Ford: Spark Plug Socket won't grab!

[dr_nelson]

So, today I took out the driver and passenger seats and that nasty smelly carpet. While at it, I changed the spark plugs on my 2001 Ford with the 5.4L Triton engine. Actually, I only changed five, because the sixth spark plug just won't come out.

It seems that the spark plug socket is not able to fully go inside and grab the spark plug. I noticed on the other spark plugs that I removed, there was quite a bit of dirt on the upper threads (away from the spark plug tip). Ford decided to only make like 4 - 5 threads in the cylinder head, so the remaining 9 - 12 threads of the spark plug stick out (and mine collected dirt).
But I have the feeling there is more than just dirt... the socket will not go further down and hence is just spinning loosely without grabing the spark plug.

I tried with sticky tape to grab whatever might be down there, no luck.
I tried slightly tapping the socket with a hammer, no luck.
I tried a magnet, no luck.
Any suggestions?
Tomorrow, I'll try vacuum or blowing air into it. What do I have to google to get pressurized air with a hose? Can I get that in the big home improvement boxes, or at a car parts shop? (I was born and raised in Switzerland, so my english is not so good when it comes to those special terms...)

Any help appreciated!

Btw, the guys that designed the engine compartment should be hanged. There is so little room to access the coils and the plugs

 

[hepcat]

First the 5.4L Triton engine is a V8 so you have eight spark plugs, not six.  The spark plug issues with the Tritons are well documented... this from Wikipedia:

[font='Linux Libertine', Georgia, Times, serif]Spark plug issues[/font]
2-valve 4.6 L, 5.4 L, and 6.8 L engines found in many 1997-2008 Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury vehicles may have aluminum cylinder heads with threads for spark plugs that are stripped, missing, or otherwise insufficiently bored out. Ford acknowledges this issue in TSB 07-21-2 as well as earlier TSBs. Ford's TSB does not state that this issue is caused by owner neglect. Ford's only authorized repair procedure for out-of-warranty vehicles is to use the LOCK-N-STITCH aluminum insert and tool kit. For vehicles under the New Vehicle Limited Warranty, Ford will only cover the replacement of the entire cylinder head; however, the Ford recommended spark plug service interval extends beyond the duration of the New Vehicle Limited Warranty.

3-valve 5.4 L and 6.8 L engines built before 10/9/07 and 3-valve 4.6 Ls built before 11/30/07 found in many 2004–2008 Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury vehicles have an issue with difficult-to-remove spark plugs, which can cause part of the spark plug to become seized in the cylinder head. The source of the problem is a unique plug design that uses a 2-piece shell, which often separates, leaving the lower portion of the spark plug stuck deep in the engine's cylinder head. The 2-piece OE spark plug design is intrinsically flawed, thus making it susceptible to this problem. Ford acknowledges this issue in TSB 08-7-6 as well as earlier TSBs. Ford's TSB does not state that this issue is caused by owner neglect. The TSB provides a special procedure for spark plug removal on these engines. For situations in which the spark plug has partially broken off in the cylinder head, Ford distributes multiple special tools for removing the seized portion of the plug. Their TSB explains the multiple procedures required for handling the different cases/situations that occur when parts of plugs are seized in these engines. This repair is covered for vehicles under warranty; however, the Ford recommended spark plug service interval extends beyond the duration of the New Vehicle Limited Warranty.

There are just all kinds of issues get them out, in, and keeping them from blowing out.  Sorry I don't have any good ideas for your particular problem...  good luck!

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

I'd say you're pretty lucky you got 5 out with out any issues! Many new cars have the space problems under the hood, my buddy was a Chevy mechanic for about 12 years and for lots of repairs you had to take the top end or front clip off just to access what should be an easy routine repair.

You might want to take it to a Ford dealer to have the remaining 3 removed and save yourself the headache.

