How much do you have to drive to charge your house battery?

[One Awesome Inch]

I won't be driving my van that much. Maybe 20 minutes a day or 10 kilometres.

Is that enough to charge a house battery?

If I use a lower amp-hour battery will it be charged faster?

 

[jimindenver]

A lower Ah battery will charge faster up to a point, it will also run out of available power faster too.

A lot has to do with will the drive time be enough. How low is the battery? What kind of wiring between the alternator and the battery. Is it a second battery with isolation. How big is the alternator. Is this in the drive vehicle or on a trailer.

To start with 20 minutes isn't long enough even if the battery is just a little low. Even using a huge alternator, the battery acceptance rate drops after it hits 90%. After that it accepts very little over a long time.

On a trailer, the distance is long, the wire is little and if you don't have a isolator, the starting batteries voltage will be seen first and the amps reduced. Best case you will see 10a at the 7 pin.

Even running a big generator pushing a 55a converter for a few hours didn't bring my lightly discharged battery back up to 100%. The first day after using a fully charged battery brought a resting voltage of 12.5v. Run the generator for a few hours and the day after the resting voltage is 12.4v. The battery wasn't returned to 100%. The resting voltage will continue to be 12.4v as long as we stayed out UNTIL progressive loss of capacity will start having it come down farther and farther. That is why people that do rely on generators and even good converters will seek out hook ups every so often to get their banks back up to 100%.

 

[SternWake]

Impossible to answer. However, getting the battery upto near 100% every 14 cycles is paramount for battery life, and this task can take the alternator 8 hours minimum. Depending on voltage at battery and how long it took to get it to 80%.

Short drives every few days as the only charging source. Is a recipe for batterycide. Only those with very small electrical demands can get away with this. Everyone else will be complaining about their battery but should instead blame themselves for not understanding how batteries charge. And it is a mTter of time and electrical pressure

 

[One Awesome Inch]

Good to know. Sounds like having a house battery won't work for me.

More details:
Assume battery is 80% full or 20% discharged. 10gage wire with isolator for the second battery. Alternator would be standard on a Ford E150. No trailer.

My power needs are low though. Two computer fans on low (usually one) and a large screen smartphone pretty much covers it.

Perhaps I can get away with just using a standard car style battery, but a heavy duty one like they use in tow trucks?

 

[highdesertranger]

a lot of depends in this thread. depends on the size of battery, depends on the size of alternator, depends on the state of discharge, depends on how much you consider as full. for me it takes all day of driving to get back to full, 8 to 12 hours of driving time. highdesertranger

 

[jimindenver]

In many cases the more expensive "better" battery just has a longer warranty.

A starting battery does what it says it will, start things. It expels a fair portion of it's power to start something that in turn will replace the power quickly. It doesn't like it when the power isn't replaced quickly and it really doesn't like to be deep cycled. It has far fewer deep cycles in it than shallow ones, especially if you cycle it too far.

A deep cycle has thicker plates and is made to be charged, taken down and charged back up. It can handle being discharged farther with much less damage than a starting battery. Their resistance is higher so you may need more for some high powered loads but low and slow they are great.

The two popular choices are marine hybrids and two 6 volts. For shallow cycles the hybrid would be fine. Mine is 4 years old and while usually seeing shallower cycles, it has seen its share of deeper. You wont spend any more on a decent hybrid than you will a heavy duty starting battery, probably less.

 

[flying kurbmaster]

Good to know. Sounds like having a house battery won't work for me

what other choices do you have? your power consumption is fairly low I managed pre panel by charging my battery at work every couple of weeks, along with a bit of driving, not daily so who knows if you could manage you will soon find out, you might want a few lights and maybe a tv or some kind of music system some day as well so I would start thinking about a way to keep the battery charged like a solar panel eventually.

 

[SternWake]

I tend to forget not everybody is so OCD about battery maintenance and longevity as myself.

