Chargers, converters, etc.

[Jmel]

Common misconception, false advertising.

No, no danger of explosion if FLA left open, and IMO wrt health, the smell will bother you long before any real issues, just increase ventilation while they're bubbling.

But to me a vented box is hardly any trouble compared to the rest of the build, so that's what I usually recommend for any lead bank.

I'm only going to put back 9-11a at a time with solar, so I wouldn't think they would bubble at all, or would they?

As far as a box, I've seen people put holes in the bottom to vent outside... I hope bugs and stuff wouldn't crawl in...

This could save me a big chunk of cash.

 

[John61CT]

Bubbling happens less with solar, so many people don't get even close to full.

But 100% Full is what you want for longevity.

If you're that worried, do the box, stress kills.

And screens exist.

 

[user 37446]

Bubbling happens less with solar, so many people don't get even close to full.

But 100% Full is what you want for longevity.

If you're that worried, do the box, stress kills.

And screens exist.

Just a question/comment: Lots of folks are concerned with FLA off-gassing, and while it happens, my question is really “how often” given that most recharging is done with solar (most all controllers limit the absorb and float to below 14.6, safely below the boiling points) or through the automotive side (again same thing, vehicle regulator won’t go that high).  The main concern I’d think is with the less expensive auto starting battery chargers which (according to SternWake), can vary considerably in their quality and thus overcharge (voltages above 15), yet that’s usually rarely an issue unless using shore power.

So unless you have chemical sensitivities, is it really a concern given that most vans are not a “sealed box”?

I’d favor the 2 golf cart type batteries for all the reasons previously given as compared to any single 12v battery, yet the OP has to start somewhere. One person commented something about a 200 amp 12v AGM, the weight, size and cost of that beast would be enormous!

Thanks to John61 and others for reminding us that old style converter-chargers don’t do a good job of adjusting charge rates (dumb) and thus should be replaced. Many deliver a constant 13.8 which rarely helps the depleted battery much.

TWIH

 

[John61CT]

> One person commented something about a 200 amp 12v AGM, the weight, size and cost of that beast would be enormous!


"Oh boy that vehicle engine sure is heavy and expensive" said no one ever.

For people with normal loads, you need what you need. A good ventilating fan, some lights, charging gadgets, all adds up fast.

Sure if you can't afford it, go cheap, but likely more expensive in the long run, like not being able to afford a bank account so use check cashing services.

IMO scrimp and save your pennies until you can get at least the minimal version of doing it right the first time.

2x 6v GCs are that AFAIC.

 

[user 37446]

Well, a diesel is quite heavy and a big extra cost in a van, ha ha.  
My reason for says that is getting the battery box to hold it, trying to lift and move it, as compared to the GC alternative battery.  

The good point for the huge 12 volt AGM is that there is very little voltage sag for heavy draw ac appliances through an inverter, like a microwave, coffee pot or the like.

To each their own.  I’d be really sad if I ruined a costly 200 amp AGM due to a newb mistake... 

 

[John61CT]

200A of deep cycling lead is going to be heavy, but many need 600 or 800 or even more. AGM or flooded, same problem.

Some vans can handle it, many of them are diesels.

If you're not strong then you get help, good quality, treated well, may not need to move for a decade or more, like getting a transmission replaced. Going to 6V units makes it a bit more manageable, bigger banks can go to 2V cells.

My main point is, people need to realize that the energy you need to affordably store for mobile daily modern living can't be picked up and carried around by most non-athletes.

It is a relatively permanent part of your conversion, and should be taken just as seriously as any other installation weighing hundreds of pounds.

The real solution to the inherent problems of lead chemistry batts is LiFePO4, but that's way more than most are willing/able to spend.

 

[rm.w/aview]

I agree and also want to thank forum members, present & past (SW), for the invaluable input. After considering personal power needs, I removed from my list a Progressive Dynamics Inteli-Power 9200 Series charger/converter, (see "LoveYourRV" on youtube), and instead went with a ProMariner 12/50 battery charger. Many chargers were initially on the list and I went with the ProMariner for the reasons stated in posts (thanks John), it fills my need, YMMV. I also traded two 12V parallel FLA for two 6V series AGM, again based on this forum as I knew nothing in this area a few months ago, so thanks again. To tsilb, you've come to the right place. You WILL received much help and guidance both here and across the spectrum of other threads in this forum.

 

[Weight]

I have six 6 volt EGC2 batteries in my van. In a box with vents to the interior of the van. A small muffin fan keeps the fume moving and I have no problems.
My charge controller will go to higher volts if the battery temperature is low. I just found this after panic from 15.1 volts, and calling MorningStar.
Holes in the floor will not work that well, hydrogen rises.
The Sam's club $89 GC2 are the smaller ones, 215 ah. I have the EGC2, 230 amp hour, from Batteries Plus and they matched the local Sam's price, $109 each. The manager waved the core charge as he had some extra returns. No membership costs. I see they now offer the big-uns, 255 ah.

