.)
This has meant constant nagging chronic pain...and those lovely blue pills that are currently rumored to be the devil. Lots of those.

As the feds waged war on physicians and they refused more and more to prescribe opiates, folks in my circle began to seek alternates. That is how I heard about Kratom (it is supposed to be pronounced "Kra-Tom" BTW, not "KRAY-tum") years ago and paid little attention. Sadly, the "head shop herbals" often are worse for the body than the real thing they are supposed to replace. (Synthetic weed, anyone? Bath salts? Ringing a bell??)

Only...Asians have been chewing the leaves forever.
It is not some chemical...its nothing but a natural...related to the coffee plant.
(See NETFLIX: "A Leaf Of Faith" for much more info.)

Several of the veterans in the chronic pain/disability group I have been involved with for years tried Kratom and had great luck.
After a specific guy I truly respect said the same, I decided to give it a whirl. This was a while back.

It was truly amazing.

I was on more oxy than most terminal bone cancer patients (420MG a day...along with 40MG of Methadone. That would kill the average person without a huge tolerance BTW. (The typical 'percocet' contains 3.5MG of the same opiate. Do the math...) (No, I was not a junkie. I love herb, but never cared much for booze or opiates. After 27+ years with my injury, the levels increased to get the same analgesic effect. This happens to everyone who has nagging nerve damage/pain after enough time.)
(...NO, you cannot buy my pills. YES, I know they bring up to $50 each for 30's on the street. Don't care...don't bother asking. Also, just a little note to stalker types...if you get through the Rotties, plan on drinking stop leak before trying to infiltrate my space. It might increase your odds of survivability. In VA, we shoot trespassers and jury results speak for themselves. Okay, back to Kratom now...)

I did a little research on who sells Kratom and how they do quality control. (If you decide to use it, I strongly suggest being smart about this, as the cheapest stuff can contain fillers and foreign material.)

I ordered it and I tried it.

In powder form, the stuff tastes like you are eating lawn clippings. How the Asian folk chew the stuff...??? YUCH!
(I am fat...but not a cow. Humans are not meant to eat grass. Why couldn't mother nature have made it taste like BACON???)
Of course...anyone ever taste a pain pill? Acetaminophen? *GAG*
For this reason, after that first order, I went to the capsules.
I noticed something. Where I would normally get "the jones" after 4 hours without more oxy, I went 12 hours without any of it my first day using the Kratom. I also noticed my feet and spine did not hurt...like...at ALL.

(12 hour gap in dosage has not been possible for more than 15 years in my case. The Fentanyl patches make my already "loving and gentle" SARCASM personality about three times more confrontational and cranky...;) so I was forced to eat my little blue M+M's. Always had them in my pocket. It made RV life impossible without regular (90 days) trips back East to get script refills. Every time we would get comfy, we had to leave, drive home and deal with doc visits...grrrrrrrrr...)

Then it was 16 hours...then I began to keep track of how much I was reducing opiate intake.
The stuff tasted AWFUL, but it really worked!!!

Some of you may have noticed an absence from my uplifting and gentle, loving, warm and fuzzy posts on this forum.
Reason=I detoxed myself. Pretty much against MD's suggestion.
I went from 420/40 to a current 45/10 dose of Oxy/Methadone. (...and continuing to reduce. I plan on ZERO opiate within a month. That methadone crap is very tough to reduce. Worse than heroin I am told.)

Blood work indicates my "check liver light" is now off for the first time in 20 years.
I have dropped 60 pounds (and continuing to lose with a modified "****" eating program.)
I have energy and my metabolism has increased.
More than that, the pain is actually controlled better than with all that opiate crap in my system. The only side-effect is the "espresso zing" that comes along with the pain control. (Coffee people...you will want decaf if taking this stuff. At least I do.)

I thought for sure, the Kratom would become ineffective like the Oxy did over time.
NOPE.

Three capsules with morning decaf and then as needed during the day takes care of it. Truly ASTOUNDING, compared to the traditional pharma-for-profit method. F&^% the doctors. Lemmings, controlled by the feds. Period.
Had I gone to one of the Chinese chemists 20 years ago, I would have saved myself a ton of agony and money.

