Feeding dog frugal/healthy [split from no cooking food stamp healthy approach]

[jeanontheroad]

Bvanevery, mange is caused by mites and other skin parasites. If you want to help your dog, you need to get him in to the vet. Diet is not going to do it. If you really think it is mange, be aware that the mites can spread to you, too. So, then there are 2 medical bills instead of 1.

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Btw, cheese is fatty. If the pooch needs more fat, shy don't you give him some?

 

[bvanevery]

Bvanevery, mange is caused by mites and other skin parasites. If you want to help your dog, you need to get him in to the vet. Diet is not going to do it. If you really think it is mange, be aware that the mites can spread to you, too. So, then there are 2 medical bills instead of 1.

It's off-topic but I h​

ave to object. The problem went on for months, before I started thinking it could be mange. I didn't catch anything. Mom didn't catch anything when I visited her, nor did her cats. All dogs have the mange mites, but their immune systems typically keep them in check. Nutritional deficiency and allergy become relevant here, as they increase the burdens on the immune system. I did not have to go to the vet, I bought this sulfur based stuff and it seems to be working. The skin is healing, he's not scratching himself to death like before. Probably in 2 weeks I'll pronounce him cured.

Choosing to pursue home remedies may have been slower than going to the vet, as I tried a number of anti-mange things that did not work at all. That said, the 2nd over the counter mange treatment I bought at Tractor Supply worked. I've noticed there's a conspiracy not to sell sulfur based products at the major pet stores. It took awhile for me to get to Tractor Supply because they aren't typically near me and not the 1st venue I'd usually consider for over the counter treatments.

However in the worst case, mange can take as many as 6 visits to a vet to treat, shots every time. I don't approve of those kinds of chemical measures taken with an animal, and the expense, when other alternatives exist. Much like I don't think I have to live in a house, I don't think I have to run to a vet when there's a problem. I do think I have to do a lot of research on the internet, absorb information, and try things, and I may have to "bail out" and go to the vet if I don't find something that works. I realize that a lot of people don't want to go through the trouble of learning all this stuff; however, they shouldn't avoid the learning curve out of fear. Vets in many cases do not have magic answers or firm knowledge. You just start paying them to investigate the problem, and they usually proceed with the quickest and most profitable remedies that the big pharma and chemical industries can devise.

I take my own counsel on how to feed my dog too. I do not believe in dog food, it is agricultural waste that is not inspected even to the minimal standard that humans have in their own food supply. Current experimental diet is Moroccan sardines, olive oil, cottage cheese, and ricotta cheese. I'm trying to find a good fat balance for him, since that's what the sardines don't have. Whether cultured milk products are good for him or not remains to be seen.

 

[WheelEstate USA]

Bvanevery, mange is caused by mites and other skin parasites. If you want to help your dog, you need to get him in to the vet. Diet is not going to do it. If you really think it is mange, be aware that the mites can spread to you, too. So, then there are 2 medical bills instead of 1.

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Btw, cheese is fatty. If the pooch needs more fat, shy don't you give him some?

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Have to agree with Jean. You are the steward caring for this animal...take as much care of his health needs as your own.

You stated: "Sardines, expiring fatty meats, olive oil, and trash can / ground scores for the dog."

We don't allow Bindi to eat garbage off the streets, nor trash cans.
If you can't afford to feed a good diet perhaps you should find someone who can take proper care of the dog's health needs.

I'm reminded of this issue every time I see someone with a dog "flying cardboard" on a corner. If one can't fulfill their own needs why would they take on the responsibility of another life??

 

[bvanevery]

We don't allow Bindi to eat garbage off the streets, nor trash cans.

Seemingly because you are afraid of such things. Whereas a dog is a natural scavenger, and food that ends up in trash cans is typically well sealed in styrofoam containers and tightly tied plastic bags. I eat that food if the weather has been cold enough, if it's come out of a restaurant recently enough. I don't get sick, nevermind my dog.

If you can't afford to feed a good diet perhaps you should find someone who can take proper care of the dog's health needs.

I afford just fine. Perhaps the low budget emphasis of this thread has become obscured. Frankly I afford so well, I spend 2..3 times as much money on feeding my dog as most people do, and still manage to feed myself just fine.

I'm reminded of this issue every time I see someone with a dog "flying cardboard" on a corner.

Which wouldn't happen to be me.

If one can't fulfill their own needs why would they take on the responsibility of another life??

I don't presume that the buying habits of moderately affluent consumers, are the only ways to properly support a dog. Especially, given what I know about how easy it is for a homeless person to obtain food in certain cities.

 

[VanDwellerMod]

I split the above posts from the "Cooking" section to this, more appropriate, "Traveling with Pets" section.