Batteries are consumables, you can make them last longer by returning them to full charge as often as possible, but at some point, even if treated well, they will die.
Getting them to fully charge is actually difficult, requiring time at voltages in the mid to high 14's with an occasional higher blast upto 16V for flooded batteries.

So, unless you are expecting to gets 400+ deep cycles from a battery, and treat them as a consumable, then much worry can be negated. Perhaps you can even exercise a warranty, but I don't like to encourage this approach as chronic undercharging is simply battery abuse and can easily kill a battery in half the warranty period.
For those with light usage, I can say use the current starter battery to power your needs, just carry jumper cables or a fully charged jumper pack for when you get the dreaded starter 'click'.
When the battery fails, as a starting battery will when cycled, get the biggest marine/dual purpose battery you can stuff in the original location.

And keep that jumper pack fully charged as much as possible. Do not use it to power items, keep it full.

If and when you decide on an auxiliary battery, get yourself a deep cycle and use thick wiring/cabling from alternator to isolation device to house battery.

10 AWG is pathetic for recharging a battery from the alternator.

A properly wired alternator can be an excellent XX% to 80% charger. It is that last 20% which takes another 8 hours, and if that last 20% is not achieved every 14 cycles, or so, then the battery capacity diminishes, and can diminish rapidly, and after this walk down in capacity, recovery is unlikely, and requires intensive care just to find out that it falls into the too little, too late, category.

 

[One Awesome Inch]

what other choices do you have? your power consumption is fairly low I managed pre panel by charging my battery at work every couple of weeks, along with a bit of driving, not daily so who knows if you could manage you will soon find out, you might want a few lights and maybe a tv or some kind of music system some day as well so I would start thinking about a way to keep the battery charged like a solar panel eventually.

Great point. My needs may change in the future and at that point I may need to make adjustments accordingly. However, I am not convinced solar would work well in the PNW where I live because its either cloudy or raining almost 7 months of the year.

Lighting will be handled by an excellent LED lantern I have on order from Amazon. Supposed to last 30 *continuous* days on low and 32 hours at 300 Lumens. If it lives up to its claims I might get a second one.

All entertainment needs will be met by large screen smartphone coupled with a wireless keyboard and mouse.

But yeah, I am still considering my power options. I may end up getting one of those jumper packs and charging it somewhere.

---

I tend to forget not everybody is so OCD about battery maintenance and longevity as myself.

Batteries are consumables, you can make them last longer by returning them to full charge as often as possible, but at some point, even if treated well, they will die.
Getting them to fully charge is actually difficult, requiring time at voltages in the mid to high 14's with an occasional higher blast upto 16V for flooded batteries.

So, unless you are expecting to gets 400+ deep cycles from a battery, and treat them as a consumable, then much worry can be negated. Perhaps you can even exercise a warranty, but I don't like to encourage this approach as chronic undercharging is simply battery abuse and can easily kill a battery in half the warranty period.
For those with light usage, I can say use the current starter battery to power your needs, just carry jumper cables or a fully charged jumper pack for when you get the dreaded starter 'click'.
When the battery fails, as a starting battery will when cycled, get the biggest marine/dual purpose battery you can stuff in the original location.

And keep that jumper pack fully charged as much as possible. Do not use it to power items, keep it full.

If and when you decide on an auxiliary battery, get yourself a deep cycle and use thick wiring/cabling from alternator to isolation device to house battery.

10 AWG is pathetic for recharging a battery from the alternator.

A properly wired alternator can be an excellent XX% to 80% charger. It is that last 20% which takes another 8 hours, and if that last 20% is not achieved every 14 cycles, or so, then the battery capacity diminishes, and can diminish rapidly, and after this walk down in capacity, recovery is unlikely, and requires intensive care just to find out that it falls into the too little, too late, category.

Excellent. Thank you.

Ultimately, if my 7 year battery only lasts one year because of hard use, I dont mind if it does the job I need. I'd rather buy a new battery every year than be powerless... if it comes to that.

Sounds like a marine/dual purpose battery is what I need.

