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gringogarrett

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I'm trying to convert a cargo van myself into a camper van. (I may be in over my head!). I anticipate my electrical needs will be: a few LED lights, a 3 to 4 cubic foot compressor fridge, and a ceiling fan. I'd like to just power the fridge with 12 volts. (I won't be in campgrounds). I may go 3 to 5 days at a time boondocking. I'd like to have one (or 2?) AMG batteries and a 200 watt solar suitcase. I'd appreciate any suggestions re: 1. What fridge draws the fewest amps? 2. What size battery (-ies) will I need? 3. Will a 200 watt panel be sufficient to keep the battery charged? Thanks in advance for any input out there!
 
you're going to have to do some research. I can tell you my Engel's draw 2.5a @ 12.6v. that's when they are running of course they don't run all the time. do some research on the refers and pick one out. what about recharging your phone, lap top, anything else? what you need to do is,
1. add up your electrical use
2. size your battery(s) accordingly
3. size your solar to your battery(s)
so we can help you but we need a little more specific info on your usage. highdesertranger
 
3-4 cube fridge is mighty big for 1 person for a few days. We have a 1.1 for 2 of us...it is a bit small, but doable. I just have to limit how many beers I keep in it and use the get one, add one system.
We tried a Whynter 2.7 and it took up more space than we wanted to dedicate to a fridge.
YMMV ;)
 
My 1.8 cubic foot vitrifrigo c51is( front loader) is rarely packed full with just myself. Its amp draw starts at 2.7 amps and tapers to 2.2 amps by the end of the cycle, which is about 5 minutes. Average consumption is about 18Ah in 24 hours in 70F average ambient temps.

Any 12v compressor fridge is going to be similar in amp draw for the size. Best thing one can do for efficiency is add extra insulation and make sure the cooling unit is not bathed in air it itself has heated. Get fresh air across the condenser/ compressor to extract the heat generated.

How much solar you need is really determined by how much sun you expect to get. Southwest desert being much different than 50'th parallel type of in the trees.

I have 198watts of solar and only 90AH of AGM battery total, including starting battery. The solar alone is not quite enough to keep this battery happiest, though it is enough to replace my electrical consumption+10%. The issue with AGMS is they occasionally need a higher amp recharge from their most depleted state, or their capacity diminishes more rapidly than desirable, and faster than the same size wet/flooded battery would.
The implementation of alternator recharging and driving in the morning can solve this requirement of AGMS.

The truly full recharge is of greater importance with AGM batteries as well, compared to wet/flooded batteries. So AGMs solve the offgassing issue, but when cycled below 80%, they require higher charge currents and full charges more often than their wet/flooded counterparts, and cost 2x as much, and hurt twice as bad if they are killed prematurely.

There are front loading fridges and chest style 12v compressor fridges, The chest style being more electrically efficient

NovaKool
Vitrifrigo,
Truckfridge
Norcold
Dometic
ARB
Whytner
Isotherm
Engel
Waeco
Edgestar

Are the 12v compressor manufacturers/brands I can think of.

Some choose the inexpensive 120v dorm fridge powered by an inverter. Some of these fridges are really powerhogs, and will require twice the battery capacity, twice the solar, and a large inverter that can handle the start up surge, turned on and running 24/7 which effectively eliminates any savings by buying a 120vac dorm fridge vs a 12v compressor fridge.

My 800 watt MSW inverter would likely not be enough to handle the start up surge of a 120vac compressor dorm fridge, and it consumes 0.68 amps turned on, powering nothing. Which over an hour period, is more electrical consumption than my 12v fridge consumes 85% of the time.

Someone here reported a brand of 120vAC dorm fridge which worked well on just a 300 watt pure sine wave inverter and was not that inefficient, but I do not remember the thread or poster's handle or brand of dorm fridge.

There is a question of how well a 120vAC dorm fridge will handle movement inside a vehicle, and one needs to implement a method to keep the door closed when driving.
 
bindi&us said:
Rule of thumb is one watt of solar per Ah of battery. A little extra solar is always good too.

Use HDR's outline and you can't go wrong ;)

Thanks for the advice! I appreciate it.
 
SternWake said:
My 1.8 cubic foot vitrifrigo c51is( front loader) is rarely packed full with just myself.  Its amp draw starts at 2.7 amps and tapers to 2.2 amps by the end of the cycle, which is about 5 minutes.  Average consumption is about 18Ah in 24 hours in 70F average ambient temps.

Any 12v compressor fridge is going to be similar in amp draw for the size.  Best thing one can do for efficiency is add extra insulation and make sure the cooling unit is not bathed in air it itself has heated.  Get fresh air across the condenser/ compressor to extract the heat generated.

How much solar you need is really determined by how much sun you expect to get. Southwest desert being much different than 50'th parallel type of in the trees.

I have 198watts of solar and only 90AH of AGM battery total, including starting battery.  The solar alone is not quite enough to keep this battery happiest, though it is enough to replace my electrical consumption+10%.  The issue with AGMS is they occasionally need a higher amp recharge from their most depleted state, or their capacity diminishes more rapidly than desirable, and faster than the same size wet/flooded battery would.
The implementation of alternator recharging and driving in the morning can solve this requirement of AGMS.