A reminder: We are passionate about our dogs and other pets, but please respect and *be nice* in these passionate discussions with one another.

 

[WheelEstate USA]

I'm sorry bvan, but I'm not accustomed to eating other people's garbage.
If that's your style, well fine.


(mod, see, I'm being nice....but honest if you don't mind).

 

[sl1966]

I don't think all mfg'd dog food = bad.

I used to feed my girl Royal Canin and lots of table scraps. The turning point was the results of her checkup when she was seven. Her blood panel showed high levels of ALT or AST (can't recall which atm) in her blood. For anyone unfamiliar it's a liver enzyme that basically leaks into the blood when said liver is malfunctioning. This can be indicative of a worse problem. So when you combine the food/table scraps and a complete lack of exercise this was inevitable. To further complicate matters her stool was starting to become looser and looser as the months went on. She was seven pounds overweight at that time. This was clearly all my fault.

I happened to relocate to a new city at that time and was still researching different diets. I was on track to discovering this on my own, but my new roommate turned me onto the following foods (which is what he feeds his dog). Acana Regionals along with Stella & Chewy's raw meat patties (the small ones that come in the frozen 3pd bag). This food is expensive, but the results have been worth it. In addition to the food we started hiking weekly and the pounds dropped off. I had a blood panel done every six months to monitor for the first year and a half, but her levels returned to normal within the first six months and stayed that way. We went back to annual checkups. She turned nine last November and her last exam showed her to be still in perfect health.

Now I'm not saying this will work for your pooch, or preaching. I was lucky that our situation wasn't as complex as others. Every dog is different so solutions have to be tailored to suit them. I simply wouldn't discount anything without researching it first.

However, I did stop buying mfg'd treats. I switched to carrots. It's healthy in so many ways, safe for dogs, and actually helps to keep their teeth clean. You can get a big bag of baby carrots from costco for 4.50. I feed her twice a day and toss in 4 carrots with each meal.

Sorry for the long post.

 

[Lucky mike]

I also Feed my dog carrots as treats , she cant seem to get enough of them.....as far as dog food I keep a variety of high end soft & dry with a few homemade .....I cut up and bake(solar oven) sweet potatoes into strips and Chicken breast until it is dehydrated....I do the same with beef cuts which are just different strips of leftovers that can be purchased at most butchers for short cash.....I only eat fresh onboard so I dont expect someone without facilities to live by my means....(I miss a good can of Chili)

My dog eats almost the same as I do...if Im having rice with veggies , she is 2 except she gets egg and chicken or beef in her's!!!

 

[bvanevery]

I'm sorry bvan, but I'm not accustomed to eating other people's garbage.

What you call garbage, I call leftovers. If time, temperature, and the wrapping job have sufficiently preserved them. One could worry about communicable diseases from eating other people's leftovers. I don't though. I have some trust that the odds are against other people being seriously ill, and I think my own immune system is pretty strong. I realized yesterday, aside from 1 instance when I got a really serious flu that I thought was food poisoning, I haven't been to a doctor in 20 years.

As you said, you are not "accustomed". I wasn't, until I had the need to save money. It started because I was already doing it for my dog. Then I started realizing, some of this stuff is in such pristine condition, and coming from fairly expensive restaurants, why am I being squeamish about this? So I ate it. And nothing happened. Except that it was delicious. So I did it again, many times.

My actual worry has been whether some of the stuff has been good for the dog, not me. It was trivial to find loads and loads of pizza. The itch thing was going on and I wondered if it was because of the street food. Or airborne allergies. After months, I finally thought of mange. Then I talked to a person at a pet food store, and she didn't think from my description that it was mange. She questioned the "all chicken gizzard" diet I'd been feeding him. She was familiar with raw diets, but didn't think I was giving him enough nutrition, and that it could be an allergy too. I don't know if she's right, time will tell, but she provided a good piece of the puzzle.

Dog's gonna eat hard boiled eggs with me from now on. Which means I don't take the allergy theory nearly as seriously as the nutrition theory. Heck, maybe we'll both end up as meat minimalists and eat nearly the same things!

 

[jeanontheroad]

My father in law used to work as a field technician for a company that made packaging equipment for food companies throughout the country. I don't know if it is still true, but he used to say that dog food companies had to meet stricter standards and regulations than people food companies did.

Bvnaevery, since your dog has been miserable for some time and your diligent but unguided research has not been successful at a relieving the problem, perhaps it would be be quicker and less trouble for you to take advantage of the decade or so of training and hands-on internship a veterinarian has to ofer.

 

[bvanevery]

To reiterate, the sulphur seems to be working. If it does work, it is also a remedy I can sustain in the future. There are cheaper ways to get sulphur than the prepared remedy I paid $18 for.