Your English looks really good to me, better than many people born and raised here. I think the term you are looking for is an air compressor. You can buy an air compressor at Home Depot or Lowes, the compressor, hose and air nozzle will probably cost around $150, so no sure what your budget is for the repair, but it could be an expensive experiment that doesn't yield any results.

 

[highdesertranger]

yep you have the infamous Ford spark plug issue. if it were me I would take it to a mechanic that had experience and tools to work on these and have the problem fixed on all the cylinders. not just the bad one. highdesertranger

 

[dr_nelson]

First the 5.4L Triton engine is a V8 so you have eight spark plugs, not six.  The spark plug issues with the Tritons are well documented... this from Wikipedia:

There are just all kinds of issues get them out, in, and keeping them from blowing out.  Sorry I don't have any good ideas for your particular problem...  good luck!

Yes, I bought 8 spark plugs. I just got stuck at the sixth and it got dark. And because of the spark plug issue, I wanted to change them (recently got the van).

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Btw, the guys that designed the engine compartment should be hanged. There is so little room to access the coils and the plugs

Yeah.  I used to change my own plugs, but I've given that up.  On some vehicles, you can only reach certain plugs from underneath, with the vehicle up on a lift.  These days I let a professional deal with it.  Which I suspect is what the manufacturers had in mind when they designed stuff like that.

 

[dr_nelson]

Thing is, I never had the spark plug issue with my 2005 Mustang, and I am aware of the spark plug issue. There are just a couple of things to keep in mind when changing the spark plugs, e.g. seafoam, only quarter turns, using a torque wrench, etc.

I still think I am not having the "common spark plug issue" here. Nothing has blown out. And the spark plug is not broken. If the spark plug was broken, then at least the upper half should come out, no? The socket turns so lightly, I know it is just spinning loose without getting deep enough to engage the spark plug. Hence, I believe something fell down there that shouldn't. I really hope so.

I'll try again tomorrow, and if it doesn't work, I will have to take it to Ford.
Thank you guys!

Btw, I have the 2 valve 5.4 L

 

[GotSmart]

You can find little mirrors on extentions at auto arts stores.

 

[BadSaver]

There may be a special spark plug wrench that fits the hole. Google it and you'll see. A friend at work with an older Ford had his spark plug pop out while he was on vacation with his family. It really put him in a jam. He did the insert thing then traded it in. Anyways, good luck.

 

[dr_nelson]

No luck so far...
At least I have changed all the other 7 spark plugs. The driver's side is definitely less accessible, especially cylinder 3 and 2:
[img=329x317]http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g245/dr_nelson/Van%20Build/cylinder-map%201.jpg[/img]


Tried taking a pic with my mobile of the inside of cylinder 3. At least I know a spark plug IS there:
[img=574x430]http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g245/dr_nelson/Van%20Build/IMG_0046.jpg[/img]


Another thing I noticed is that coil boot of cylinder 3 (with the spark plug that won't come out) is much shorter. What the heck??!!?!
[img=354x265]http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g245/dr_nelson/Van%20Build/IMG_0050.jpg[/img]

Even the spring wires inside the boot are much shorter:
[img=671x503]http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g245/dr_nelson/Van%20Build/IMG_0052.jpg[/img]

I posted in a ford forum... maybe they know why my coil boot on cylinder 3 is shorter. I don't know whether the previous owner had the spark-plug-thread-insert installed on it.

 

[dr_nelson]

The f***ing spark plug of cylinder 3 is finally out! Man, took me almost all day to figure this out, and I had to buy an endoscopic camera and a set of deep sockets.