The truly full recharge is of greater importance with AGM batteries as well, compared to wet/flooded batteries. So AGMs solve the offgassing issue, but when cycled below 80%, they require higher charge currents and full charges more often than their wet/flooded counterparts, and cost 2x as much, and hurt twice as bad if they are killed prematurely.

There are front loading fridges and chest style 12v compressor fridges, The chest style being more electrically efficient

NovaKool
Vitrifrigo,
Truckfridge
Norcold
Dometic
ARB
Whytner
Isotherm
Engel
Waeco
Edgestar

Are the 12v compressor manufacturers/brands I can think of.

Some choose the inexpensive 120v dorm fridge powered by an inverter.  Some of these fridges are really powerhogs, and will require twice the battery capacity, twice the solar, and a large inverter that can handle the start up surge, turned on and running 24/7 which effectively eliminates any savings by buying a 120vac dorm fridge vs a 12v compressor fridge.

My 800 watt MSW inverter would likely not be enough to handle the start up surge of a 120vac compressor dorm fridge, and it consumes 0.68 amps turned on, powering nothing.  Which over an hour period, is more electrical consumption than my 12v fridge consumes 85% of the time.

Someone here reported a brand of 120vAC dorm fridge which worked well on just a 300 watt pure sine wave inverter and was not that inefficient, but I do not remember the thread or poster's handle or brand of dorm fridge.

There is a question of how well a 120vAC dorm fridge will handle movement inside a vehicle, and one needs to implement a method to keep the door closed when driving.
 
200 watts should be a good choice for your needs. A pair of 6 volt golf cart batteries is your best bet. My Full River AGM golf carts were $250 each, but have served me extremely well.

I do think you would be better off mounting the panels on the roof instead of a suitcase system.
Bob
 
I would recommend at least 2 watts of panels for every amp of battery storage.I think a lot of people ruin batteries by no having enough charging amps.
 
The depth of the average discharge is a huge factor in what solar wattage/capacity ratio will be acceptable to the battery.

I have 198 watts and 90AH of AGM battery, more than 2 watts to one AH, and while it is enough to get my battery to absorption voltage ( 14.46v) and hold it there until amps taper to 0.4a(0.5% of capacity) most days, performance degrades without that occasional higher amp recharge when most depleted.

When the batteries are not discharged much below 80% then the high amp recharge on the AGM is much less necessary.

200 watts on 232AH of 6v GC-2 battery will only be enough if you never drop much below 75%. If you deplete to 50%, then there is no chance of 200 watts being able to restore 115AH in one day.

Any solar is better than no solar, but there is a sweet spot zone in the wattage/capacity ratio, and how deep one discharges, the battery type, and how much sunlight one can expect all play huge parts in ultimate battery longevity, and system reliability.
The availability of and employment of other charging sources also plays a huge part in what solar wattage/battery capacity ratio will be acceptable to the battery.

Consider that Trojan recommends a 10 to 13% charge rate, assuming one has a plug in charger and 8 to 12 hours to complete the recharge.

200 watts flat on the roof will yield about 13 amps max in summer, about 10 amp max in winter at 32 north.

10 amps on 200Ah of capacity is a 5% rate, and half of what Trojan 'recommends'

Rolls Surrette make the uncontested premier deep cycle flooded battery.

Their recommendation is even higher regarding the solar/capacity ratio.

The Rolls Surrette user manual is an excellent read BTW, especially for those that think they already know everything:

http://rollsbattery.com/uploads/pdfs/documents/user_manuals/Rolls_Battery_Manual.pdf

Regarding their solar wattage to battery capacity ratio, scroll to page 27


On page 29:
Batteries which are discharged should be recharged as promptly as possible. A
Renewable Energy PV system should be designed to provide a charge current that is
capable of recharging the batteries quickly, efficiently and within the window of time
when the system is generating peak power (peak sun). The charge current should be
within 10-20% of the 20 Hr AH rate (C20) rate of the battery bank



Of course you can get away with less, the unknown variable is how long you can get away with it, and will premature failure grind your gears? After a possible and 'likely' premature battery failure, will you bother seeking to upgrade in a hope to extend battery longevity the next time? If so, why not do it now, the first time? More expensive up front, much cheaper in the long run.

Having too much solar means batteries that are that much longer lived. Some people find having huge battery capacity as a buffer to be soothing. I'd find more solar for the same capacity more soothing, as charge rate is important.

My previous flooded battery I had downgraded to 130Ah of house capacity from 230, and got a better cycle/dollar ratio. When that 130Ah battery achieved ~ 470 deep cycles it was worn out, and I have never bothered to replace it cycling my AGM 'engine ' battery.

Well , the 130 Ah flooded battery is not quite done. I've put another 100+ cycles on it on it in my workshop with relatively shallow discharges, and for this duty, it is 'just fine'. Some others might even claim it is not only just fine, but still going strong too, perhaps breaking their arms trying to pat themselves on the back.
But the fact is it is severely capacity compromised and just waiting to short a cell. But it is still capable of being 100% recharged, it is just that when new it might have had 130Ah of capacity, now it only has 50 to 60Ah total and takes twice as long to get from 95% to 100%.
As long as I draw no more than 40Ah from it, it is 'just fine'
But in reality it could fail at any time with a shorted cell, and is anything but just fine, but ignorance is bliss, and enjoys company.
 

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