 

[SternWake]

If a jumpstart is ever needed, then one needs to drive at least 2 hours to get the battery to ~80%, but there are many variables which affect this number.

Failing to at least hover in that 80% range, and hovering well lower than, that will quickly degrade a battery. The longer and the lower the battery sits, the more capacity it loses. and the harder it is to return to maximum remaining capacity( which has diminished so some degree).

So it is very possible to only get 3 months from a "7 year" battery, and the final month will be frustrating requiring many jumpstarts and not enough juice to power your needs, and even if you get it warrantied once, you will likely only be able to do this once.

Marine batteries are certainly better at handling deeper cycles, but are a far cry from a true deep cycle battery.

True Deep cycle batteries traditionally do not list a cold cranking amp figure, CCA, but many are now starting to list this measure of cranking power. While deep cycle batteries are not designed for cranking engines, they are certainly capable of doing this task, and It does not Damage them as some think.

The thing is a deep cycle battery versus the same size starting battery might have 40% less CCA available. So a deep cycle battery might need to be 40% larger to meet the minimum CCA rating for that vehicle. BUt if you can get a true Deep cycle battery in there, then it will withstand abuse better than a marine battery, abuse being deep discharges and not quite full recharges.

But true deep cycle 12v batteries are 30% more expensive than marine batteries and not very easy to find.

My Factory service manual calls for a battery with a minimum of 650 CCA. I have a large group31 Deep cycle USbattery rated at 620CCA and it has zero issues cranking my starter.

But I also have a smaller group27 Northstar AGM battery rated at 930 CCA and this battery cranks the starter sooo much faster it is downright impressive.

Anyhow, If you are every going to be able to plug into the power grid, you should have an outdoor Extension cord and a battery charger capable of at least 20 amps.

I use a 41 amp power supply with adjustable voltage and while this a high recharge rate for my flooded battery, my AGM requires high recharge rates.

I can just lower the voltage on this power supply, which lowers the amperage too, if I have a lot of time to recharge, but if time is limited, then 41 amps + whatever my solar can add on top is what I will allow a depleted battery to feed upon, and not feel bad about it.

What makes me feel bad for the battery is leaving them sit undercharged, and asking more from them.

One can improve the stock alternator charging circuit fairly easily without removing or changing anything stock. This will help to get the battery back upto 80% faster, but will not really do much after that point. But it will also allow short drives to be much more effective.

It consists of adding a Fused Parallel cable from alternator(+) to battery(+) and adding another (-) cable from battery (-) to engine block, or alternator (-) stud.

OEM charging circuits are just adequate for vehicle loads and minimal current for recharging the slightly depleted starting battery, they were not designed for recharging deeply cycled batteries on top of all vehicle loads so minimum copper was used at the factory.

Those relying solely on alternators must resign themselves to more frequent battery replacement, but thicker copper between alternator and battery will reduce the frequency by a good amount.

 

[One Awesome Inch]

Interesting. Definitely going to look into those details further.

Up here in Canada we have Canadian Tire as our national automotive /hardware store.

This seems to be their best dual purpose marine.

Thoughts?

Brand Name - Nautilus
Group Size - 27
Weight - 58 lbs
Total Warranty Period - 30
Voltage - 12
Application - Starting and Deep Cycle
Dimensions - 12-3/4 x 6-13/16 x 9-7/16-in
Reserve Capacity - 160
Free Warranty Replacement Period - 12
Amp Hours - 100
Cranking Amps - 730

Should do the job on a Ford E150 right? Where I live it only gets to 0 celcius about a week out of the year.

I am definitely going to look into a deep cycle with a decent CCA as well.

 

[LeeRevell]

CCA - cold cranking amps - meaningless for deep cycle house batteries. You want as many amp/hours as you can afford.

 

[SternWake]

58 Lbs for a group 27 is pretty respectable, usually they are around 52, whereas a true deep cycle is around 60 or perhaps 62 Lbs. A starting battery group 27 might only be 47 Lbs, but don't quote me on that. With flooded Lead Acid deep cycle batteries, the more lead, the heavier, the better.