There are a few things to mention. Nothing is perfect and neither is this.
For those with weak hearts, make sure your doc approves. Three capsules of the "White" Kratom strain (best I found for pain control) is like a shot of espresso or two. You'll WILL notice a change.
While it does not make you "high" (if anything, in INCREASES clear though) folks around you will see a smile and increased energy. Those who nod off behind the wheel...you won't anymore.
You cannot take it before bed (unless you are one of those people who sips coffee all night)


To the old farts ingesting the daily acetaminophen poison...
It will make your body feel younger. Your hair will grow faster, your body oils return, alligator skin scenarios will vanish and not taking a shower for 4 days will no longer be an option. (Men...there are other, rather nice side effects after a few weeks of use. This may be strictly due to the long walks you are now going on and the jobs you are getting done that previously would remain on the "Honey-Do" list...not sure. See if I am not right. (My 78 year old friend, who never touched a pain pill called me and actually started to weep as he told me his PanHead left the garage for the first time in 10 years. He laughed when the cop ticketed him for expired tags...he takes it every morning now...and re-registered his Harley.)

You can watch the film for deeper explanation, but its magic has to do with how it floods the same areas of the brain as opiates...but without the opiates. For some reason, it remains effective over time on pain because of this.

Use a LITTLE, not a lot.

A bunch of junkies who try to get a "high" from the stuff use big doses.
I strongly advise against it. A couple of the SCI "super chair" vets (the ones who lost use of their legs, but look like Ronnie Coleman in the upper body) went there with it. Constipation, tummy upset and chronic belching grass-gas was the result.

ONE capsule to start with. Watch that arthritic neck pain vanish.
I needed three at a time, but the load of opiate coursing through my body at the time may have had a lot to do with it.
The older folks who use it that I know all have similar findings. A natural, safe and relatively cheap pain reliever that has quite the opposite effect of most, in that it energizes instead of putting you to sleep and making you stupid.

Anyone reading this addicted to street $hit, you NEED to try this.
Four bag a day heroin spikers with collapsed veins have detoxed (while working 40 hours a week) in 30 days using this.
It virtually erases 75% of the withdrawal symptoms.

You are going to see and hear the naysayers referencing the "Kratom suicides." LOL, look into that a little. I want to dig into everything and this was no exception. The mother of the best known bridge jumper was on MANY psych meds...all at once...and had OCD symptoms. He also was trying to take enough to mimic the effects of heroin...which cannot be done.

You will also hear docs whine about its unproven efficacy and all the other typical lobbyist propaganda.

Here is JD, who just opened a highly personal part of his life like a side of beef to you, saying it works and works very well.
Anything can be abused. Even honey and peanut butter.
Compared to the risks of high-dose opiates, this stuff is SUPER safe.
Check out Tylenol and what it does to your liver when used long term. >shiver<

US medicine is wonderful...if you make 150K a year or more and can afford it.
Otherwise, it sucks. Yet the docs (and the patients) continue to follow the same patterns over and over.
It is unlikely your doc will approve. They will likely suggest Tylenol and Ibuprofen/percocet instead.
Kratom, in abusive amounts, will constipate you. Blood work in all liver function/kidneys/HDL's/cancer crap...IMPROVED for me.
My own doc is tickled and said, "You should not change a thing."
(Guess who started using Kratom, BTW. ...but still will not suggest it for patients...:( )
Until they can make a pill and scam people for 10 dollars a pop or more, they will never admit how it works.


Remember:
Online orders need to be carefully vetted.
The movie will identify an online outfit that properly checks the product.
Hope this helps at least one of you.
It has been the most uncomfortable thing I have ever typed here. So be it.
Time for chicken coop work. :) It is 66 degrees here today in the Blue Ridge mountains of Virginia. :)
 
My perspective is kratom is addictive, just like pain pills are addictive. Being from a plant or being around 1,000 years doesn't make something not addictive, especially since almost every street drug is from a plant. Common sense tells me anything that can be used as a substitute for heroin or narcotics is nothing to play around with.