 

[John61CT]

> I'm still not sure if you're saying two separate things, one to charge the batteries, and one to convert from AC to DC?

No, these days "converter" in american rv-speak is nothing more than what everyone else calls a charger.

Totally moronic is straight fixed voltage power supply, zero stages.

But even a plain power supply is fine if the voltage is right for your batt and you monitor the charge cycle yourself with an ammeter.

Smart enough for automatic hands-off charging is:

CC/bulk then CV at (user adjustable) Absorb voltage, then

(user adjustable) algorithm for determining Full, at which point

drop to (user adjustable) Float V.


Too smart is desulphating pulse nonsense, automatic conditioning you can't turn off, etc

 

[John61CT]

> In a box with vents to the interior of the van. A small muffin fan keeps the fume moving and I have no problems.

A passive solution would be an open design for the "box".

Protection from the terminals getting shorted is critical.

Protection from spilled fluid is a shallow tray.

IMO there is no need to enclose the batt, unless you want to vent to outside the living space.

 

[user 37446]

> In a box with vents to the interior of the van. A small muffin fan keeps the fume moving and I have no problems.

A passive solution would be an open design for the "box".

Protection from the terminals getting shorted is critical.

Protection from spilled fluid is a shallow tray.

IMO there is no need to enclose the batt, unless you want to vent to outside the living space.

Agree, shorting hazard is the key to cover the tops for. 
When properly wedged into the build those heavy batteries likely aren’t going anywhere. If you roll your vehicle you’ve probably got worse issues than the batteries leaking...  :s

I also agree that full time completely independent of shore power energy storage won’t be cheap or lightweight unless you are a minimalist power wise.

And yes, this forum will allow for a lot of free education that’s actually worth “a lot more than you paid for it”! 

 

[John61CT]

I would never take a chance on batts tumbling around in an accident, secure tiedown straps as important IMO as a non-conductive top cover.

PlusNuts in the floor if necessary.

 

[tx2sturgis]

I agree 100% on secure mounting for any heavy battery.

Four decades ago, I was 19 at the time, and I had been working on the battery under the hood of my big ol 4WD Chevy K5 Blazer.

I had to replace the hold down bracket because of corrosion on the threads, and left the battery sitting in the tray with no bracket...yeah...I'll get to it later. Or so I thought. Dumb teenager...well really, just lack of experience.

A few days later, I was in a hurry leaving a store, the weather was bad, I could barely see. I backed into a pole, the kind with a heavy concrete base I never even saw. Looked at the dent in my bumper...ok...and no damage to the pole. Get back in, drive off.

A week later the weather was nice, I turned on the A/C...air was not getting cold.

Hmmm....

Stopped, opened hood, then I saw it:

The battery had tipped rearward after the 'bump' and laid down, dribbling battery acid all over the A/C compressor and had eaten thru the freon lines. Also more corrosion damage to the frame and other parts down low. Of course the airflow from the engine fan had sprinkled my entire engine bay with acid....it was a mess!

Ouch!

Lesson learned:

Don't rely on gravity to hold a heavy battery in place...and especially not in the same area where YOU are sitting.

 

[Weight]

In my situation, it was easier to protect the battery terminals from a dropped anything spoon by building a box with a lid. It becomes a low table or shelf. Lead acid batteries must be anchored and spill protected and contained. The extra space required for plastic "battery boxes" did not meet my requirements.

 

[John61CT]

Yes, epoxy painted ply board, doesn't have to be thick, long as the batt itself is strapped down. Even a plastic tub upside down will do, just won't last as long.

Only make it sealed if you need to vent outside.

 

[heron]

Only make it sealed if you need to vent outside.

I made the opening for the bats larger to accommodate the two 6V GCs. They have virtually no room to move. They were higher than the originals, so made a top with needed height, and, like the original cover, added a gasket to it, and screwed it down tight, to hold it in place. It can vent downward, into the driver's side storage compartment, as its predecessors did. How often do I need to check them to see if they need water, please?

 

[Weight]

Check water often until you determine how your system is working. Mine get checked about 3 months. This includes checking the terminal connections with a multi-meter for voltage drop with a load. But I started by checking every week. The water added is dependent on the charging cycle. I add little water, now my solar is cranking. When first installed using shore power to charge, I added about 10 ounces to each battery after three weeks. That is when I started checking electrolyte level every week, until I determined the normal use. I do check the battery compartment often. I monitor the charging volts/amps every day.
Hydrogen is lighter than air and can accumulate under an un-vented cover. I like my small muffin fan that exhausts the battery box. Removes fume and keeps moisture from the connections.

 

[John61CT]

If the venting is such that there is any air circulation in and out the box I reckon unlikely H will concentrate enough to be explosive, but yes vents are better at the top.

Check your levels weekly to start, without topping up. If you go months with no need, top up then start checking monthly.

This assumes your charge sources Absorb holding time is adjusted properly.

If you never need to add water likely you aren't holding long enough