After looking into the hole, I saw that cylinder 3 had those thread inserts. Obviously, one of the previous owners had that done. What it looked like was the spark plug sitting on top of a "nut".
[img=426x568]http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g245/dr_nelson/Van Build/IMG_0059.jpg[/img]


Whereas in the other cylinders, the spark plug was just sitting not on a "nut":

[img=447x595]http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g245/dr_nelson/Van Build/IMG_0061.jpg[/img]

After removing the spark plug, you can see that thread insert:
[img=429x322]http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g245/dr_nelson/Van Build/IMG_0071.jpg[/img]

Now, the short coil boot makes sense, because of the thread insert, a different sized spark plug was required.
I had to use a 9/16 deep socket instead of the ordinary 5/8 spark plug socket to remove the spark plug from cylinder 3.
Left: Short coil boot from cylinder 3 with a Motorcraft PZH1F spark plug.
Right: "Normal" coil boot from another cylinder with a Motorcarft AGSF 22 WM spark plug.
[img=443x584]http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g245/dr_nelson/Van Build/FullSizeRender.jpg[/img]

But not so fast... I am not done. I have to get that "special" spark plug to finish this job.


Saved some money not seeing a Ford mechanic. But took me all day. At least, now I know how to replace spark plugs on my van. And I do not have that common spark plug issue. I will not have that common spark plug issue. Man, compared to changing the oil on the van... changing oil was such a breeze. No jacking up, no removing plastic covers from underneath... just crawl under there and change the oil and the filter. I think it took me only 15 mins (on other cars, I usually need 40 mins).

 

[LeeRevell]

Bravo! Sure feels great when we figure out the fix and "get 'er done". Well done!

 

[Wabbit]

Link to endoscopic camera? Plz?

That's great you got it done! Gratz Man!

 

[dr_nelson]

I got my camera from Harbour Freight for $70.
It runs off of 4 AA batteries, and has a LED light that you can adjust the brightness (at the end of the "hose", where the camera is).
I was suprised by the quality of the display.
[img=453x453]http://www.harborfreight.com/media/...d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_25756.jpg[/img]
http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-inspection-camera-61839.html

 

[Gary68]

i'm calling b.s. on whoever did the plug insert,they pulled the head and only fixed one plug,b.s. junk mech
i would question everything they touched

 

[dr_nelson]

i'm calling b.s. on whoever did the plug insert,they pulled the head and only fixed one plug,b.s. junk mech
i would question everything they touched

There is a method where you insert the thread-insert without pulling the head, and drilling directly through the spark plug hole.
Also, the cylinder 3 seems to be a very common one for blowing out or breaking the spark plug. Apparently, only few people have all cylinders "repaired".

But I agree, if you had the head pulled off, then do all of them (along with some other stuff while you're at it).

 

[highdesertranger]

there is no way I would do this job without pulling the head. once the heads off then you fix all cylinders. doing this repair with the head on the engine is poor mechanical practice. highdesertranger

 

[ArtW]

I had a similar repair done on a 76 Toyota Celica with the 22r engine, the mechanic who did it did it with the head in place, using a really greased up tap and backing out frequently to clean the shavings off
Apparently he did all right, the engine was strong running and gave no problems
Of course it still would have been better to pull the head, but then you gotta replace head gasket, and might have to shave the head
It was an older car already, so we chose the cheaper, easier option

 

[rvpopeye]

Two thumbs up for your effort .
That camera is one cool tool !
You could probably get some $$ back by renting it out!!!

 

[Alcatraz]

Thing is, I never had the spark plug issue with my 2005 Mustang, and I am aware of the spark plug issue. There are just a couple of things to keep in mind when changing the spark plugs, e.g. seafoam, only quarter turns, using a torque wrench, etc.

I still think I am not having the "common spark plug issue" here. Nothing has blown out. And the spark plug is not broken. If the spark plug was broken, then at least the upper half should come out, no? The socket turns so lightly, I know it is just spinning loose without getting deep enough to engage the spark plug. Hence, I believe something fell down there that shouldn't. I really hope so.

I'll try again tomorrow, and if it doesn't work, I will have to take it to Ford.
Thank you guys!

Btw, I have the 2 valve 5.4 L

You been lucky on the Mustang. Occasionally they blow out of the engine when the threads have  been weaken over the years.
I have a 98 Gt convertible and love it.