As long as people know what they're getting into, more power to them. But I know too many people who ended up looking like they were on crack or meth before they went to rehab because someone told them kratom was ok to take. I suggest researching kratom and tolerance so you have an idea of what's happening if things start getting out of control. Checking out the sub on Reddict for people trying to get off kratom might be beneficial also.
Great post. Yes indeed! I have neuropathy. Very painful burning sensation in my feet. Doctors gave me all sorts of crap (pills) which did very little or nothing. Kratom is a life saver for me. I can get quality Kratom at smoke shops, no problem. I heard that that was not the case a few years ago. I take two or three tea spoons for a dose. I use it "as needed" which is about 2-4 times daily. It lowers my pain level by about 65-85%. I use Red Bali Kratom powder. Some batches are more potent than others, but the stuff works. If the government ever makes it illegal I'm afraid to think about living with that much pain.
 
This just came across my email about Kratom. Evidently not a totally innocent herb after all


https://www.outsideonline.com/2387546/kratom-safety
Okay, I see your post is 7 years old, but, all negative propaganda about kratom is funded by doctors and pharmacutical companies who make their money from people's pain and sickness. Period. I've been using kratom as an effective pain reliever from nerve pain for 3 years and it is god-send. No negative effects. Not addictive. People do abuse it sometimes, but I have no idea why. I get ZERO "buzz" from it. Use it responsibly like JD says and you will not have problems.
 
Okay, I see your post is 7 years old, but, all negative propaganda about kratom is funded by doctors and pharmacutical companies who make their money from people's pain and sickness. Period. I've been using kratom as an effective pain reliever from nerve pain for 3 years and it is god-send. No negative effects. Not addictive. People do abuse it sometimes, but I have no idea why. I get ZERO "buzz" from it. Use it responsibly like JD says and you will not have problems.
 
Okay, I see your post is 7 years old, but, all negative propaganda about kratom is funded by doctors and pharmacutical companies who make their money from people's pain and sickness. Period. I've been using kratom as an effective pain reliever from nerve pain for 3 years and it is god-send. No negative effects. Not addictive. People do abuse it sometimes, but I have no idea why. I get ZERO "buzz" from it. Use it responsibly like JD says and you will not have problems.
How do you know you're not addicted? Have you tried quitting?

Spoiler alert - addiction is not defined as "getting a buzz" when you use whatever it is. It is defined as "I get sick as hell when I try to stop".
 
How do you know you're not addicted? Have you tried quitting?

Spoiler alert - addiction is not defined as "getting a buzz" when you use whatever it is. It is defined as "I get sick as hell when I try to stop".
No, ma'am, I don't get sick when I go a few days without using it. Many things are addictive, including things which doctors prescribe and common things like sugar and caffiene. I don't understand your point, but I'm sure you mean well. Good day, ma'am.
 
I've read personal anecdotes from people that say they think that the Kratom is what almost killed them. Personal experience is not always a great guide when referring a product to someone else (even though that is what so many of us use) because any individual results may be extremely atypical. This is why statistical data from a large sample is so necessary for people to be able to make informed decisions.

The takeaway is be informed with as much research as you can reasonably do and be cautious in your usage and expectations.

This is also not to disparage any individual's results from a product either! Just be aware that not everybody reacts in the same manner to every substance!
 
I've read personal anecdotes from people that say they think that the Kratom is what almost killed them. Personal experience is not always a great guide when referring a product to someone else (even though that is what so many of us use) because any individual results may be extremely atypical. This is why statistical data from a large sample is so necessary for people to be able to make informed decisions.

The takeaway is be informed with as much research as you can reasonably do and be cautious in your usage and expectations.

This is also not to disparage any individual's results from a product either! Just be aware that not everybody reacts in the same manner to every substance!
100%. Lots of people die from allergic reactions to a multitude of things every day. I would suggest that anyone who is planning on putting any sort of new substance in to their body use common sense. But, I am acutely aware that "Common sense is not very common". So... Good advice, Frood :)
 
As someone that battled with neuropathy, I highly suggest that you go see a specialist regarding circulation. It could be from diabetes, or another condition, but the pain you're feeling is your nerve ends not getting enough blood flow and dying. Masking the pain is great I suppose. But you'll be bummed when you don't have the pain, but don't have feeling either. You can stop the advance of the problem while managing the pain. Don't just do the latter.

That's my advice. As always, do with it as you will.
 
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