To emphasize, some of us don't have the option of spending hundreds at a vet. Your vet isn't going to tell you to go buy a $18 bottle of sulphur. Their "guidance" is different.

Sure I could fix your computer problems or your car too... and charge you buckets of money for it. Ideologically I don't believe in it. I would either fix your computer quickly for $0 or tell you to get a new part, don't waste your money on computer repair labor. Fixing your car, I just don't want the liability if a repair doesn't quite work out. But I do my own work, on my own car. Similarly, I'm willing to do my own work on my own dog, to the extent that I can.

We have to consider the various "specialist" aspects of our society that are designed to make us helpless, and what we are going to do about them.

 

[bvanevery]

I don't know if it is still true, but he used to say that dog food companies had to meet stricter standards and regulations than people food companies did.

It isn't, given the thousands of dogs that died of the various poisonings a few years ago, and the recalls on dog jerky treats that are ever present and ongoing. If you feed dog food, you are rolling dice. Even high end brands like Innova were tainted; nothing is safe on the basis of reputation.

People are also led to believe that feeding your dog real food is difficult. It isn't. What does take some doing, is making sure it's nutritionally complete. I may have erred at times in that.

 

[sl1966]

nothing is safe on the basis of reputation.

Which makes everything fair game for being potentially unsafe. There are just as many news stories regarding tainted human food that sickened or even killed. No sense fretting over it since it happens regardless of how careful or careless anyone was.

Keep up safe practices to the best of your ability for yourself and your pooch. That's the best any of us can do.

 

[bvanevery]

I think you're underestimating the number of dogs that died, vs. humans that died. The USDA has some controls and enforcement on the human food supply; these are lacking for dogs.

 

[Sameer]

This is an interesting Thread. Dogs are carnivores. The vet has told me we bath our dogs excessively. Mr. Pico gets a bath once or twice a year. Never has fleas or Ticks. A dog need good protein. I buy a good $9 dollar bag of dog food once a month (small dog). My dog is healthy and very energetic and happy.

 

[sl1966]

I think you're underestimating the number of dogs that died, vs. humans that died. The USDA has some controls and enforcement on the human food supply; these are lacking for dogs.

I can't speak at all about whether hunan or animal food controls are regulated better since I've never done the research. Nor has there been a comparative study done to date, that I know of.

Statistically you're correct. More animals died, but you have to take into account one simple fact. When a person isn't feeling well they usually do or say something about it right away. When dogs become ill they often mask symptoms. Sometimes, by the time you find out it's too late. If they could talk or people learned how to read the signs better, the dog might have received medical care in time.

 

[bvanevery]

I guess you're not aware of what happened with Menu Foods. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_pet_food_recalls It's not a question of conjecturing on long term effects. Poison in the food, lots of dogs die. In the pet food industry it's a regularly repeating event, varying mainly in the number of deaths.

 

[StarEcho]

While I'm definitely NOT a fan of the FDA, they do have rules for pet foods, so be aware that dog food IS regulated and there are mechanisms to report problems with animal food products.

http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/Products/AnimalFoodFeeds/PetFood/default.htm

You can actually look up all the recalls for animal/veterinary products in the US for any given year. Just like you can look up recalls for infant formula (which are FAR more than you'd think or appreciate!)

I won't argue that it's healthier to feed your dog "real" food. It's also healthier to feed human babies human milk. We each have to take responsibility for the decisions we make that affect not only us but other lives depending on us.

 

[sl1966]

I guess you're not aware of what happened with Menu Foods.

If you're gonna guess, then it was a wrong one. Had a friend who lost her pup due to that brand. It sucked what she went thru and no one should ever have to go through it regardless of species. However I'll have you know she was one of the people who confirmed that Acana was also a great good after my roommate did. She's become uber anal about questionable dog foods since that. So yeah, life still happens.

 

[bvanevery]

While I'm definitely NOT a fan of the FDA, they do have rules for pet foods, so be aware that dog food IS regulated and there are mechanisms to report problems with animal food products.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/consumerawareness/a/The-Us-Food-Safety-System.htm

Differing Authorities

All of the federal laws listed above empower the USDA and FDA with different regulatory and enforcement authorities. For example, food products under FDA's jurisdiction may be sold to the public without the agency's prior approval. On the other hand, food products under USDA's jurisdiction must generally be inspected and approved as meeting federal standards before being marketed.

Under current law, UDSA continuously inspects slaughter facilities and examines each slaughtered meat and poultry carcass. They also visit each processing facility at least once during each operating day. For foods under FDA's jurisdiction, however, federal law does not mandate the frequency of inspections.