AGMS tend to be heavier for the same capacity but they blur the line between starting and deep cycle too.

Nautilus, for years, and maybe still, south of the border, was an Exide label and exide manufactured battery. Exide does not have the best reputation these days, and are having current issues, but I've no Idea is CT is contracting Exide to make their 'Nautilus'.

I owned one a decade ago, and it liked to spew electrolyte past the caps. Same with others who had the same battery. On one forum a ways back somebody claimed to have an electrolyte spewing issue, and I asked if it was an Exide Nautilus. It was.

Go onto an Autozone type site and plug in a battery for your van and engine size and see which size they recommend for your Van, then you can generalize the amount of CCA ford Specified for that Engine/Van, or better yet seek the minimum CCA Ford specified for your Van.

See how much room is around your current battery and see how much larger of a battery can be stuffed into its place.

I think mine called for a group 24 and 650 CCA minimum, I could fit a group 27 in there no issues. Now I have a group 31 in there, but it just barely allows the hood to latch.

In general group 27/29 and 31 batteries are a bit petulant and harder to get to a full true charge, requiring even higher voltages be held for longer.

My USbattery Group31 basically requires it be brought upto and then held at 14.9v for~ 2 hours and then~ 2 hours at 15.3v for specific gravity to approach maximum when cycled daily, and recharged low and slow by 200 watts of solar. After 15 deep cycles or som the specific gravity still walked downward, even with these higher than normal charge voltages, and I'll crank voltage upto 16v until Specific gravity gets to 1.280 or above, and then the battery behaves better afterward, before the next walk down.

Luckily my Van's voltage regulator allows 14.9v, unfortunately, sometimes it decides 13.7v is plenty, and charging slows to a crawl, even with a thirsty battery.

Again, I am seeking maximum service life from my batteries and go to the efforts required to achieve this. These efforts are not worth it to most and replacing batteries more often reduces stress and effort. Shooting for a years service of 365 cycles is a good goal, but chronic underchargers might fight to get 3 months, depending on multitudes of variables.

Plugging in overnight every two weeks attempting to bring the battery to maximum specific gravity can do wonders for battery longevity when Van Dwelling.

The deeper the discharge cycles are, the more important this can be.

 

[Almost There]

It didn't take me but a few minutes to confirm that Nautilus batteries are made by Exide.

It also didn't take me long to find a whole raft of bad reviews.

If you're looking for nationwide warranties take a look at the DieHard battery line. Kal Tires is nationwide and had what looks like a great warranty program (I've never bought batteries from them btw).

What are good north American wide brands of batteries while we're on the subject. I'll be on the hunt for mine come this spring!

 

[SternWake]

Hard to put a good or bad label on any given battery. There is much relabelling, building to a price point and just manufacturing inconsistencies to paint any given brand with a brush.

Many people love to say how good interstate batteries are, but interstate manufactures no battery, they are battery marketers, and their starting batteries are made by Johnson controls and their deep cycle 6v batteries are made by US battery, and this Might be different for different parts of North America.

Johnson controls also makes a majority of Wal mart batteries, but does this mean Interstate= Wally world in quality?

I think not but cannot prove it.

A cheap quality battery properly recharged will outlast the best quality lead acid battery chronically undercharged, so I say buy the heaviest battery, freshest battery you can shoehorn into the location where it will safely reside, and do your best to meet the charging specifics for that particular battery and do your best to keep it as fully charged as possible without spending more money or time than it would cost to just replace it earlier.

Bring a bathroom scale to the store, bring a voltmeter, and look for date codes. Buy the highest resting voltage battery that has the newest date code and the least amount of dust on it. The scale won't lie, but the voltmeter and date code stickers might depending on the seller.

You do not want an old battery, and many Lead acid batteries that go on sale, are old batteries that are already capacity compromised.